Winter Hiking

“I am going to be doing some winter hiking and backpacking this year. I am pretty well set up for 3 season backpacking, what specialized gear am I going to need for winter in the Northeast?
I have a 4 season tent, and I am going to be getting a Winter bag probably a -20.
What are your thoughts about a sled? Winter gear gets heavy and bulky fast.”

“hiking chick to go with you and let her be your sherpa and sleeping bag warmer.

no wonder I ain't got a girlfriend.”

“Like everything else, it depends.
Sled is good for trails as long as they are not too steep.

If you like peakbagging and/or go where ther is a lot of blowdown it will be easier to carry.

Sled means more comforts etc, packing is spartan on the comfort side because of all the necessities.

Another big difference is the availabilty of free water, if you have to melt snow you need to carry at least 2 quarts, 3 is better, and you need about 10oz of white gas fuel per day. Weight starts to add up pretty quick.

Have to have a white gas stove unless you are only doing overnight type trips.”

“Lthiker check the trips page for the Unca' Gremlin's Male Menopause Trip he has a good winter gear list posted in there. It’s for an extreme trip to the presidentials in winter. You may not everything in there.”

“One thing is that a 4 man tent and a winter sleeping bag need a pack much larger than I could use. I use a bivy sack unless I am sharing the tent packing with at least two others.

Manuka has it right; don't bring a water filter as it will freeze and crack. You have to melt snow and calculate the fuel.

I use a large, insulated cup for. I pour in the contents of my pouch, then boiling water, cover and wait for it to cool down enough to eat. Whatever you do, don't use a metal spoon.

The best way to learn is to get in with people who have some experience winter camping.

Good luck.”

“Get some good snowshoes dude I have tubbs and I love them they are 31 inch and they ROCK!!!!!



8)”

“I was checking out the MSR snowshoes, the exta tail for more weight looks cool, that way I could use them without a pack and add the tail when you need the flotation.

I think my first big items are going to be the winter bag, Synthetic or down? I think I am going to go with a 0* bag to start then add a synthetic -20 later in the year.

Then snowshoes and a winter parka, maybe crampons.

What I am looking for is the little stuff that makes winter camping more enjoyable. Like the insulated mug, it might even be good to have two of them one for food and one for drinks.”

“Snow peak makes good mugs dude check out some of there stuff.


8)”

“I use a synthetic Slumberjack bag because it's cheap (model 600 Quallofill rated to -30°F). It's bulkier than down, but 100's of dollars cheaper. I could probably get a 2 man 4 season tent into my pack with it, but I don't have one.

Most of the people I've seen with MSR snowshoes don't like their real world performance, especially with a heavy pack. I use the Atlas ones, but they're all good. I must say I don't like the new bindings on the Atlases. You need the large ones for the extra weight of your pack and gear, but they do tend to 'ski' on steep powder.”

“Campmor has some good deals going on Tubbs snowshoes right now. It looks like there last years models. I don’t know anything about Tubbs, but CMB says his rock.”

“I'm all about creature comforts for cold camp nights, which is why I almost always bring a sled in Winter. Other Winter camp stuff...

*Walmart carries HUGE insulated mugs by Aladdin - they are essential for every meal, IMHO.

*You can never have enough hot chocolate or handwarmers - you will be the *supahstahh* of the group.

*Always be sure to bring a thermometer for braggin rights. :)

*Down booties in campwill lead to trail-Nirvana

*pee bottle...just do it!

*a fleece liner will add 5-10 degrees of warmth to your bag. A Goretex Bivy will add another 10+, used as an overbag.

*pre-heat yer bag with a hot water bottle before bed

I am sure there are many other lil tips this group can share, but most important is this:

It is nearly impossible to get out of a warm sleeping bag on a frigid morn without a hot cup of coffee in hand...

>:D”

“oh yeah...Tubbs makes a great shoe. I've had mine for years (Adventure series) and I love 'em.
:O)”

“oh yeah...Tubbs makes a great shoe. I've had mine for years (Adventure series) and I love 'em.
:O)”

“Winter bag, a quality 0*F should be sufficient for the NE. I have a REI -20 house brand that if you measure the fill weight etc equates to a 0*F from Kelty or TNF.

Marmot, Feathered Friends (US), or Macpac or Fairydown (NZ look at the exchange rate) all have much better bags within a temp rating so a Marmot 0*F will probably be a lot warmer than a Kelty 0*F but will also cost 3 times as much.

When you go colder it is time to look at down rather than synthetic. Synthetic is heavier and bulkier, so at -20 you are looking at a LOT more heavier and a LOT more bulkier. Also at -20 there is no water to get the down wet, it is all frozen a long time ago. Synthetic is best in the +20 - +35 range where wet is a real risk.

and then snowshoes, agree.

Then a down jacket to put on under your existing raingear while stationary in camp. While hiking a triple layer of wicking base (polypro or equiv) fleece sweater or vest, and the raingear will be enough for almost all conditions while moving with a pack.”

“LT, There ain't much "Light" in hiking when it comes to winter camping, you may need to change your name!

These guys used sleds on FYAO 3 and they were bringing in everything but the kitchen sink (no, I think Pennsy had the sink...).

I backpacked in at FYAO 3 and suffered, But that's OK because being a bobo and I knew I would suffer anyway. (and the shelter was only 2.5 miles away)

Ya, with winter gear you've gotta get out of the lightweight mindset and start thinking compressability, which roughly translated is, how much #&%!$ can I squeeze in my pack to be comfortable?”

“LOL yeah well I sort of figured that ligtweight wasn't gong to work for Winter. I also don't want my pack weight over 100lbs. I hope the discount store has the work sleds theyhad last year I kicked myself for not getting one when I saw it.”

“The most important thing is to remember to have AmyG waiting with a hot cup of coffee for you before you get out of your sleeping bag.”

“A pack that weighed 100 + is a
pack for BBinkly!!!!!


8)”

“The TT elders don't buy sleds, they make their own!!! Check out AmyG and Pennsy's webshots - somebody has pictures of how to build a sled.

and if you're in the mood, make a sled for me too and you'll forever have a lifetime supply of Wild Turkey!”

“I like creature comforts, and I also like taking enough so that if I get snowed in somewhere for days I'll be OK. That's why I eventually built a sled, now I can carry all the gear I need more easily, and an added bonus is I don't posthole as much since all that weight isn't on my back.

Oh yeah, have to throw this in. I have a pair of MSR Denali shoes, and I have a pair of Tubbs shoes. I prefer the MSR's whenever I'm in a hilly area or steeper slopes. I believe they grip a little better than Tubbs. Both are good shoes, though.”

“I've been looking for a shovel to carry for winter backpacking. Any recommendations for a good lightweight snow shovel?”

“Wingding I have something called a "LifeLink", I honestly don't know if that's the name of the product, or the name of the company that makes it. There are two different models, they both collapse but on one of them when you pull the handle out of the shaft you have a serrated-edge knife for cutting thru ice / compacted snow. Comes in handy every once in awhile, I use it mostly for cutting large blocks when making snowshelters. I don't think it's really necessary though. They both weigh essentially the same, pretty lightweight, but I haven't weighed mine.”

“How often does it get to -20 in the Northeast?

If it ever gets that cold build a snow shelter.”

“Bacpac, we got -19 at FYAO...

Snow Shelter- thats my plan for FYAO IV. And I'll be testing that thery in the cats the month before.

Shovel- good idea, I am tankfull that pennsy had one for me to bum.

Tubs, I know artex had a rough time with them. I rented atlass 1025s from EMS for 20.00 for the weekend. And that 20.00 goes twards my purchas of snow shoes.

Amy can give you good advise on a light weight cannister stove for winter use. :-)

Booties are great. I got cheap ones from campmor, but I will upgrade to Mountain hardware this winter.

Go w/ down for a -20 bag.. It sure as hell anyt going to rain on you at -20 so you wont get wet.

get a Cock-warmer. Its like a sock w/ a sleeve for hand warmers. It keeps your junk warm.

Yes I agree w/ amy, she should bring me a hot cup of coffie next trip.”

“Tea check out the freathered friends booties.”

“I want the feathered friends booties.”

“I'm kinda partial to the warmest sleeping bag I can find. I also like getting OFF the ground with sleeping pads, thermal blankets & lean-to wood etc. (hate lean-to's in summer other than lunch & landmarks)The problem depends on how many nights you're going to spend in the woods. You put moisture into the bag when you use it & lower it's effective value. I compound that by usually pulling the bag over my head. So, I always bring a couple of those 4x6" chem heat packs & throw one in the bottom of my bag if needed. I always have one (un-opened) in my pocket all winter.(if needed). I like carbide tipped walking sticks in winter. I like crampons. Most trails & snowmobile trails are packed, so I don't need snowshoes. I do bring both snowshoes & crampons /ice axe for bushwhacking. I like rope/parachute cord. Parachute cord does deteriorate over time though. Most people dress too warm for winter hikes. I wear a very thin pair of wicking thermals. Most of the people hear have a fixed conception of cotton, but I've been wearing a 50/50 pair of cotton/synthetic pants for over 30 years & days of -20. I also like supplex & other synthetics only because they're lighter & wick better. I pack a pr of wind/rain pants. Heavy duty if I'm bushwacking. I always use gaiters. I like layering. I usually wear just a 300wgt fleece jacket & sweatband for headgear. I do however bring a heavyduty marmot goosedown parka for breaks in very cold weather. Usually I just bring a breathable solstice parka in my pack which doubles as heavy duty raingear in warm weather. I just wear my summer goretex hiking boots w/ 2 pr socks (up on snowshoes or hardpacked trail) but have brought snowmobile boots for COLD weather. These clodhoppers shorten my trip as do the use of showshoes. I do like igloo's, but not for thru hikes as they take a long wet time to make. They are VERY warm though.In cold weather it can be a BIG difference bringing the temp up 50 degrees in -20 or up 30 degrees in 0 weather. I like sunglasses too. I bring balaclava's & face/neck shields but rarely wear them. I probably bring too much with me in winter but then again, I like going alone & a mistake can be costly. Any trouble, I've EVER had in winter involved water. You can be crossing a gorge, stream or deep crevice & not know it. I'm EXTREMELY cautious around water.”

“Bring a water bottle insulator to keep your water from freezing up during the day while hiking.”

“And do not use platys or camelbacks (the hoses freeze)”

“The biggest hint I can offer is to not go out and buy a the wamest parka you can find. Five thinner layers are better than on thick one. The worst thing you can do while winter hiking is sweat, so you want to be able to manage your warmth level easily. So always wear many layers.

Also use glove liners. Keep syour hands somewhat protected when normal gloves make doing what your doing impossible.

Watch out when handling fuel too, alcohol can easily drop way below freezing, so if you spill it on your hand you can actually flash freeze your skin. Instant frostbite.

Ummm, that's all for now. I'll come up with some more when I have a chance, but now it's class time”

“Ice Tea- Cannister stoves don't work very well much below freezing, even if you sleep with them. They are fine when the cannister is above freezing, but it will eventually drop below freezing and you'd have to use your body heat to warm it before using it. I would suggest a liquid fuel stove.”

“Necessary winter gear - sled, down booties, chemical heat packs, pee bottle, and insulated mug.

I use two blue foam sleeping pads for extra insulation. I also cut 18" off a third pad and add that 18" to the bottom of my normal pads. I am 6'3" and I sleep much warmer if my feet are on the pad extension.”

“Don't forget matches.”

“Lots of good beta on this thread, but I do disagree with some of it. If you click on 'Freeze yer a$$ off III' and 'Freeze yer a$$ off III - The Trip Report Thread' you will get a link to photos. Look for Gremlin and you will see me and my pack.

Like Cap'n Bobo I hiked in and had an extremely enjoyable time with some very fine people. I was shocked, however, by the loads (gotta luv you Americans). Besides the AT skis which I cached at the Bear Pond lean-to, everything I had fit into or on my 4 500 cu. inch (75l) pack.

I carry my Nalgenes in insulated caddies, but this won't stop the water from freezing - you still need to melt snow.

I used a foot warmer once in my -30°F bag, but threw it out because it was uncomfortably warm. I put my Nalgenes in my bag to stop them from freezing, but the water is not hot, just warm from the stove that melted the snow. My El Cheapo, Quallofill Slumberjack bag does just fine.

IM(not so)HO, moisture is a real threat when winter campimg. Your sleeping bag will suck moisture from you body every night. This moisture condenses just under the EXTERIOR of the bag. Bags must be dried in the sun and a down bag takes a lot longer.

It is extremely important to avoid overheating (read layering and breatheable fabrics) and the use of a vapour barrier liner in your sleeping bag is absolutely necessary, but the bag will still need to be dried.

As Nessmuck said, 'Light but right.'

Tea, there is no such thing as a good canister stove for winter camping. White gas is necessary under 3 000 m altitude.”

“the only way to fly...as for sleeping bags...down may be lighter, but synthetic is better, again for the body moisture situation. I have a Wiggy's 0 degree bag...the moisture passes right through and I've NEVER woken up clammy or cold. I sleep only in my polypros and 1 pair of socks, silk glove liner and a think fleece cap. On any backpacking trip, I only take my 3/4" thremarest, and I use my jacket as a pad for my feet,or sometimes my empty pack.

I love winter camping...layering is the way, with a nice lightweight windbreaker for rest and camp.

I have used a "3 season" tent in the worst of conditions and slept warm and cozy...this year's new item is going to be the pee bottle, cause getting up at 4am, is not necessarily the most enjoyable thing. I have slept with my camelbak bottle to keep it from freezing, and yes...those tubes freeze up while walking, even with the insulated slip covers...the only way to keep from not freezing is to route it inside your clothing and keep it close to your body. remember...warm or hot water freezes faster than cold water. MY winter pack usually weighs in at40-45 lbs...comfort is essential and extra items may be necessary. I've snowshoed only once, back in the PA blizzard last February, it was nirvana!!!”

“Have I mentionned that these winter threads are making me HOOOOOOOORNY?”

“hiking season opens in 4 weeks...”

“Stikmon, were you dragging a canoe during that blizzard?”

“If you do use a down bag, be prepared to wake up an extra half hour to 45 min early. You need to roll it up and squeeze all the warm air out as soon as you get up, then reloft, pulling in cold dry air. Then leave it open and laying out, in the sun preferably to really dry. Then you can stuff it away. Oh yea...if it's real cold, you'll have to shake the frost off the surface of it first.
Last January I camped near Ely, MN on one of the lakes. Slept under the stars one night when it dropped below 0. Woke up the next morning with a bag covered in frost. Awsome experience.”

“I thought you were leaving TT.

No, I don't drag no canoes no more...I like to drag yo monkeyass down the river. LOL

your a big traveler...why don't you come to Big Bend this year...your single, do it man. Come show me how its done. backpacking and canoeing.”

“BB, Tehas? Hmmmm?”

“I don't say moisture in a bag will make you clammy, my point is that it lowers the bag rating on succeeding nights. If you're just staying overnight it is not a problem. When you stay for a week it can be. I LOVE those 4x6 chem heat packs. I have left my bag open in -20 weather in my -35 synthetic bag. I don't dry my bag in the sun. I'm usually up before the sun & on my way. I don't like camelbacks, but they do make an insulator for the hose. The mouth piece melts fast. I usually like half-finger gloves but will bring heavy duty gloves for really cold weather. I prefer going outside my tent to pee. One is there are no accidents & it helps keep the critters away. I like earplugs too. I've used 3 season tents & my biggest problem was high wind where it flattened & popped back up in the lull. (hard to sleep) Like most things....it's personal preference.”

“Some small items to add:

use only white gas stoves like MSR whipserlite, MSR Dragonfly, etc: compressed gas stoves just don't cut it in winter

have a base for the stove: a manufactured one, or a piece of plywood.

sleds are great. I pull mine wearing skiis, but I take snowshoes also. Pack your sled so if it rolls 50 times, nothing will come off, and cover it from rain and snow.

get a good down bag, and you'll never regret it. Its not the rating, its the loft. It will last 20-25 years of active use.

learn how to build snow shelters in 30 minutes. They sleep much warmer than tents.

unlike summer backpacking, in winter you can make things like a pit from which to enter your tent, a sitting bench around a campfire, a kitchen bench, surrounded by seats, etc.

Get ski poles with an avalanche probe built in.

Use only metal bladed shovels. The plastic ones may be guaranteed for life, but are useless in avalanche rescue, because the post avalanche snow pack is like concrete. The company may give you your money back if you break their shovel blade, but your buddy will be dead.

Get rescue beacons if you will be in avalanche country. practice useing them. test them before every trip.

follow the weather where you are going. not just the prediction, but also the history, so you will be able to assess avalanche possibility

Camp near hot springs - oops, you can only do that in Idaho, nevermind.

Bring a folding saw with a frame that forms a triangle with the blade, with a blade about 20 inches long, not the little ones that fold like a knife or a pruning saw. With a saw like that you can cut 8 inch logs, and form a platform to build a fire on top of the snow.”

“If you are going out for one or two nights, any good sleeping will do. If you are going out for a week or more, moisture starts to become a problem. A vapor barrier is one solution to that problem, and Warm-lite makes the best (and only) one I know if. They are pricey, but the customer raves mare pretty interesting. He also makes vapor barrier clothes, and tents. Warning: his catalog has nudity, as he and his family are naturists.

http://www.warmlite.com/”

“Backpacking season is all YEAR DUDE!!!!!!!!


8)”

“the cnister stoove thing is a bad joke”

“One sleeping pad will NOT insulate you from the cold ground/snow, so make sure you bring 2.

And don't say I didn't warn you!”

“Reconfigure your menus to contain lots of fat,in the form of butter usually. Butter in cocoa, butter in rice, butter in soups, butter in everything! Yummy!”

“Butter...I like that name.”

“Like a lot of he suggestions. Mine is stay with synthetic if you can (sleeping bags, clothes, etc.). My addition would be a simple synthetic jacket - great to pull on at rest stops, while waiting over evening meal to cook.”