lighter thermarests

“you try it first”

“Daaaang. You like the pricey goods!!!”

“i'd go for a shorter one. but i'd like it a little wider.”

“Price is totally out of control.”

“Talked to 3 different Outfitters in the last 2 weeks and all say they cannot keep them on the shelves and today MRO in Damascus (Jeff) said they have sold out as fast as they set them out and they just ordered 22 more. Seems like they are selling fast and the prices has dropped off too.....I have 2 now and for a 3 season pad they are very comfortable. light and small. BEST PAD all around for a 3 season pad.”

“I was able to use my small for four nights over on the Lost Coast with some fine folks from NorthCA Hiking, a Yahoo group, a few post here now and then.

First couple nights, definitely a difference using it on the postitive side. I sleep very poorly anywhere. The first two nights, one at Richardson Grove, waiting to begin our trip, I fell asleep faster, slept a little longer than usual. Meaning, I woke up after 1:00 AM, and fell back to sleep which usually takes another hour or two. I tossed and turned three or four times, where I usually roll from one shoulder to the other 10 or twelves times maybe when I have to roll due to pain. I topped the pad off before retiring as hot air cools when inflating this pad quite a bit. I noticed all four mornings, that the pad is deflated/softer quite a bit from the previous night, not sure if it is all cooling of the air that was used to inflate it. The last two nights, I was not as comfortable as the first two, but still better off then when I use my Thermarest LE, 3/4 pad which weights 27 ozs. versus the 9 oz. for the small NeoAir. I notice the pads is softer in the morning by about five of the tube rows, if you want to call them that. I can lay with two arms on the pad to get it back to close to the evening firmness as an illustration of its morning volume. To roll it back to factory packaging configuration takes a few steps. I open the valve, roll from the bottom, making flat folds, then when I have the pad getting firm again, lay on it or use my arms to roll the air out, then repeat. I could go on but you get it. A procedure to get it folded back up, the only other negative besides the price. If you have shoulder/hip issues, this should help, if not, you are going to be tickled with its weight and comfort. Since I work out of town, I want to try something this weekend when I get home. I want to get the air temp in the pad stabilized then put some weight on it to check for leaks, or do this in a tub to check for leaks.”

“somehow this doesn't sound like a very promising report. i use the shorter thermarest prolite 4 for backpacking; is it better than that or not?”

“I agree with you pamma.. For $150 the thing better self inflate, regulate to room temperature and have coffee going when you wake up in the morning...

Not only that, but it's a three season pad... meaning once it gets cold... well i'm sure the $250 four season pad isn't far behind..

I guess if you can afford every piece of equipment known to man, or if you can somehow pick up one for free, its worth it... but to me, i'll take the $10 walmart foam, cut it down, and sleep on that.. It hasn't failed me yet, and I can use the $140 that I saved to buy hootch..

'32oz”

“You bought 2 @ one hundo fifty ea? Omg you are worse off than I thought!

It is an AIR MATTRESS people!”

“I thought I would give this new mattress a try because I currently use a Big Agnes sleep system which includes an air mattress. There are two reasons that I decided to give it a try-one, I felt like I was getting cold with the Big Agnes mattresses, including the one designed for 0 degrees and two, weight. The big Agnes air mattress 0 degree weight is 2 lbs 6 oz compared to NeoAir 14 oz.
The mattress has a textured finish on it to prevent falling off. It also made it difficult to insert into the Big Agnes sleeping bag sleeve. I found it was easier to insert the air mattress deflated first and then inflate. The mattress was about the same effort to inflate as the big Agnes mattress. The NeoAir Mattress does have a crinkly sound to it, but once inflated it didn’t seem to be a problem. I did stay warm with temps in the upper 30’s,low 40’s and felt that it did as good of a job and maybe better than my other mattress.”

“i bet it could be somewhat warmer because the neo air design is "box baffled" versus other pads that are essentially sewn-through.

which big agnes do you have? the air core mattress is 22 oz for size regular.

i don't think i buy the whole heat-reflection thing because conduction and convection are FAR greater sources of heat loss than radiation. think of it this way... how much warmer would you be sleeping on just a space blanket vs directly on the ground?”

“I have a air core that is 22 oz and I have a dual core which is 38 oz. I was comparing it to the dual core because of the warmth factor. As far as the difference between the space blanket vs directly on the ground, wouldn't the air play a part in it. Aren't you reflecting the warm air back to the body?”

“The first night out sleeping on the beach, John in the tent next to me had a BA bag with the pad sleeve and insulated pad inserted into it. Do they all squeak that bad when you move?”

“I haven't had a problem with them squeaking.”

“windi, air is a terrible insulator. that's why we put insulation in the walls of our homes... at least some of us do. is saw inside my walls for the first time and now i know why this house (built in the 70s) is so cold in the winter!

there are only three mechanisms for heat transfer: conduction, convection and radiation.

convection and conduction are the two most backpackers ward off. convection is addressed with tents, sealed sleeping bags, draft tubes, and down insulation. sleeping pads are primarily focused on conduction (laying directly on the cold ground).

of the three mechanisms radiation is the LEAST efficient by far. you lose almost all of your heat in the form of convection and conduction.

here is another way to think of this. if you get cold how much warmth do you get from another human being by simply standing next to them? in that scenario there is little convection, some conduction (through the air) and i would be shocked if you could feel any radiation although it's certainly there.

so i don't buy the neo air story on capturing radiated energy to keep you warm.

...but i will say that the design where there are no "thin spots" (baffled construction) is very innovative and i think would be the majority of the difference between this pad and pads like the big agnes. it prolly makes it more comfy as well which is really important in a sleeping pad.

i REALLY look forward to trying one out but i certainly can't until they get less expensive or i go camping with fridge. lol!”

“I bought 2 because of a hugh discount I get.
I own every pad Thermarest makes and every sstove MSR makes as well as MountainHardware Tents...all of them. Damn right. I own em because I can own them.”

“Yogisan If you want one I can get you a 40% discount on any size. Or If you want to try one free let me know cause I know them Cascade folks well.”

“What you say makes sense. I will say, I stayed warm and it was comfortable. It weighs less, so I'm happy for now. At least till some other new piece of gear comes along. lol
I am a gear whore and I'll admit it.
last edited: 4/29/09 2:57:56 PM”

“you are a good man fridge and one hell of a crack dealer.

windi, what's important is that it works for you. sometimes these things don't yield to analysis. i studied the hard sciences in college so everything equates to process, terminology and numbers... but not everything breaks down that way. i don't mean anything when i go technical on this stuff. it's just how i view the world. i live to figure out how/why things work the way they do. i can't resist a problem.

one of the appeals to me of climbing is the combination of things you can't break down (fear, mental barriers, the idiosyncrasies of your partner, etc) with raw discipline and empirical process. there is always a new challenge and you never really solve the problem. you just keep refining your approach.

backpacking is much the same way. there are so many vectors one can use to approach backpacking, each as unique as the fingerprint of the backpacker. i have been privileged to hike with many TTers and no two do things the same. it's very much an expression of your approach to the wilderness. some do it all out of wal*mart, others do it all out of REI, some go in ultralight and others try to overcome the wilderness with a ton of gear and technology.

it's ALL good... :)”

“well said and I don't do crack.
I ordered the 25 inch Long sells for $159.00 and a Thermarest bag sells for approx 14.00 all for under 100 bucks....Who wants one?
last edited: 4/29/09 4:14:33 PM”

“What Fridge said. Yogisan - I always enjoy talking with you because of the way you like to figure things out.”

“Uncle fridge, call them people at cascade an dtell them ill try one for them, for free.A long please. Yo bear!”

“What width?”

“like I said... if the discount is huge enough, its worth getting.. but to fork out $150 for a 3 season pad....

unfortunately not all of us get 'huge discounts'......

'32oz
last edited: 4/29/09 5:40:13 PM”

“i didn't say i didn't like that pad, just not at that price. connections count too and if fridge is offering then scoop one up if you want it. some day they will go on sale or i'll have a 20 pct coupon at rei or i'll find one in a returned item bin. gear has a way of finding it's way into my closet.”

“Opinion, I like the puncture resistant pad the best, light weight, puncture resistant, insulated.....”

“I would like to test out that puncture resistant claim in the Grand Canyon this October! Lol! That place eats inflatable pads for lunch. I would prolly wind up sleeping on the ground all week after the first night! Last year was the first year I didn't lose one because I brought a blue foam pad to sit under the inflatable. I was so dog tired after each day of that brutal trip I could have slept on about anything. Just laying down was major. Great week.

ALL air mattresses are "puncture resistant". They wouldn't be much good if they weren't.

I have always found Thermarests to be good in this regard. I had a "Torsolite" pad from Boseman Mtn Works I was in love with for about a year that was supposed to be tough and that thing got leaks from sleeping on pine needles. Terrible.”

“uncle fridge 20 inch regular length 5 ft!”

“Yogisan you are so full of #&%!$....Hell your boots could even blow a seam duhuuuu. Hell maybe you need to sleep like a BAT.

This pad I have owned for 3 years and never failed on any terrain even your razor sharp rocks you profess to be so sharp. Use your head and you won't have a problem.
http://cascadedesigns.com/Therm-A-Rest/Mattresses/Trek-And-Travel/ToughSkin/product

Reliable Comfort: Even if the mattress is punctured, it continues to provide as much warmth as our ProLite™ Plus (3.2 R-value).
Here Yogisan now add this to your brain.”

“i'm not sure fridge, but i think you are misinterpreting what yogisan is saying.
last edited: 4/30/09 3:25:29 PM”

“Nope I totally understand him.
He has all the answers. all Bull chit”

“http://cascadedesigns.com/Therm-A-Rest/Mattresses/Trek-And-Travel/ToughSkin/product
His quote/
ALL air mattresses are "puncture resistant". They wouldn't be much good if they weren't.
The pad I was talking about is posted above and no chit all pads are some what puncture resistant, but this pad supersedes all of the Air Inflated ones.”

“WAM! whatt about me!”

“then let me say "i'm not sure fridge, but i might be misinterpreting what yogisan is saying".”

“Jerbear you have mail !!!”

“the10essentials.com/index.html

20% 0ff and free ship and no tax.
last edited: 4/30/09 3:46:56 PM”

“actually i use a hennessy hammock now so in a way... I DO SLEEP LIKE A BAT!

i clear my nose in your general direction you tiny person sleeper on other people's ground.

and that's from one bull chitter to anuder...”

“LMAO at you man...I also have a Hammock. I live 3,500 ft elevation and you are much closer to sea level so drink up.
last edited: 4/30/09 4:02:32 PM”

“silly boyos!”

“i was sucking wind big time in co last year. we sea level dwellers are at a disadvantage... but nothing a 150 air mattress wouldn't fix. i could use it to pack supplemental o2 from my home state into the hills.”

“Goofy basturds, all of ya! I'll use my 3/4 ridgerest and a suplemental blue pad in any weather! I'll sleeplike a baby, and carry less weight than the best inflatable pad money can buy.”

“there you are again!”

“here i is... and here i go.”

“hi-ho hi-ho”

“Well, I checked for the tiny leak in my small last night. Pop! I filled up my bathtub and had to push the pad under the water of course, not that easy of a task. I was finally able to see the leak, went to get a pen to mark the spot, could not get it to show when I returned. I went and got a short board, pushed down on the pad, working from one end to the other and repeated with the other side. On the reverse side, I could hear the slight pssst, but when I flipped the pad back over, could not locate it, even where I knew it should be. Repeat, same results. Finally, I stood on the board, seems lots of pressure was needed to create the leak. With the side with the suspected pin hole facing down, I could hear it again, so by lifting the pad from the end slowly, I was able to see the stream of bubbles coming out. While grabbing my pen and pulling the pad up to see where the hole was so I could mark it, all of a sudden I heard a gurgling noise, big burst of bubbles, what the heck? It took a couple seconds to realize that I had not hit the drain and water was draining out, I had burst my pad. Bummer. I found a 3/8" tear, "v" shaped tear about half an inch from one side. $119, this ain't good!

From what I can gather, if a leak ever develops on the trail, it is going to be a beach to find the leak and repair it. I had the pad inflated as much as I get it, had to then create a lot of pressure to replicate the leak. On the up side, the tiny leak I had, still enabled me to get a good rest at night.

While waiting for my phone line to let me get here, I was thinking that this is a piece of ultralight gear that you take your chance with in regards to longevity, for the benefit of loosing weight.”

“my condolences on your loss.

i have had very small, slow leaks in pads that were hard to find. the scenario you describe where you find it and then can't find it again after you go to get a pen to mark it is one i have lived more than once.

what did you decide to try and patch the leak with had you been able to patch it?”

“www.mcnett.com

UV aqua seal....”

“Thanks Mike. The Tough Skin pad sure is heavy though. I'll see what Thermarest has to say if a repair is possible. I'll email Customer Service instead of Sales, since Sales has no idea what a NeoAir is.

The Aqua Seal sounds like good stuff. Amazing how it works.”