newby backpack help

“Hi guys,I'me kinda new to this and need some help on a pack.My boys are into scouts and i'me helping out as a asst leader.I'me been using a blackhawk ruck and it's time for a change!I've been doing a lot of looking and this is what i'me down too.A Kelty tioga(4500ci),Dana Design teraframe T1(4100ci)or teraframe(5600).the Kelty is lighter,but the hip belt on the dana feels better.Is a 8lb pack to much?Also,am I a complete dork for going with an external frame?
thanks”

“Welcome,

8 lbs sounds a bit heavy, but then I haven't weighed my external frame pack in a while. I love my external frame pack because it fits me so well. Type of pack internal vs. external frame depends on the type of hiking you will be doing. Ya gotta go with a pack that works for you.”

“8 pounds sounds good to me, if it's got a sleeping bag and tent in it.

But, like stumprider says, you have to go with what feels right and works for you too. If the hip belt on one dosen't feel right in the store, it's not going to get any better 7 hours later with 30 more lbs in it.

Try as many different types/brands as possible before you buy. Maybe even rent for a couple of trips to decide between internal and external.

I took all my gear to the stores, put it in some packs and walked around for a while before I settled on the Osprey.”

“and bring all your stainless steel pots and pans with SS silverware, don't forget the thermos...


kidding...but not really, the larger the pack the more gear you will be tempted to bring. Stay small and think light. 30-40 lb pack is ok, 40 migh tbe a stretch if your not in good shape. but, backpackin will get you into shape, for sure. have fun.”

“Don't forget your trollin' motor...”

“Hey 3 gunner, welcome aboard. There are lots of fellow Alabamians on this board. I'm about 30 minutes east of B'ham. There are about half a dozen folks that are from the Huntsville area.

Personally, I'm into the lightweight thing and anything over 2#'s is a heavy backpack to me. You're going to be hauling an extra of everything for the scouts, so 8#'s may not be too heavy. You do a thread called something like "backpack help for scout leader" to see if it gets some of our scout leaders attention. We have a few on this board and they could probably better help your unique needs.

Welcome aboard again!”

“I haven't shop for a pack in decades, but 8 lbs does seem heavy. The only benefit I can see for you carrying a larger pack is to lighten the loads for those youngsters. Anything that would make it more enjoyable for them the better. Nothing will dampen their spirits more than hualing a heavy pack and of course rain. So shouldering some extra lbs's might be the thing to do.”

“If you'll be staying on moderate trails, the external is actually a better choice. There's gotta be something lighter than 8 pounds empty though.”

“oh man, I constantly trying to get my pack weight down, and just bought me a osprey because of that reason. Personally for me there will be no way I will put on a 8lb pack.

I know a lot of you think the weight of the pack is not the most important part.

I have the greogory lassen, I think the pack weighs around 5 lb 13 oz. It felt really good during one trip, but the next trip it killed my shoulders. Too much weight for me...

That's my 2 cents. I guess everyone what they can carry...and I don't want to carry more then 30 or 35 lbs total.”

“I have a Remington external frame that has to be somewhere around the 4 to 5lb range. I couldn’t tell you off hand how many cubic inches it is but I have never completely filled it (that includes the time I some how got talked into carrying an 18 pack of beer in addition to my gear, in it). If you aren’t backpacking over mountains with it on, I think an external frame is the way to go for someone new to backpacking. They tend to be cheaper than internals. The main thing to do is to try on different packs. Try to see if the store has weights to put in the packs so you can try them out loaded. Buy the pack that is the most comfortable for you. One nice thing about the externals is their shoulder straps and hip belt can be adjusted to fit your body. It may take a trip or so to get them positioned right for you. In addition if you find that the hip belt is uncomfortable after purchase, it is possible to change the belt with a different one.
Hope this helps.”

“Get extrenal frame. It's cheaper, you can hang more stuff off of it, and it doubles a stretcher when one of the scouts goes down.

And what violin said.”

“How-do 3gunner, Welcome to the funny farm. 8 pounds is a tad heavy, the question is do you have any back problems or otherwise? If your back is in good shape you don't have to worry about the weight as much as those who do have back problems.”

“8 lbs. is too much. I bought a Camptrails McKinley (6 lbs., external frame) when my son got into Scouting and have used it the last 13 years. It was pretty good for weekend trips because I could stay under 40 lbs and we never went very far with the boys (usually under 6 miles/day). However, for longer trips, longer days, or going off-trail the external becomes disadvantageous.

Now that I am out of Scouting, I go on longer trips, longer days sometimes, and off-trail (e.g. Sawtooth!!).

I just ordered a P-2 and it will ultimately save me 5 lbs. because of the lighter weight and built-in features. That savings along with some replacement gear will net me a 10 lb. reduction.

With the improvements in internal frame designs, I see no reason to buy an external frame pack anymore. If you are going to own only one pack, make it an internal.

I look back at Philmont and some other hikes where I started out over 50 lbs. Never again.

w.r.t. carrying stuff for the boys...check their packs ahead of time and don't let them hit the trail with heavy packs. We used to confiscate packs at the meeting before the hike so "Mom" couldn't add stuff at home.”

“8 lbs. is ok if the weight is from the fabric. It will need to be strong to carry all that beer.”

“Don't be a weight weenie. Concentrate more on the fit and construction then on the weight. My pack weighs in around 6 to 7 pounds, but I've comfortably carried in excess of 65 lb through the mountains in it. If you do have back problems, again, don't look at the weight so much as the suspension system. A few extra pounds is nothing compared to being able to transfer 90% of the pack weight off your back to your hips.
As for size, most gear stores have dummy gear that you can pack in bags to get a feel for weight/size of the pack when it's loaded. You need to figure out what length trips you plan on doing. Do you plan on going to Philmont with your son? If so you will need a pack large enough to haul several days worth of food and gear. I would say when in doubt go larger then you think you'll need. You might over pack once or twice, but you'll learn soon enough and you'll probably be glad you have the extra space eventually. Especially when hiking with scouts.”

“As you get older, the extra weight is harder on your knees and your feet. Start thinking lighter so you don't abuse them.

10 lbs. means a lot at 11,000 feet and 10% uphill trails.”

“I have to agree with Violin and Buddha Bear on external frames. I don't know how much my pack weighs, and 8 lbs sounds heavy, but I still use a 30 year old Kelty Tioga. ITs great for heavy loads, and I can't seem to get my weight for an overnight backpack down below 40 pounds.

When hiking with my family, I carry an extra sleeping bag, and all the food and kitchen gear for 4 people, and a tent for two, and an extra sleeping pad, which comes to more than 50 lbs for a weekend.

The old keltys have a good waist belt that forms a 360 degree wrap around cone shaped belt, and shoulder pads with very firm foam. The frame is eternal as well as external, and the nylon and zippers last 30 years so far.

If I were going to buy an internal frame pack, I'd think about a McHale, which is a custom made one designed to your anatomy. Its pricy, but my old hiking partner says its better than or equal to an external frame.

Good luck with the Scrub Sprouts, and have fun!”

“3gunner welcome to TT.....it has drama....laughter...and good info!!!”

“thanks for all the help!I can get any of the 3 packs i listed for $100.00.the Kelty weight is 6lb the dana t1 is 7lb1oz and the teraframe is 7lb15oz.the t1 has the same frame as the teraframe.the xtra weight is all pack.i hate to ask to much at a store if I am not going to buy from them.ala outdoors wants $185.00 for the tioga and over $350 for the dana teraframe.
I think i will go for the dana t1(4100ci) or the kelty.I'll just carry one 12-pack[:D]”

“them alabamians are crawlin out of the woodwork. any single southern bells wantin a good lookin, steady as he goes kind of guy...or just a weekend rumble in the sack??? I'm your cababna boy. Call me:
1-800-ridinthesack.”

“I can't believe that everyone is being so nice to this guy. What fun is it being in a clique if you don't haze the heck out of people silly enough to join???”

“You're right!

Hey 3gunner - how goes it in Trollville?




I feel a lot better.”

“3Gunenr: just make sure you get a pack that fits you. When its all packed and weighted, you should be able to hunch your shoulders, cinch the belt, unhunch your shoulders, and 90% of the weight of the pack should be on your hips. The belt should rest on the top edge of your hip bones, or if there is a depression in the middle of the belt, the depression should fit exactly on the point of your hip bone, the iliac crest. The shoulder straps should be spaced apart from the belt so that with the hip belt moderately cinched, the straps take 50% of the load comfortabely.”

“3gunner, sounds like your from north Alabama. I'm about 5 mile north of the Sipsey Wilderness. I am also a Scout Master. The kelty Tioga is the pack my son uses. ( 11 years old, 85 pounds ). One thing I have learned with the scouts is to keep their total weight to about 15% of their boby weight for 5 - 7 year olds. 20% for 10 - 16 yo, and 25% if they are in good shape. Most kids today are not in very good shape and to much weight will make them miserable. I use a camptrails ext. for some trips, but mostly a kelty redcloud internal. If I'm doing trail maintenance or something like that I carry the ext. For a more comfortable trip I will use the internal. Sometimes if its really hot I don't want the pack next to my back and will carry the kelty. If your near Sipsey, Its a great place to carry a bunch of scouts. I carry mine there often. Let me know if I can help.

BAMA”

“Thanks bama.
Troop 413,b'ham.we've been to the Sipsey two times.I like it a lotLooks like i get the Kelty,I called about the dana and they don't have my size.The kelty fit good,I just liked the hard contoured belt on the dana a little better.Well after the pack I just need a pad,stove,bag....nothing but money.”