WHY WE NEED GENERAL CLARK AS PRESIDENT

“When the U.S. and British forces reached the Chinese border in North Korea the Chinese intervened.

Imagine if the U.S. forces had done that in Vietnam.

That is what made the war un-winnable.

Hackworth stated publicly in '71 as much and Westmoreland wanted to kill him.

That crap about, "if the military had been allowed to fight it thier way", is just excuses.

The general went along to get along for the sake of their carreers.

58,000 dead plus 300,000+ wounded
equals total caualties.

It was a fight to protect the commerce there.

We were told some of the same lies then as now.
"If we don't fight them there, we'll have to fight them here before long."
THAT was a lie.
The Vietnamese had no designs on the U.S.”

“generals, (plural)”

“Didn't they find capabilities of "Designs On The USA Programs" in Hanoi? I think it was in a van or something.”

“Or written on a piece of rice paper.”

“Yellow-cake rice paper.”

“Why did you have to point out that Kerry is from the north? What difference does that make? You mean to tell me that disqualifies him?"
JO
02:31:43 PM
02/09/04

I just happened to draw a correlation that they are both northerners in an attempt to liven up the thread. No one ever wants to rise to the challenge. I am a constant failure as an inflammatory troll."
Stickmanwalking
03:43:26 PM
02/08/04

TomTMarkO, I still think we could have won the war. You keep referring to the generals and their desire to please Washington, but I'm talking about the men who were actually in the thick of things. I have yet to meet a vet from Vietnam who thinks we would have lost if the fighting men had been in control. Oh well, that's a completely different topic than what this thread was intended for.”

“I guess Nigal is pulling a 'strat' and decided to drop off this thread.

The answers to my question:
1) US military casualties in Bosnia = 0
2) US military casualties in Kosovo = 0
3) Current US deployment ~ 4,000 (1,500 in Bosnia/2,500 in Kosovo).”

“I heard today a nasty little rumor that both Kerry and Edwards have missed almost three monthes worth of votes while they are campainging. If it's true, that bad. These people need to be in the office, justify thier 6 figure income, but I'll reserve throwing crap until I know it's true.....”

“Stickman, say "we" had won the war, then what?

The Viets would have tried again and again to throw out the foreigners.

And taking the north would have invited the Chinese to intervene.

The South Vietnamese government was a puppet government, there to protect the commerce.

plantation, plantation, plantation !

I've met the same kind of veteran.
They think "we" could've kicked their asses.
Yeah, maybe, and then what?
And how many dead Americans?
Would it be worth it?

The cost of the conflict was more each year than the value of the commerce it tried to protect.”

“Pillboy posted that picture of Kerry "with" Jane Fonda at an anti-war rally that the wingnuts have been blabbering about for weeks now. I'll let y'all make up your own minds about how damning it is but don't expect me not to laugh at you if you bring it up again.

”

“No Violin, I'm just waiting for my own question to be answered...why was such a fine and upstanding general pulled off the post as comander of the forces there?”

“Go back a few weeks Nigal. I already gave my interpretation.”

“How about ya do what you do best...cut and paste.”

“I'll repeat myself. He pissed off his superiors by speaking out in favor of intervention in Kosovo to prevent genocide.”

“That's Kerry in the back, all out of focus and stuff, right?”

“This point (Clark being "pulled") has been talked about at least 5 times on this site. It's out there.

As for the Hanoi Jane photo, looks like there were a lot of other people there as well.....wonder if they hold any positions of power of influance? One thing is a FACT:
Most of the people in the "Revolution" back then were into it to get laid and party. There was only a core of, I'd guess, 15% of that population that was down with it. The others would talk Revolution, but wouldn't walk it.

This photo and other things said about Kerry, Clark, Edwards, et al, is about as despearate as it gets. Y'all poo poo people for pointing out all the crap Bush did, but then y'all throw this kind of stuff up. Whatnever.”

“Oh yeah, squinting and showing his teeth.

Is that Bruce Springsteen on the left with the shades?

That looks like my wife in the middle, in front of Kerry.”

“Bush lied......people died”

“At least Kerry would address the issue, not dismiss it like some thing to be ashamed of, like some people (and they know who they are) :)”

“"...they know who they are, even if they don't know it..."”

“Just trying to interject some MammaBear resets, sorry for the poor attempt at humor. My funny bone is broke today...”

“Morons at work... Please stay back!”

“I'm guessing that's Kerry. The caption at Pillboy's site says he is seated behind her but that bearded hippy guy sure doesn't look like him.”

“That bearded dude is sittin' right up there!”

“Clark is for full rep for DC citizens! He can have my vote. No wait...DEMS lie like dogs.”

“Are Repubs for representation for D.C.?”

“No. But they never pretend to be! :)

I am currently looking for a candidate outside the RepubiDem Party.”

“Good luck....”

“I lost all respect for Kerry after seeing that picture. He got that close to Fonda and didn't bang her???

I would have told her she was a very bad girl for posing in that anti-aircraft gun in North Vietnam and that she needed to be punished. Put her in that Barbarella outfit...

Sure that NV gun might have shot down some friend of his, but she was hot back then.”

“Fonda in her barbarella outfit... tied to a gun turret...getting spanked...

I gotta go.”

“Now there you go! What Fonda did WAS a crime. There was no in between about that. Was she tried? Nope, she went on to make millions off of you. Go figure.”

“What Fonda did was stupid, but a crime?

Name that crime!”

“Treason - Giving aid & comfort to the enemy in the time of war.”

“One of the aspects of the Viet Nam war, is that it wasn't a declared war.”

“Uh huh, they couldn't justify declaring war.


Dubya's grandad got slapped for trading with the enemy in '42.”

“Does that mean the American "terrorist" was not an enemy combatant?”

“You know, the one fighting in afghanistan.

My mind is mush, started work at 0700 EST, & I still have 2hrs left.”

“"One of the aspects of the Viet Nam war, is that it wasn't a declared war........"

Sounds familar......not like it could be the same....could it?”

“I'm curious Tom/Mark, what justifies war in your opinion? Were we supposed to allow communism to spread willy-nilly while we practiced isolationism? Or is it your opinion that all wars are fought in the interest of big corporations?”

“"I'm curious Tom/Mark, what justifies war in your opinion? Were we supposed to allow communism to spread willy-nilly while we practiced isolationism? Or is it your opinion that all wars are fought in the interest of big corporations......."



I'll jump in here, sorry MarkTom, but it was both. One gave the other a great opp.”

“Stickman - our involvement in Vietnam stopped the spread of communism? You mean we won???”

“No, it spread right to South Vietnam. Couldn't go any further south than that!

Anyone know if Laos and Combodia went Commie? All of French IndoBurma?”

“My point is, we didn't stop the spread in SE Asia. Pol Pot in Cambodia? That's communism. If anything the Chinese kept Vietnam in check over fear of dominance not idealogy. Burma (myammar - sp?) didn't go but its one nasty of a dictatorship.

Once the difference between a communist dictatorship and a right wing dictatorship? We can place troops there.”

“Once = what's = a tired bear.”

“Stickman - our involvement in Vietnam stopped the spread of communism? You mean we won???"
bearmagnet
09:39:15 PM
02/10/04

You guys might not be aware of this, but the reason given for going to Vietnam was because the South, which was not Communist (although corrupt), was being invaded by the North,which was communist. I wasn't aware I was going to have to get this basic with people, which is part of the reason I addressed the post to Tom T, not Laqtis or Bearmagnet. I gather from your responses that you all have not been following my conversation with Tom, but rather picking every third or fourth post to read, and basing your comments accordingly.”

“stickman - i know why we went. Thanks. If I wasn't so tired I'd smack ya! Where you at? I read them all, apparently too quickly. Someday maybe I will be worthy.

We kept the South free?? :)

Please forgive. Goodnight.”

“Back on topic. Clark makes a distant third place showing in Tennessee and Virginia. Kerry, who many did not think could take a Southern state, won handily in both.
I think this has as much to say about how badly voters want a change in the Whitehouse as anything. People are ready to give Kerry a head start.
Clark or Edwards as VP???”

“AP release says Clark is backing out on Wed.”

“Yep. He's backing out.”

“Too bad.

Bear, the point of the argument wasn't originally why we went, but rather we could have won if things had been run differently. Tom T steered it towards us not being there in the first place, but I digress. I'm wasting my time with it.

I would have liked to see Clark go on a little longer, but he's probably brokered a deal with one of the other guys to be VP or something.”