Do you think LNT should be a mandatory course ...

“before heading out to bp or canoe trip.Some Parks in Ontario now have a mandatory course you have to take before heading out into the back country.Other Parks are now inspecting your packs before you head out.Good idea?

We`ve all encountered camping sites that look like the town dump.
A few years backa few of us were out on a 3 day trip when we came across a campsite littered with beer bottles,whiskey bottles and coolers.They were left lying aroud the campsiteand there food bag was tied from a branch about 3 feet directly over their tent.This is in a park where bears have killed people!!!!!.Over the years I`ve carried pounds of waste from the interior,I`m sure you have to. I`ve seen people dump leftover food behind their tent because their to full to eat it.In Haliburton we arrived late at a campsite and when looking for a good spot found Fish guts and heads lying within twenty feet of a tent. We checked the kitchen area and found frying pans with sausage grease still in them.My friend and I moved on,and gave the gang a good lecture on safety and camping in bear country,but as usual your met with blank stares or snide remarks.People just don`t seem to get it!!! Backpacking and canoe tripping are becoming increasingly popularthis causes me some concern because the average joe treats back country caping like a KOA...putting you and I at risk.I like the idea of these mandatory courses but will they help?....should othser Parks incorporate these principles???”

“no”

“enforcement would be virtually impossible, IMHO>”

“I would be very resistant to having a ranger fondle my junk at a trailhead.”

“Poop in a coffee can... That's what I say!”

“I don't think the ranger would be too happy about removing the turd from your pack, either.”

“Just make sure the cook's taken all the coffee out first...”

“LOL! nooooo way is any ranger fondling my junk either. i wouldn't be opposed to a one-time mandatory LNT course, though.”

“...but would you poop in a coffee can lyra?”

“in some of the more fragile ecosystems, i would not have a problem watching a 10 or 20 minute video on lnt if it meant more ppl would learn lnt right. there are too many ppl that know what to bring on a backpacking trip but have no respect for where they are backpacking at.”

“only if someone was already using Violin's pack.”

“I don't need or hike with anyone that needs a 'mandatory course' on LNT.
Too much dumbass regs NOW.”

“they've done this at Haukauna Bay State Park in Hawaii, in addition to a cap on daily attendance. you must watch a 9-minute video before you can set foot on the beach. they've reduced visitation from 3 million a year to 1 million, the beach is no longer covered in trash, and they have high hopes the reef will recover from years of abuse.”

“thats a good point, stove. but i dont necessarily mean the ppl i hike with. i mean everybody that goes to the place. but the reason there are so many stupid regs is because there are too many ppl who would ruin the wilderness for everyone if the regs were not in place. its not something i would push for, but i would have no problem if i had to. alot of the rules and red tape i dont like, but i know why i have to do it, and so i do it.”

“like that hike in georgia you and i did. there was a ban on campfires for most of the way. and with good reason. the forest floor was practically de-nuded (and whats with that word, anyway? shouldnt it be "nuded")”

“I wonder if there'd be a way to CLEP out of the video? You know, if you pass the quiz you don't have to watch it? I might go for that.”

“ohmigosh, what did we do to deserve a visit from the SKULLMASTER??
:-D”

“Obviously you haven't been posting enough lately, lyra...”

“I guess I need a course on LNT!
Cause I don't even know what LNT stands for! haha....

I know what a rookie!!

Sounds to me like they need a course on common sense!”

“LOL @ Lyra!”

“Here ya' go snafu.

LNT ”

“It stand for Leave No Turds...”

“I lost my enthusiasm for 'official' LNT years ago on a Sierra Club trip.
This 'leader' threw all the sawn firewood left over from the night before off into the bushes so as to not tempt any others to camp at that spot.
He left the fire ring.”

“If there were some sort of national LNT certification, I might possibly be OK with it. If I had to watch a video or something before backpacking in each state or forest, I'd be pissed.

Besides, the irresponsible goobers that cause 99% of the problem wouldn't follow the regulations anyway.”

“Good point, violin.

Can you imagine the logistics behind National Certification.

Then what do you do when someone pulls a permit for 6?

Or in the case of TC3, we pull a permit for 100?


Maybe the Rangers could throw up a Trail Block and check for LNT licenses.”

“i'll slap that sarcasm right out yo' mouth, bitpusher!
;-)

yeah, i can't really imagine rolling up to a trail ready to hike, and having to sit for an hour to watch a video or something. major bummer, dude! however, i can imagine that a hiker's certification thing, like hunters get or whatever, could be a good thing.”

“Ooooooh. Promise?

Hurt me, baby!”

“The rangers could put this stuff down at high impact areas (TC3)? Roll it back up when everyone leaves.

Of course you'd have to turf the trees, and the stream, and the privy, and the dogs... and the firepit...”

“OMG i agree with violin....again. :S


I find those who care will do LNT and those who don't won't and lecturing them till blue in the face wont do a damn thing to change them.”

“Yes, the only thing you can do is shoot them and bury them in a shallow grave...”

“When I perform a google search LNT gives me "Linens 'N' Things"

Are you suggesting a mandatory course on how to tuck the sheets in? or how to put a pillowcase on?

Wow! I did not know there was a correct way to do this when backpacking.

How about that Colorado Ranger who set everything on fire teaching this course.
I am sure she left no traces of lots of things with that little bonfire.”

“It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid and selfish people are - not sure this would make that much difference though.”

“Now that I know what LNT stands for Leave No Turds.
IMO, (remember noobie here).
It should be common sense. Unfortunatly some/most people are slobs even at home! They will more then likely be slobs outdoors, probably even more so. It should just be a common sense thing. But there is always something new to learn about something.
As a Noobie, I did learn a few things that I may not of thought of being a noobie and all.
So a video or a website like Skullcap left me is a great idea! Certification for non-slob-ness is probably un-do-able.
The "Give a hoot don't pollute" and the Indian Crying commercials struck me hard as a kid.
I have always been as friendly to the enviroment has possible type, even before backpacking came into my mind.”

“Even people who have backpacked for a while can be confused about basic things like washing in a water source and stuff like that.”

“I think those jerks who leave thier horses tied next to the water all night long should have to take a course!!! theres nothing worse then drinking horse turds.... hmmm...maybe i SHOULD get a filter....”

“Step to the downhill side of the trail when encountering pack stock

What does this mean?

Thanks Tim”

“It means you have to step off a cliff so you dont scare the animals”

“O'




why do they call it "Catholes"”

“cause most dont want to use pinecones...”

“I read thru the LNT site from Skully and 99% was common sense. I did learn about the 200 feet from a water source for waste water disposal, so that was good. I figured 50-100 would of been fine, but 200 it is!

Also learned about Pack Stock from PCBUTT”

“When I went to Quetico, our group had to go through a 20 minute grilling from the park ranger. She was a very thorough person, to put it mildly. The park only allows so many people in the back country at one time and you have to route your trip in order to cause minimal impact. I'm glad she didn't inspect our packs, as one of us wouldn't have gotten across the border, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. She talked a lot about LNT.
After it was all said and done, I appreciated the Canadians efforts at keeping the park as pristine as possible. When you go there, you will feel grateful that they go the extra mile, because you get to see something very close to the way it has been for thousands of years. This is more important to me than having to go through an LNT lecture or video.
However, even with all that, the first island you come to after paddling away from the ranger station.....well, let's just say that we named it Sh_t Island and moved on as quickly as possible.”

“There already is a national certification for LNT. They are the courses offered by LNT.org.

The course most appropriate to most here is the Awareness workshop class.

StoveStomper what you observed was an instructor inserting their own opinion into LNT. A very common practice.

I would not be in favor of pack checks. I for one am sick of being searched everywhere I go. It is a sad commentary on us as a society when we expect eveyone to break the rules and when someone obeys the rules we are suprised and worse yet we castigate those who remind us that there are rules.

Those who have hiked with me know that I am not a zealot by any means but if you are truly interested in preserving what little wildlands (actually it would be more honest to call them non-developed lands) we have left then you need to at the very least read up and familiarize yourself with LNT and ask that those who hike with you do the same.”

“What HPM said.”

“Agreed:-)
PS
Do you have to dig a "Lionhole" for Mule #&%!$? haha just kiddin'”

“I use a plow.”

“I sure miss old Micah when we talk LNT.”

“Oh, LNT is a mandatory course in my Boy Scout Troop. You wanna go on the big trips then you get trained or stay home.

I have about 24 active boys and 19 are officially LNT trained.”

“Did the same with my scout troop,definitely helps..Most of them still bp or canoe trip and they still follow LNT principles.First troop I was in as a assistant leader,was a diaster.There was no preparation,no training and these kids could of cared less.We got to the park and while we signing in,a couple of them used a pay phone and dialed 911,promptly brining two OPP cruisers into the park,both had been on calls but were called to the park as it takes priority. I wanted to go home right there,but had no real say.It got worse from there...a true nightmare...Kids with only cereal,no sleeping bags etc....they didn`t want to hike...we`re talking a winner of a weekend!!!!. I quit after that and joined a smaller group in Springfield run by a friend.Ten kids very eager to get out there.We did our research ...drove the local outfitter crazy with questions,studied books looked up equipment..etc..seamed sealed the tents.Started out doing 10 kilometer hikes with full pack...if they coudn`t do that they weren`t allowed on the next trip of 15 or 20 kilometers.We checked gear,they had to bring it in the week before a trip they didn`t...they brought there gear to a leaders house..within 3 days of the trip or they were banned from the trip.Sounds harsh but these kids were fanastic on trips NO problems!!!The troop became one of the best in the district,because weeded out kids who didn`t really want to be there.We weren`t there to give mom and dad a break from junior on tuesday nite.I`m no longer a leader,but those principles are still used in Springfield.Most of those kids are in college now but I still get phone calls from them ,and day hike with some of them.We had a lotta fun...There times they even taught us...I`d crawl out of my tent at 0800 hrs and they`d be packed up,fire pit cleaned out and ready to motor patiently waiting for the old men to get rolling!!Great bunch of kids.”

“last time we were in the Whites the care taker at one of the sites gave a LNT class while we watched the sunset. Pretty interesting stuff. I have to say I didn't know there was a corperation that ran the show. I just thought of it as a way of outdoor life. I agreed with everything he said however I will not pack out my shiit.

Digging a cat hole is sufficient as far as I am concerned. I must say though that I have never yet hiked in places were that it wasn't a viable choice. It would absolutely be a different story if I were somewhere that wasn't possible”

“Paddles that sounds similar to my experiences and methods.

I completely disagree with the no TP crowd and nope, I'm never packing out poop. Ever.”