WHY WE NEED GENERAL CLARK AS PRESIDENT

“Anyone but Edwards. It's starting look like Kerry is gonna roll. He and Clark might make a good team.”

“The Civil War is over. What ever happened to "united we stand" because divided the politicians (from wherever) do whatever the heck they want."
catskhiker
05:26:47 AM
02/08/04

Who said anything about the Civil War? Maybe I should throw out random thoughts in my posts--the Boxer Rebellion is over. I thought this was a thread about why we need General Clark as president.”

“Clark and Edwards gave the two best speeches at the Jefferson Jackson Dinner in Virginia.

I don't know if either can catch Kerry now though. Clark would be an excellent Sect. of State.”

“It just seems to me that neither Kerry nor Dean represents the broadest cross-section of the party; I just happened to draw a correlation that they are both northerners in an attempt to liven up the thread. No one ever wants to rise to the challenge. I am a constant failure as an inflammatory troll.”

“Reporting for duty: Wesley Clark

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Posted: September 23, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



By David Hackworth



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© 2003 David H. Hackworth

With Wesley Clark joining the Democratic presidential candidates, there are enough eager bodies pointed toward the White House to make up a rifle squad. This bunch of wannabes could make things increasingly hot for Dubya – as long as they don't blow each other away with friendly fire.

Since Clark tossed his steel pot into the inferno, I've been constantly asked, "Hack, what do you think of the general?"

For the record, I never served with Clark. But after spending three hours interviewing the man for Maxim's November issue, I'm impressed. He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes national security tick – and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts him in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell Taylor.

Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West Point class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts in any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division rifle company and was badly wounded.

Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war heroes, says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."

It took months for Clark to get back in shape. He had the perfect excuse, but he didn't quit the Army to scale the corporate peaks as so many of our best and brightest did back then. Instead, he took a demoralized company of short-timers at Fort Knox who were suffering from a Vietnam hangover and made them the best on post – a major challenge in 1970 when our Army was teetering on the edge of anarchy. Then he stuck around to become one of the young Turks who forged the Green Machine into the magnificent sword Norman Schwarzkopf swung so skillfully during Round One of the Gulf War.

I asked Clark why he didn't turn in his bloody soldier suit for Armani and the big civvy dough that was definitely his for the asking.

His response: "I wanted to serve my country."

He says he now wants to lead America out of the darkness, shorten what promises to be the longest and nastiest war in our history and restore our eroding prestige around the world.

For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played, there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit shenanigans.

No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.

Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong – the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen, U.S. SecDef at the time.

At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers and treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the dining room like my colleague Larry King and Bob Tisch, the Regency Hotel's owner. An appealing common touch.

But if he wins the election, don't expect an Andrew Jackson field-soldier type. Clark's an intellectual, and his military career is more like Ike's – that of a staff guy and a brilliant high-level commander. Can he make tough decisions? Bet on it. Just like Ike did during his eight hard but prosperous years as president.”

“BTW - The General is going through at least until Super Tuesday, which is March 2, at least that's the plan I've just recieved. There's gearing up for a big fight. You can call it the last horah, or whatever, but the fact still remains that we should hire this guy to run our country.

I saw on Imus in the morning, an interview witheh author of the latest book about Kerry. He explains that when Kerry came home, he went to a meeting in Detroit (great, we always start trouble up here!) where Vietman Viets gathered to talk about the attrosties they all comminted. The story goes that Kerry was stunned that it wasn't just him that saw all of that in "Nam. He then went back home and started to organize a Vet rally at the White House. Kerry brought his ribbions, not his medals and others brought ribbions, medals and other things to throw over the fence for there protest. A vet that couldn't make the rally, gave him his medals and told him to throw them over, which he did. So, the author contends that Kerry still has his medals, but not his ribbions. I don't know if that makes it any better, just what I've heard.”

“Kerry is not a war hero?

And I suppose Dubya is?”

“Never said he was but in looking at Kerry, he sure ain't one. "Traitor" may be accurate though.”

“Vietnam Veterans Against The War members were patriots, not traitors.

....as were the parents of casualties who protested.”

“If you say so Mark Fonda...”

“You ought to read a little history, stinky.”

“Stinky? How Peewee Herman is that? LOL! Look into Kerry's voting record and come back and tell me he's a hero.”

“Why do you hate your country, Heinrich?”

“Heehee! Don't get too bent out of shape about it Mark. There will be plenty of time for that if Kerry gets elected. It'll be nothing but a four year orgy of critism from me. Pace yourself...”

“Nigal

You seem like a decent guy and I'll assume that you're just fooling around, because these things that you're saying about Kerry being a traitor and calling MarkO , Mark Fonda would be highly ridiculous and insulting.

Did you ever serve your country in the military? Where would you come off saying such crap?

So let's clear this up....you're just kidding, right? After all, you wouldn't want to come across as a ignorant weenie, anonymously throwing rocks from the safety of the internet at veterans whose politics you don't like.”

“Jo, while my first post was serious I was kidding about the Mark Fonda crap. I like MarkO and this seems to be the first time he's ever shown some sort of mental illness...I keed! I keed!

But getting back to my first post...a war hero? Come on! Wasn't he fingured as a woman and baby killer during his time in the war? It was just a year or so ago that accusations were brought up, if I'm not mistaaken. Is that being a hero?”

“Nigal, this is NOT the first time that I have shown any kinda mental illness!”

“No problem bro...I'll always get your back.....always.

Listen Nigal....get your "stories" straight before you so freely cast asperions. It was BOB Kerrey of Nebraska ( a Congressional Medal of Honor winner)who had allegations of atrocities made against him and his unit in Vietnam for a night time attack on a village that went really BAD. It was a HORRIBLE combat mistake ....he did nothing intentional, but he took full responsibility. He didn't lie and weasel his way out.

MarkO is free to express his opinions as you, me and all the rest of the anonynmous TTers are. He, John Kerry, Bob Kerrey and lots of others volunteered to protect that freedom.

Again ...... back off these brave vets. Turn to the light Nigal and admit the truth. When will W take full responsibility?”

“Atrocities were commited on both sides in that war. Big difference was most of our boys didn't want to be there, there boys didn't have a choice. Rules of engagment were vague at times.

Is Kerry a war criminal? Good question:

Did he kill anyone innocent? Did he kill any children? Did he kill anyone old? Did he kill any men? Did he kill any women?

Be carful. Bush could fall within the same area. Worse, he's a leader of state. We have brought other leaders of state to justice for such crimes as these. We best be prepared for the harvest that we sow.”

“Nigal, here's two reasons why I like Kerry. 1. He had the guts to go to Vietnam. Many men in his situation got their influential daddies to pull the strings of power and get them ahead of the line waiting to get into the Guard.
2. When he realized that Viet Nam was a mistake, he had the guts to protest against it, as did thousands of his fellow vets. He could have come home and done nothing. Instead he got involved, as his conscience told him to.
So, in conclusion, he's a much better man than sits in the oval office at present.”

“Jo, that's why I asked first...

"Wasn't he fingured as a woman and baby killer during his time in the war?"

I don't take any of this shlt serious. I prefer to take seriousely the things we actually have control over...like, What's for lunch?

Q-

How very "stratish" of you.”

“Jab with a "baby-killer" comment. Feint with a "I only care about lunch" comment.

Brilliant.”

“Nigal

GRRRRRR!!!!!

I'll eat your lunch.”

“Nigal - Now, now, you know better. I'm interested to see wat wuld happen if another country would persue this issue. What I say is true. Bush's take on Iraq is weak at best. He sighted "maybe we learned some lessons in Iraq and Afgani" Dood! You can't "practice" on other countries. I'm real suprised that other countries on the planet are buying this "Oppps, sorry", bull. You can't kill a bully in the school yard just because he MIGHT hurt you at some point. I think the rules should apply both ways.”

“Is Vietnam where Kerry got his head squeezed in that vise?”

“No way mainstream Americans will get behind a guy born with a silver spoon - went to prep school in Massachussetts, and then on to New England elite Ivy league schools like Yale and Harvard.”

“Ya mean Dubya?”

“Hey Bubba Bear.....America already did.....W aint no Southerner. Born a Yankee in Connecticut. Went to boarding school on Mass., went to Yale and then Harvard. Huh?! Go figure. He fooled you. Some where in there he pretended to be a soldier.....and snorted a lot of coke.

Kerry may have been born into priviledge but he volunteered to serve his country in a combat role.”

“I don't think anyone who served in Vietnam should be ashamed of that service, nor do I think they needed to come home and protest it. They should have protested how it was fought, i.e., the shots being called by civvies in D.C. The reason we didn't achieve total victory was because Washington felt the need to control every single detail, down to the day to day operations of the war, making rules of engagement too confusing, etc. In the major confrontations of the war, like Tet, the US was winning, but was losing the "winning of hearts and minds" part, fighting for a people who didn't seem to care one way or the other in the long run. That and not being allowed to do what needed to be done to win completely.
By the way JO, being a veteran does not excuse one from having their politics disagreed with; however, I will concur that there is too much name-calling on these forums when the arguments get deep. Happens on both sides.”

“Nice post, Stickman. I agree that no one should be ashamed of their service in Viet Nam, unless they did something hideous that could have been prevented. However, there were many atrocities, such as the bombing of Cambodia, that necessitated that people demand the cessation of the war. You are right, Stick, when you say that we were fighting for a people who were barely willing to fight for themselves. The South Vietnamese government was so (verifiably) corrupt, that it engendered little loyalty from its own citizens.”

“I know that's a popular line SMW but weren't there something like 2 million or so casualties in the Vietnam war? How much more would have been enough? Should we have used the 'nuclear option'?

In the "Fog of War" Robert McNamara claims General Cutis LeMay said of our war against the Japanese: "If we lost the war, we'd all be prosecuted as war criminals."

A lot of what we did in Vietnam could be described that way.”

“You won't see Henry Kissinger travelling abroad much these days. Some people want to try him for war crimes after ordering the bombing of Cambodia.”

“The Pentagoons sure ducked their duty and passed the buck blaming everyone but themselves.

If any of those perfumed princes had any guts they would have resigned in protest.

They knew that the war was un-winnable.

They went along for the sake of their carreers.

In '64 Johnson was warned by Charles DeGaulle and Moshe Dayan and quite a few more that the U.S. could never win.


War Is A Racket.......Wall Street loved it.”

“A big stack of soggy microwave pancakes with butter and gobs and gobs of syrup. Now there is something I can control!!”

“Anyway, General Clark will make a vine VP, or cabinet member.”

“I didn't serve in Vietnam personally, being too young, but I've read many books on the subject, by military men. That doesn't make me anything close to an expert, but it seems the general opinion is that if the war had been left to the military leadership in Vietnam, it could have been won. I've even heard it said that if the bombing of N Vietnam had continued, we would have won. The pyschological effects of the constant noise made by the B52s and explosions was wearing the N Vietnamese troops out. I haven't read too much on that, so I don't know what to think about that. However, the VC were using Cambodia and Laos as bases of operation, knowing that the US was not supposed to cross the border and come after them. Imagine the frustration of the troops, knowing where the enemy was and not being allowed to go get them. It was in effect a deadly game of tag, where the enemy had a "safe" area, and the US troops didn't. Besides, the men who have come back and put their personal stories in print say that the borders were very hard to define. There were plenty of times they weren't sure just exactly where they were.

I don't know the total number of casualties. I think the US numbers were around 58000. Again, if the military in Vietnam had been given permission to fight the war, I think we could have won, and the casualties would probably have been significantly lower. Units like the LRRPs were taking the fight to the VC and winning. Hackworth and others like him realized what needed to be done, and were experts in guerilla warfare, having learned how the hard way. I don't know if we should have bailed the French out or not, but once the decision was made, McNamara and others stateside should have backed off and let the military do the job. You can call me naive or close-minded, but I still think the US military has always been able to get the job done when allowed.”

“Hell Duna, he didn't even make a good general. What makes you think he'd be any better with even MORE on the line?


Mmmmmm! Syrup!”

“No doubt, Stickman. I roomed with a guy who was a radioman in the war. His frustration was, after having acquired territory, giving it back and having to re-take it. This was one of the main reasons that morale was so low among the troops.
Also, there is no doubt that the US military, being the finest in the world, could have marched into Hanoi. However, would the Chinese and Russians just stood by? This was a big question at the time. As it was, the Viet Cong were being armed by both of these countries.”

“I'd feel better with him in control than the other choices. I'm not too excited about his closeness with Hilary. Something about that woman rubs me the wrong way. I'm talking about her, has nothing to do with her husband or his performance in office(all puns apply).”

“From what I can glean from reading about Clark, he made a fine general, Nigal. I would guess you are referring to his actions in Bosnia? I recently read about his actions from Madeline Allbright's point of view, and she has high praise for him. That is one tricky situation over there and not eveyone could handle it.”

“Stick. You should read Hillary's book, Living History. It provides many insights into who she is and what motivates her.”

“"I recently read about his actions from Madeline Allbright's point of view, and she has high praise for him."

Madeline Halfbright? Bawhawhawhaw! Now THERE'S a ringing endorsment! If he was so good why did he get pulled off the job? Why are we still there?”

“I'd rather base my opinion of her on gut feelings and personal dislike rather than any substantial documentation.”

“Nigal poo-poos the "poli" threads for just the comments he is so adept at.”

“Stickman, you're killing me here, man! I feel just the same way as you, LOL!
What book would you recommend I read?”

“"Nigal poo-poos the "poli" threads for just the comments he is so adept at."

Great answer Duna. So Clark was recalled from the post he was doing such a good job at because I poo-poo on poli threads? And we are STILL there because I'm a poopyhead?”

“I know you are, but what am I?
-PeeWee Herman
From what I can tell, we, (meaning the United Nations), are still in Bosnia and Kosovo because the missions are having great success at keeping the peace. The US isn't being targeted as the unilateral agent of force in those areas, and the native Kosovars and Bosnians are glad that the UN is helping to maintaing the peace while they build legitimate democracies.”

“Good gravy man! It's been years and years now. Why do libs crow on about getting out of Iraq when we haven't even cleaned up the messes Clinton started? And this doesn't answer the question why Clark was recalled.”

“Hey Stick....I never said being a vet should keep someone from having their politics judged.
It's the stupid name calling...especially by people with no idea what their talking about. It's an old trick....when you can't argue intelligently, shucks just call them a name like "Fonda". Then pretend they were just kidding. Heck, some left- leaners here use "Nazi" that way.

Why did you have to point out that Kerry is from the north? What difference does that make? You mean to tell me that disqualifies him?”

“Hey Nigal - How may US military casualties have there been in Bosnia or Kosovo? How many US troops are currently deployed there?”