Odd War Notes

“Reviewing Mutt and Alaska's posts, I feel kind of obligated to say something. Not related to anyone's death, because I don't know anything about it, but certainly about the war.

Nobody who raises their right hand and takes the oath of enlistment is on some kind of run-a-way subway with nobody in the driver's seat. During the first Persian Gulf War I got out of the U.S. Navy as a conscientious objector when the party started. The U.S. Navy was so open minded about my objection that they sent me to prison and I was on a hunger strike for 11 days before the public attention got so intense they let me out.

Why did I object? Because I considered myself to be a warrior and my interpretation of that didn't include indiscriminate dropping of high explosives in school districts and residential neighborhoods of some third world backwater country to keep infantry casualties down. That's a mighty long way from Semper Fi.

I am not proud of anything this country has done since the second world war. I'm embarassed.

At least when I'm backpacking I can get a sense of what it would be like if it just went away and got forgotten.”

“What did you think the Navy did? Why was it a surprise that people were killed in war? Do you expect anyone to believe you were actually in the Navy?”

“Bushido.

I'm a peaceful warrior.

Give me peace or give me jail!”

“Bushido.

I'm a peaceful warrior.

Give me peace or give me jail!”

“You can't enlist as a co,so you turned co and deserted your pals when you knew it was gonna rain.
Fair enough,wouldn't want you there when the chips were down anyway. A warrior is some one who
has been to war. You were a brig
bunny. Not an insult,just the way it is.”

“U.S. Navy....Semper Fi?

~sniff sniff~
I smell bull$hit.”

“You know, if you guys can show the lifeguard that you can tread water they will let you swim over in the deep side of the gene pool.

I never thought of that, maybe I wasn't in the Navy in the first place? Maybe that was the problem.

For everybody else's information, I was in VAQ-139, an electronic countermeasures squadron on the carrier USS Independence, which was the first ship to respond to the invasion of Kuwait. We had been on maneuvers in the Indian Ocean and were diverted to the Persian Gulf.

I don't think you want to pick my personal courage as a point to attack my views. I have been where the dying gets done, in the Navy, as a pilot and as a firefighter.”

“We all have some experiences. But as long as you pick on us, your fanny is red meat! And you're already beyond belief. You tell so many provocative stories that you can't keep them straight.

Click!”

“Yep. Bull#&%!$.”

“You knew when you joined that you might not agree with your orders, but pal they were your orders. I don't judge people but leaving you post is BS. Also as a Forward Observer we do all we can to not fire HE indiscriminately into school yards, and residential areas.”

“Go tell it to the chaplain.
I'm sure he cares!”

“You mean to tell me that the DoD will take the time and money to train a Naval pilot, and then let them fight fires?

When I joined the Army they asked me many questions about how I would feel if faced with a combat situation. Either they stopped asking, or you lied.

PS. So firebombing Germany and nuking Japan is ok, but bombing Iraq is against your morals...

you make no sense”

“Good call DanofTheDeadMan... If he's a pilot he must be an officer...With hundreds of thousands of dollars of training behind him. He should be in jail...or shot.”

“don”

“How'd you like Fort Sill 13F? When were you there(if you were)? (I'm a former 13M 86-89)”

“2/80th Ft Swill OK. It wasn't that bad. Nice PX though. I think it was built after you were out though. Lawton could be better though. Ever go to Dragons West?”

“Dragons West? Never heard of it. I was at 6/27th (MLRS), we were by one of the gyms, theaters, and rec center. There was a HUGE P/X by the bowling alley, is that the one you were talking about?”

“Lawton was ok... like Wichita Falls better though”

“Yup... I thought it was newer than that. Got to hand it to you guys (13M). Grid square removal specialists. I was only in Sill for Basic and AIT...then Ft. McCoy WI.”

“There are no pilots in the Navy, they are called aviators. I was not an aviator in the Navy, I am a civilian pilot. I was not a firefighter in the Navy, I am a firefighter now. The point was some squirrel who has never seen anybody other than his great aunt dead in a coffin implied I did not have enough experience with death to have considered myself a warrior at one point.

I do not mean to single anyone out. I do not care if everyone attacks me, I have heard these arguments since 1991. I just think this country is an embarassment to the rest of the world, and I don't think somebody should be condemned for pointing it out. i.e. Alaska.”

“You were an embarassment to the navy, To our country, and to yourself. I listen to everyone bicker back and forth in here over the war and it never makes me angry. Its their right, Hell its my right too, but when you take that oath you have a duty to yourself and your country. You Failed everyone. Walking out on your duty makes me angry.”

“I would think a conscientous objector who wanted to join the
service would become a corpsmen or medic to help lessen the torment caused by war. A very special kind of bravery.
If you choose combat arms and
#&%!$ out, your a traitor.
Well,you have a different take on
bravery. So wear those chicken wings on your chest proudly.
Go to the Democratic Convention in Boston. Meet people who will
extol all the marvelous virtues you possess. You can meet with all
the people who volunteered to be human shields,they quit too.”

“The point is Warren. You have zero credibility. You were never in the Navy.”

“Warren, I'm not a fan of what we are doing in Iraq now, because I think we were dishonest.

But I also think we have a duty to finish up. It sounds like you joined the Navy for benefits (college fund) and then we went to war and you punked out. You then objected to us attacking Iraq to be fashionable and to not look like a coward. You recieved everything you had coming to you. Don't be bitter about it, you signed a contract, then you went back on your word.

I'm typically pretty accepting and kinda left leaning... but I think you're a disgrace”

“How would you like to go to a fire
with this ilk?”

“I am a Former Marine who served my country for 6 years and served along side many people do did not agree with orders handed down but would never leave a fellow Marine to fight alone. I am currently a Firefighter/Paramedic and place my life in the hands of others all day; I would hate to think that a fellow firefighter would leave me on the fire because he didn’t believe it was the right fire to fight.”

“Wow, all we need now is a fake Airman.”

“FAKE MY ASS”

“Deal wit it.”

“I was a life guard in a motor pool.!”

“Yeah bacpac watch it. I don't think anyone in here has ever heard me say anything bad, but calling people fake is BS... I haven't even accused warren of being a fake...just an embarassment”

“He's fake.”

“And probably an embarrasment too.”

“You are full of shi! dude!

8|”

“Kinghiker, infantry?”

“The shi! that some people beleve!!!!!!!!!


8\”

“1345”

“I was told you have to have thick skin to hang out here but ouch”

“Get used to it!


8|”

“0311,0321”

“When were you in?”

“75 to 81
81 to 85 SF
Fireman, 15 yrs.”

“I'll give you a hint what you're in for when you get out of high school. If you're not really careful, that is, if you don't stay inside your house wrapped with bubble wrap, you too might have what is called a baptism of fire. Where you what they used to call in the American Civil War "See the Elephant." You're especially at risk for this if you travel outside of the U.S.

I think what you'll find is that it will give you more of an appreciation for the sanctity of life. It will help you to wrap your mind around the fact that we get only a few short years here. It will help you to not automatically dislike other people who do not look like you or speak your language or even worship the same God. It might even make you realize that we're all one species sharing the same finite and fragile planet.

You are all free to attack my credibility as much as you please. Kinghiker, my brother, you need to get on top of that anger, you should know better than to imply that any firefighter would leave another firefighter behind.”

“Grow up Warren.”

“80 to 86 ended tour at MCRD San Diego
Fireman, 4yrs
paramedic 6 months”

“Congratulations,Kinghiker,I guess
lt. is next for you!”

“Its not anger I just question loyalty to your bothers and sisters. How could you let your fellow squids fight a war alone?”

“Sounds like he took an important
slot that somebody else should of
had.”

“I am shooting for Battalion Chief”

“Nuttin like the top of the wood pile! Go for it.”