Divorce Sucks

“Huge weight , yes. And you'll be up and down, IJ. Be happy for the ups. :-)”

“shuuuuut itttttt :-)”

“Why you telling lizs to shut it???”

“b/c she's a huge beeyatch! ;-D”

“I see. So........do you want to meet for drinks and tell me about how you go for guys that are no good for you?

I'll buy.”

“who said anything about guys? i'm talking in general, you pervert.
:-)”

“Nice analogy Geobeet.

WK, my back is getting better everyday. There's even times I forget about it. Doc says I can be back on the trail by March. I'm doing some very short dayhikes on flat ground now, but should be able to carry 25-30 pounds by March or April. Light weight BB here I come.”

“OK. I have a good female friend who you should meet. We'll both meet you for drinks, K?

Although, we should clarify who is the "pot" and who is the "kettle".”

“LOL!”

“my good friend is going thru a divorce right now. they're late 20's and were married 3 years. looks like if she never remarries then she gets half of his 401k.

half of his 401k for 3 years!!!

my g/f of 7 years said - F-that, if i was a guy i'd never get married either!

i guess there's no pressure on me anymore”

“sacco, he should check with his lawyer. State rules may vary, but here she would only be entitled to half of what is vested at the time of seperatin. Also it is only the amount now that is split and not what it matures at. Also only the amount that was contributed during the marriage is counted, but they're young so its probably all of it. I doubt that after only three years he's vested more than 40%-50%”

“Besides, she will probably marry again. I thought it was 10 years, anyway.

It doesn't matter to me, I've been married 14 years, so I might as well keep her, lol!”

“Plus how much was the 401K? It probably had to do with other factors such as offsets of other stuff. Like division of house equitey, division of debt, and a whole host of other considerations.

I have never learned to be appalled by the circumstances and detials of someone's divorce unless you know the entire picture. There are so many considerations.”

“if both had 401K plans did he get part of hers..I doubt it”

“he's got a lawyer, i guess that's right, half of what was contributed during their marriage, (he's worked there 8 years so he is 100% vested) but that think it includes the maturation amount - which should be quite a bit by the time he retires!

she'd better marry again. if it was me, i'd be one cupid-playing-S.O.B.”

“exactly ewker.
last edited: 11/18/04 2:55:03 PM”

“How's it going Ruby?

Look forward to hiking with you sometime next year John!”

“Geez, guys, you shouldn't jump to conclusions like that. Maybe she didn't have a pension. Maybe she did. Maybe she took on a greater portion of the debt. Maybe he got other assets. You really should judge a person's circumstances from a divorce unless you know the WHOLE ENTIRE picture. And I get really sick and tired of hearing how the men always get screwed and the women walk away with everything. I worked in divorce court for five years and with seven different judges. I personally sat in on thousands of divorce cases. I can't think of a single case where the woman "made out" and was better off than the man when you considered the totality of the circumstances.”

“And I second what WoundedKnee said. I look forward to hiking with you, too, John.

And WoundedKnee, want to have lunch again soon? I need to return your bag to you before I forget.”

“Geez, guys, you shouldn't jump to conclusions like that. Maybe she didn't have a pension. Maybe she did. Maybe she took on a greater portion of the debt. Maybe he got other assets. You really should judge a person's circumstances from a divorce unless you know the WHOLE ENTIRE picture. And I get really sick and tired of hearing how the men always get screwed and the women walk away with everything. I worked in divorce court for five years and with seven different judges. I personally sat in on thousands of divorce cases. I can't think of a single case where the woman "made out" and was better off than the man when you considered the totality of the circumstances.”
Ruby
5:26:58 PM
11/18/04

Nothing personal but I wouldn't expect anything differently to come out of you. 90% of men get the shaft in divorce cases. Times are very slowly changing but the woman still makes out quite well from a divorce.”

“Where in the world do you get that figure of 90%? Can you back that up with proof?

And Ewker, besides your own, how many other divorce cases have you sat in on and heard from start to finish ALL the facts and circumstances before deciding what was fair and judging that someone was getting the shaft?”

“that i would like to know, because my ex sure didn't pay a penny.”

“Ruby, I have no proof on the 90% but you can't prove I am wrong either. Yes you sit in and and do your job but you don't hear everything that goes on in the lawyers offices either. A lot of decisions are made there that never makes it to court.

Take a poll on here and see how many think a man gets the shaft in divorces. There is a wide variety of people that come from all different walks of life. That should give a good example. It may not be 90% but it be up there.

Gemini, I am not talking about child support if that is what you are referring to. I believe a man should have to pay for his child/children just not to the point he has nothing to live on.

off to watch Survivor”

“Ewker, using the logic you employed in your first paragraph, then I can grab a number out of the air, let's say 5%, and make the claim that 5% of the men get shafted in divorces, and then say, I must be right because you can't prove I'm wrong. That logic makes even less sense than your original statement.

I challenge you to take a poll, not of men, but of anyone who has gone through a divorce. I am willing to bet that over 90% of men AND women AND especially children think they "got shafted" in some manner or another. It seems to me that your original statement is quite subjective.

And guess what? I DO know what goes on in attorneys' offices. Of course I don't know what has happened in every single case, but I have a pretty good idea. For one thing, I, too, have gone through a divorce. And secondly, now my job requires me to go to hundreds of different attorneys' office every day and sit in on depositions and mediations and arbitrations. Thirdly, I know divorce law pretty darn well for a non-lawyer. And I have also been privvy in a way most people have not as to how cases are decided from a judicial point of view. I know how a judge weighs all the evidence with which they are presented and how sometimes they struggle with decisions. I know how a judge can only make decisions based on the facts that have been presented to them and based on the law. They cannot deviate from that. I know what happens off the record and in chambers. I know from firsthand experience that almost every single person I have ever seen walk out of divorce court was ticked off about the end result. I bet that percentage of people who are convinced they were "shafted" in their divorce is more than 90%.

Heck, I wasn't happy about aspects of my own divorce, and I feel like my ex screwed me. But I'm not whining about it. No one forced me to make a bad choice about who I married in the first place. No one forced me to go through the process of my divorce in the manner I did. I accept that my life is a result of choices that I make. I HATE it when people whine about how they are victims when usually they are right where they put themselves.

Okay. I'll take a breath and get off my soapbox now.”

“did you miss where I said take a poll on here!!!

you remind me on my ex mother in law. she thought she knew all about medicine because her husband was a Doctor

BTW I never brought children into it. yes they are the ones that end up suffering more.”

“unfortunately men still make more money than women for doing the same jobs”

“How f ing depressing, I'm outa here.”

“Lets see, one week after a romantic 20th anniversary wkend away...the ex patted me on the shoulder and said..Ive changed my mind..Im not happy...bye bye.... and left me with the kids and ALL our bills...he kept changing lawyers and I was stupidly still so emotionally dumbfounded I was TOO NICE...My lawyer SUCKED big time...screwed up my paperwork...gave in to his high priced (final) lawyer..etc, I had to get another lawyer who cost a bundle of $$. I put HIM through College...my family helped pull strings and get him the good job he still has and he never had to pay a mortgage cause we lived in one of my mom's houses. He insisted I be a stay home mommy and PTSO president etc. to help further his career socially..Finally got through college...(I paid from part time job) and got to work...so I didnt have THAT much invested in pension.....now he has bought the new 12 yr. younger wife a new house. Oh yeah...he told the kids on Mother's Day this year that he had just gotten married 2 days before and they had a new step mommie...(sigh, I was at that moment at the hospital with my mom who had a heart attack) HAPPY MOTHER"S DAY!!... BUT.....thank God he left ...best thing he ever did.”

“Geez..sorry...it just all bubbled back up....I am happy now REALLY!!!!!!!!!”

“Note to self:
Get flowers for Treebait more often.”

“Forget the flowers, get her the book "101 nights of Greeeeaat sex" by Laura Cane. Way better than flowers. =D”

“That is a great book ;~)
I think flowers are mentioned once or twice too.”

“There are extremes on both sides. I have an 18 year old son that never got any finacial or emotional support from his father - who got the shaft in that situation?”

“I guess I'm trying to say that while we're trying to hurt each other we should make sure that we're not also hurting the ones we are supposed to protect.”

“Life without my wife and children would quickly become quite meaningless, anyway. Just can't see it. If my family fell apart, it wouldn't matter what assets were transfered. It can all go. Meaningful work, career, and aspirations probably wouldn't make a lick of difference either.

Life is too short to squander the most valuable relationships that are entrusted to me. Being a reliable husband means being a good friend and more. In all my shortcomings, or failures, there's commitment and a vow. A covenant to keep.

I believe the covenant of marriage is in place to hold things together when there's a falling out. Abuse is one thing, but selfcenteredness is a poison that kills marriages too often. If it happens for reasons beyond your control, I would imagine the only thing to do is to keep things quite simple and start over.

Here's a musical piece that gets at this thinking. You have to know Italian, LOL. But it's fun reading through it.

Per te, per te, vivrò
L'amore vincerà
Con te, con te, avrò
Mille giorni di felicità
Mille notti di serenità
Farò quello che mi chiederai
Andrò sempre dovunque tu andrai
Darò tutto l'amore che ho per te

- or -

For you, for you, I’ll live
Love will win
With you, with you, I’ll have
A thousand happy days
A thousand peaceful nights
I will do anything you ask me to
I’ll go everywhere you go
I’ll give all the love I have for you

”

“ewker, your stating your personal opinion as fact doesn't make it true. i'm sure there are many divorces where both sides felt they were getting the shaft. polling those that went through it won't be any more accurate than making the claim yourself. its too bitter of a situation.”

“tekdude...do you know italian?
I used to speak a little while in Germany but forgot most of it. I have this great song, but I am not sure who sings it or what is said. I am guessing by understanding bits and pieces, but that's it. :)

just in case someone can translate:
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/gemelli-diversi-mary-lyrics.html
last edited: 11/19/04 6:20:26 AM”

“I've been married to the same awesome gal for the last 20 plus years and ain't tired yet nor am I gonna be. Sometime things happen for a reason. Sometimes things just don't work out for what ever reason. My brother has been married three time and has been taken to the cleaners two outta three time. But then again he keeps trading to a younger model.”

“I'm sorry to each of you who have gone through struggles. So many of us can empathise, myself included.

And I commend each of you who are in a marriage in which you both appreciate and love (the verb) each other. That is, after all, the way it is supposed to be.

Sass, that is a great book! Some day I'll buy it again when the time is right.”

“Ruby, thanks for speaking out.

But watch out! >8-O That sweet lil sock monkey Lyra will call you a beeyatch when you're not around. LOL!

The horror! The horror! >8-O










LOL! ;-P”

“I'm confused.

Lyra is a sock monkey?”

“Ok Ewker I'll be the first example of someone who is making out better than my ex.

However, I don't feel sorry for her because this was her decision”

““Forget the flowers, get her the book "101 nights of Greeeeaat sex" by Laura Cane. Way better than flowers. =D”
Sassafras
8:59:22 PM
11/18/04


Forget the book, you'll get way more mileage out of the video.”

“My former brother-in-law”

“And WoundedKnee, want to have lunch again soon? I need to return your bag to you before I forget.”
Ruby
5:28:07 PM
11/18/04
ignore this user

Big time on lunch, pick day and where you want to eat. Don't worry about the bag. I will not be using anytime soon. Besides, I know where you live.”

“Hey, is that stalking? lol...”

“Would y'all please stop gettin' divorced it's ruinin' the mood.”

“Ewker,

I agree with what others have said-- you put a huge generalization on the Divorce issue and the concept that only "men getting shafted". I personally know of 3 cases where the WIFE got shafted...

1) My friend who was married less than 2 years and got a divorce-- her husband asked for the divorce the day he got a job with benefits AND he told her he had already pawned his wedding ring when she asked about what to do with it...

She currently is a special ed teacher and has put away a lot of money on her own AND is a single mom-- he, on the other hand, would constantly not show up for visitations, or make other excuses. He has never had a full-time job for longer than a few months, and the only way my friend could get any support for her son is by having hs (meager) wages garnished. She has had sole custody and has done everything to make sure her son is properly fed and clothed. (She is very frugal when it comes to herself--she's had the same car for years and one time I bought her a winter coat because the one she had started to get quite ragged!) Her ex is now on "disability" because he has "anger control and management issues".... he hasn't had more than a minimum wage job (despite a college degree) since he was married. He has basically not visited his son in months...

2) My aunt, who worked as a computer consultant and paid for 95% of her house, and money to put her 2 children through private school and then university and now med school.... She divorced my uncle who since 1976 has been unable to get a job in accounting (his college major) because of "the bad economy".

Give me a break!!! My aunt paid for almost everything they had during their marriage!
He currently works PART-TIME teaching German through Berlitz at about $6.50 an hour in CALIFORNIA. He gets up every morning to "row crew"....

She should have divorced him 10 years ago, but didn't get the strength to do it until this past year. Sad thing is that he still lives at her house (in the basement) because she pities him-- she knows that if she were to put him out, he'd be pretty much homeless....

Don't tell me that HE got the short end of the stick there! She STILL is paying for him to live under HER roof-- he has absolutely no ambition and has never contributed more than a pittance towards the raising of his children.

3) One of my best friends is currently going through a divorce. (He asked for the divorce, but it was also kind of mutual.) She came to the marriage with a house & 9 acres of land (and a horse and dog). PLUS, she put her husband (7 years younger) through college (which he barely graduated). During the course of the marriage, she has ALWAYS had the higher income, yet she doesn't have a "designer house" or anything like that...

Currently, he is fighting tooth and nail to get either joint or sole custody of the kids, because he now has to pay child support and he never realized how much it cost to raise 3 kids! PLUS, he is going after her house and 401k....

(Oh, and while they were married, he just went out one day and bought a delapidated "cabin" for $10,000, WITHOUT consulting her! The cabin is a complete liability-- the pipes burst one winter--he can't (or won't) fix them because he let the insurance lapse.... the roof leaked like a sieve, the concrete slab is cracked and heaving, just a complete mess! (It's located in an area where the neighbors let their cabins go as well.) Yet, he won't sell it to split the cost between the 2 of them--but he is perfectly content in keeping that money on the debt that he racked up during their marriage.

He also convinced her to put something like $30,000 (mostly on credit cards and then into an equity loan!)..into building an addition to the old house, however, to this day, the room isn't finished-- no banisters on the loft or stairs, no trim, ceiling has cracks because he and his idiot brothers screwed up the taping and mudding of the drywall, etc.... He is currently trying to get the appraisal for the house to be way over the actual market value-- because he wants HER to fork over the dough... because his name is now on the house... and he came to the marriage with pretty much his clothing.... Personally, I think it's a real crock of crap....

He's never made even close to her salary (he basically does farm research, she works for the state.) However, during their marriage, she never had more than a few dollars in her pocket, because he wanted to control their money....

***************

In these instances, I don't think that there is or would be anything wrong with expecting the ex husband to help contribute towards the raising of the kids and other expenses... In each case, the husband gave squat during the marriage in contributing towards the raising of their children (both monetarily, and also in the case of the child-rearing aspect.-- all 3 of the men (and I use the term loosely) didn't want to help in child-rearing, they did little to help parent their children both mentally, physically and monetarily... and NOW they want to get a bit of the money action after they are divorced?! I have no pity on these guys!

Sorry for the long post, but this subject really makes me mad when at least 3 of the examples that I have seen have NOT been in the wife's favor....(and I'm not including other situtations!)”

“I can add another 4 examples of women getting the raw end in a divorce.

My stepmom when she and my dad split, she got $10,000 and no slice of his pension even though she "raised" us for 10 years. I am not unhappy about this as she was evil.

Sass' aunt got it big time when she got a divorce years ago.

My mom got it way big time in 3 out of 4 of her divorces. One was so bad that all she got was her car and the three sets of clothes she had from the cleaners in the car. In another divorce she got all of her x's debt since he aquired it on joint accounts, he went bancrupt faster, she lost. When she and my father split she got zero too. She lost her kids (my dads quote was,"you'll get them over my dead body"),she had it so rough she was hospitalized for 5 months. Its really cool to visit ole moms in the psych ward. Its an antiquated notion that woman screw men over.

Ruby's word carries far more credit and legitimacy simply because she is around divorces (or was) for years. Her experiences ceratinly outweigh any singlwe incident anyone one of us has experienced.”

“yeah, and I can add one for sure.”