Bringing back the draft?

“"No, that would not be ironic, it’d be an honor. While being under 37 (35) and but a simple caregiver would hardly make me a first in liner; if I were selected and trained as a medic or a nurse I’d go willingly. I often regret not going into the service when I graduated high school."
>
You could go join up right now Nigal, well you could if you had the stones. They're sending Army Reserve grandmothers and grandpas to Iraq everyday. I'm sure they would take a patriot like yourself. But that ain't going to happen is it? Talk is cheap.”

“"Of course this is going to be too hard to understand because we have such different views of the military. While many see our military forces as an unwitting tool of an evil fascist empire I see our fighting men and women as individuals fighting for the greatest cause, freedom. And being even greater than just freedom, they are fighting for the freedom of others who can’t fight for it themselves.”
>
I don't have a different view of the military at all. I back U.S. troops 100 percent and therefore I want them home safe and sound. If you seriously believe they are in Iraq fighting for freedom you have been listening the Bush's spinmeisters way too long. Say that to the average soldier in Iraq and I bet he would laugh in your face. Soldiers in combat are fighting to stay alive. They're fighting for their comrades in arms and their unit. "Freedom" and other high sounding words repeated ad nauseum by politicians are just that, words. A politician like Bush or Clinton or Kerry will say anything as long as it justifies his immediate goal.
>
The bottom line is we are in Iraq for two reasons.
1. To secure the realm of Israel. Go study the individuals who lied and pushed to drag us into this war. Nearly every one of them was/is in some way, tied to the right wing of Israel and the Likud government of Ariel Sharon. Do a Google search on an Israeli policy paper written in 1996 for Benjamin Netanyahu entitled, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm”. It was written by some of your favorite NeoCons. These are the same guys that are or were sitting in high civilian positions in Mr. Rumsfeld's Pentagon. They include Richard Perle (formerly of the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans), Douglas Feith (Under Secretary of Defense for Policy), and David Wurmser (he works for Cheney's national security advisor Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Here's a great read on Wurmser. http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.10.31/news2.wurmser.html.
The main objective of this policy paper was the removal of Saddam Hussein and the installation of a Hashemite monarchy in Iraq that was friendly to Israel. George Bush was looking to invade Iraq even before 911. He had plenty of "American patriots" to goad him along.
2) Although Bush would have you believe everything is just hunky-dory and the economy is gearing back up, the fact of the matter is that this country is bankrupt. We have been on a buying binge for so long that the world is flush with US fiat money. And the world in general is getting antsy about having all those Ben Franklins. Afterall it's just paper. So now there is talk of trading for oil in Euros or even gold. Do you know what is going to happen when that actually happens? The dollar is going to tank bigtime and your lifestyle and mine is going with it. The men who really run this land aren't going to let that happen. It's way too risky. Americans get angry when they can't ride up and down the road in their SUVs. America will control the oil in Iraq and it won't be because we gave a grateful Iraqi people their freedom.
>
Now all this may be fine with you and all the rest of the armchair chickenhawks that seem to infest TT but in my mind, it's a dangerous path Bush is taking the country down. The US is becoming an imperial empire. Nothing good ever comes to a people when they take this road.
last edited: 12/05/04 10:44:32 PM”

““You could go join up right now Nigal, well you could if you had the stones. They're sending Army Reserve grandmothers and grandpas to Iraq everyday. I'm sure they would take a patriot like yourself. But that ain't going to happen is it? Talk is cheap.”

If I’m not mistaken they do not take recruits over 35. But thanks for the insult anyhow.

“If you seriously believe they are in Iraq fighting for freedom you have been listening the Bush's spinmeisters way too long.”

Again, that’s for the insult. You may call me old fashioned or naïve but I happen to simply hold soldiers in the highest regard. Fighting for freedom is at the very core of the soldier’s purpose.

The Soldier’s Creed

I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I AM A GUARDIAN OF FREEDOM and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.


The Sailor's Creed
I am a United States Sailor.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage, and Commitment.
I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

You may not believe it but I do.

“Say that to the average soldier in Iraq and I bet he would laugh in your face. Soldiers in combat are fighting to stay alive. They're fighting for their comrades in arms and their unit. "Freedom" and other high sounding words repeated ad nauseum by politicians are just that, words.”

I know that when the shlt hit’s the fan they fight for the man to their left and to their right. But to say they are not there for freedom undermines their purpose.

“The US is becoming an imperial empire. Nothing good ever comes to a people when they take this road.”

Imperial? Really? Exactly what colonies do we maintain around the world? Imperial has become such a hollow catch phrase. It’s right up there with fascist.”

“Nigal I don\'t know why I ever get into these worthless arguments with you et. al. I swore two years ago I was going to stop. And I did for awhile. But alas, I\'ve bit my tongue so much in the last six months it\'s hanging by a shred.
>
I don\'t mean to be insulting, but brother some of the things you guys say in here seem so unreal, so naive I can\'t believe what I\'m hearing. I get pissed off.
>
I have two daughters of draft age (25 and 27). I also have a son that is 14. Each one of them has the chance of being caught up in what I see as pure, unadulterated madness. I have no intention of letting that happen. Not for freedom as you call it. Not for oil. And most certainly not for the security of Israel. You do what you want. I'll take care of my own.
>
IMO our leaders in Washington have led this country well down the road to ruin. I don\'t mean the Republicans. I mean all of them, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Senators, Reps, lobbyists, whoever. We are sitting on a seven trillion dollar deficit. Our deficit when you include Social Security is something on the order of 39 trillion dollars! Our trade deficit with the rest of the world is huge. People in every state of the Union are losing manufacturing jobs. We are on our way to 2nd World status. And yet we can spend at least $200 billion on this war for the freedom of the Iraqi people? The financial aspects of it beggar belief! We don\'t even have to argue the philosophical fine points of empire to know that something is wrong.
>
OTOH, there is one other way to looking at the situation. Our leaders in Washington know how bad things really are. Maybe this seizure of Iraqi oil is a last desparate attempt to prop up the US house of cards. With the US in control of Iraq, at least one country will accept US$ for oil. Now in the rest of the world the US dollar won\'t be worth the paper it\'s printed on. But hey, thank God we'll be able to drive to our jobs at Wally World.
last edited: 12/06/04 12:09:14 PM”

“(CBS) This past week, the Pentagon announced it’s boosting the levels of U.S. troops in Iraq to its highest point ever – 150,000.

It’s sending in paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne, extending the tours of Marines, and it has started drawing from a pool of semi-retired soldiers called the Individual Ready Reserve.

It's a sign that the Army needs able, and not so able, bodies very quickly. And many of the men and women being mobilized from the Ready Reserve – approximately 5,000 this year – are not very happy about it.

In fact, a third of these soldiers who’ve been called up haven’t shown up. But if old soldiers never die, as the saying goes, the Army isn’t letting them fade away. Correspondent Bob Simon reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many of those soldiers who have answered the call have come to Fort Jackson, S.C., for training. It's a place none of them really expected to be. In fact, very few expected to be mobilized at all.

"I automatically started crying for about two hours. I couldn't stop, because I knew I was gonna have to leave my babies," says Spc. Carey Trevino, who was called up in August.

She's 31, and has three kids – the youngest a 7-month-old baby boy. She'll be leaving her children behind when she goes to Iraq, for another year-and-a-half.

"I need to serve my country and the call has come out, so I am doing that," says Chief Warrant Officer Margaret Murray, who did her active duty back in the '60s.

She's 55, and 4 feet, 8 inches tall. Her M-16 is almost as big as she is, but that didn't stop her from qualifying as a marksman this week.

Does she find it unusual that the Army is now calling up a female soldier in her 50s, who has been in the reserves for 40 years?

"No. Although I think what they need to look at is our ability to perform in a tactical environment," says Murray. "For myself, I am going to find that a difficult thing to do physically."

Especially if Murray winds up in a place like Fallujah. Does she find that daunting? "Scary," says Murray. "[But] I need to do my job. … I did not retire. And so, now the Army's calling me back to service. And I'm here to do that."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 110,000 men and women in the Ready Reserve right now. They generally don’t train or get paid or belong to units, but they can be called up in case of war or national emergency.

This already happened during the first Gulf War, when 20,000 Ready Reservists were mobilized for 120 days. But this time around, they’ll be there for up to two years.

Pvt. George Sayegh is keeping his obligation as best he can. He may not look tough, but he is very tough on the guys who are not reporting for duty. "When you abandon your country in time of warfare, I feel that, knowing what your obligation is, I believe that it is an act of cowardice," he says.

But you'd be hard-pressed to call one woman 60 Minutes talked to a coward – even though she is resisting the call to return for duty. "Mary," as we're calling her, is a senior special agent with a federal law enforcement agency. She does undercover work in the war on drugs – which is why she appeared in disguise.

"You come up against a lot of big-time criminals. And they're prepared to kill and to shoot to get out of certain situations," says Mary, of her work in the war on drugs.

Is she reluctant to return to the Army because she is afraid of danger? "No, my reluctance is because what's right," says Mary. "I thought my time was up. And they're telling me that it's not."

Like many Army officers, Mary signed up for eight years -- four years active duty, and four years in the Ready Reserves. She received her discharge certificate in 1998, but she was called up this past June to serve as a transportation officer.

"I called the Delay and Exemption Board. And the young lady that I talked to said that date [on my contract] meant nothing. That my new date is 2018," says Mary.

"I was in shock. I was like, 'What do you mean? I have a piece of paper that tells me that that's my obligation.' And for them to just send me orders and disrupt my life and pull me back, it's disheartening and I feel betrayed, I guess you could say. … The military is betraying me, because I served my time."

What Mary didn’t realize is that, as an officer, she remained in the Ready Reserve -- even after her eight years were through -- because she hadn’t resigned her commission as an officer.

But she’s not alone. Many officers say they were never made aware of that -- that no mention is made of it in the enlistment agreements they signed. The Army, which declined a request by 60 Minutes for an interview, counters that the requirement is referred to in the agreements – if ever so obliquely.

"It's a six-digit reference to an Army regulation, that that's put in a remark section in these agreements," says Mark Waple, a lawyer who specializes in defending soldiers. "It borders on being a deceptive recruiting practice. I’m not suggesting it was intended that way."

Waple is a graduate of West Point and was once a judge advocate general in the military himself.

Nevertheless, he calls what the Army’s doing now "a backdoor draft." And since June, he’s been getting dozens of calls from officers around the country who are convinced the Army has no right to call them up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Parrish was the first to call. He served his four years of active duty in the 1990s as an artillery officer.

Unlike many Ready Reserve soldiers, who say they never knew they had to resign their commissions, Parrish knew, and did.

He believed that legally he was out of the military forever. But last July, Parrish and his wife, Collette, were shocked when he received one of those letters from the Army.

But when he called Army Personnel to tell them a mistake had been made, they seemed to know very little about him. In fact, they told him that he had never done his active duty.

"I said, 'Well, I served active duty. I have the records.' And then I said, 'Do you have my DD-214?,'" says Parrish.

"The DD-214 is the one that says honorable discharge on it. It's a record of everything you've done. And they said, 'No. We do not have that on file. But we can request it.' And I said, 'Request it? You're the Human Resources Command. Shouldn't you already have that before you call somebody to active duty?' They told me, 'Oh, you'll have to report, and we'll work it out from there.'"

Parrish, a veteran, knew that once he reported, he would have "given up all your rights." "Once you show up, you're gonna go to Iraq," says Parrish. "No matter how right you may be."

But should all bets be off now that the country is in a state of emergency?

"I think if they're saying that, then what they're saying is there needs to be a draft. It's over and over it's told, 'We're an all-volunteer Army. We're an all volunteer armed forces,'" says Parrish's wife, Collette.

"And if it's going to be all volunteer, it needs to be the people that have actually volunteered and want to be there - not the people who served and wanted to go on and be civilians."

Parrish is challenging his orders in federal court, where the Army is now arguing that his resignation should never have been accepted in the first place - that it was a clerical error.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Howell also thought a mistake had been made when he received his notification last August. He’s 47 and disabled from an accident he suffered in the military.

"I can’t run anymore. If somebody was shooting at me and chasing me I couldn’t run away from them. I can’t, you know, if I lift anything more than 30 or 40 pounds, I literally, the rod in my arm tingles," says Howell.

He joined the Army in 1981, and became a helicopter pilot. He flew along the DMZ in Korea. Finally, in 1997, after almost 16 years of active service, he retired.

"My goal was to move back and get that life that I never had because for 16 years the Army," says Howell. "I mean, I gave the Army my life. Of course, you know, I wanted a family, you know. I wanted to marry someone and to settle down and to have a home."

And so he did. His son was born two months ago. Going back into the Army would be a major inconvenience, to say the least.

But Howell says he’s willing to do it if he can serve in the United States, which he put in the form of a prayer on Thanksgiving this year.

This past week, the Army rejected Howell’s offer and sent him a letter saying his exemption has been disapproved, and he has to report for duty early next year. But Howell intends to keep fighting.

What is he going to do if he has to go to Iraq?

"I don’t have a choice. They’re going to have to come and get me. I mean literally," says Howell. "They’re going to have to come get me. And at that point in time, if they come get me, I don’t have a choice. They’ll have to drag me away and make me go."



© MMIV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.”

“Ha! we have an anti-draft thread, with stories about people wanting to get out of stop-loss, and the adds on the side are for joining the army.”

““Nigal I don\'t know why I ever get into these worthless arguments with you et. al. I swore two years ago I was going to stop. And I did for awhile. But alas, I\'ve bit my tongue so much in the last six months it\'s hanging by a shred.”

Well, your obvious inability to accept or even respect a differing view is your problem. Let’s not make it mine by needlessly insulting me. I have restrained myself here and tried to be civil. Call me dumb. Call me naïve. Call me what you like. These are my opinions so you may take them are you may leave them depending on your ability to do so.

“I have two daughters of draft age (25 and 27). I also have a son that is 14. Each one of them has the chance of being caught up in what I see as pure, unadulterated madness. I have no intention of letting that happen. Not for freedom as you call it. Not for oil. And most certainly not for the security of Israel. You do what you want. I'll take care of my own.”

I have family in the Sandbox as we speak so I do know what it is to have loved ones in harms way. I have a lot of younger family that will be in the age range 10 years down the road when things often come to fruition after wars. I’ve never been one to say, “If ya don’t like it leave.”. I hate it. I also do not call people unpatriotic for not thinking as I do. I also hate the idea of a draft. Having said that we have to recognize there are certain obligations to being an American citizen. Registering for the draft is one of them. It is the highest calling and cost of being an American. There is responsibility to having all the rights we have. Being called to duty is one of them. Unfortunately we can not pick and choose what responsibilities we are bound to. And I thank the heavens every Veterans Day for those who DID answer that call and DID fulfill their obligations. I personally feel draft card burners should be shown to the border after serving their prison sentence.

But again, this is all hyperbole because there is no draft, there is no draft planned and I don’t think there will be a draft. Of course unless you lefties lose control of some more of your law makers and they try to pass another draft like they did this year. Remember, it was YOUR boys that tried it. Not the conservatives.”

“Nigal,
Don't try to bull$hit a bull$#&%!$ter. Unless you have some late bloomers I seriously doubt you or your sandbox age childern have to worry about a draft. Fifteen years from now all of this will hopefully be over. About the time a sandboxer would turn 18.
>
Now here a quote you may want to save for future reference. And remember to cite your source.
>
solitary hiker sez:
If we are not out of Iraq in 18 months there will be a draft.
>”

“"Don't try to bull$hit a bull$#&%!$ter. Unless you have some late bloomers I seriously doubt you or your sandbox age childern have to worry about a draft. Fifteen years from now all of this will hopefully be over. About the time a sandboxer would turn 18."

You must have misread what I said. I didn't say anything about the Iraq war going on for 10 years. I specificlly said..."I have a lot of younger family that will be in the age range 10 years down the road when things often come to fruition after wars.". Please don' try to make me say what you want me to say. 10 years, not fifteen. Your assumption that you know how old my family members are is silly.”

“So you did but I'm getting the last word in this free-for-all.
>
I guess an eight year old could still be playing in the sandbox at this time so I'll buy into your 10 year scenario.
>
I misread your post and thought you were talking about your own children. So clarify for me. Are you talking about your children or maybe you're talking about some cousins, nieces, or nephews you have? Which the latter, IMO, speaking as a father, don't ellicit the same sort "concern level" as a son or daughter.”

“I don't have any children but this doesn't somehow discount my opinion. That's a cop out. If I had a son who burned his draft card and ran like a coward he better not try to come home.”

“Nigal, why should he not come home. Is he not entitled to his own opinion even if it is different than yours?. It is easier to say that than do it.”

“SH mentioning the whole Empire Thing reminded me of something that occurred to me a few weeks ago...

What do all empires have in common?

They fall.”

“The thing about the whole Empire Thing is that, really, who the hell saw it coming that Darth was Luke's dad? It was such a great blindside!”

“I'm just glad Dubya can't get his hands on a Death Star... Ya know?”

“I think that now that the pressure’s off to get re elected he should just let it all hang out. Come for press conferences with six guns and shoot them into the floor so he hangs in mid air like Yosemite Sam.

“I’m the rootin-est, tootin-est, shootin-est Commander in Chief!””

“Bill H.R. 163
Representative Charlie Rangel (D-NY)
COSPONSORS(13), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1]
Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14]
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23]
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5]
Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8]
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13]
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

Bill S. 89
Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC)
Cosponsors (None)

These people are all on record as demanding a draft of both boys & girls.

I wonder how many if any were defeated for reelection?

Personally, I am against slavery.”

“"[W]e’ll be in Iraq for a long time. Most likely with a draftee force."
- David H. Hackworth”

“Army Reserve nearly 'a broken force,' chief says

WASHINGTON -- The head of the US Army Reserve has sent a sharply worded memo to other military leaders expressing "deepening concern" about the continued readiness of his troops, who have been used heavily in Iraq and Afghanistan, and warning that his branch of 200,000 soldiers "is rapidly degenerating into a 'broken' force."

In the memo, dated Dec. 20, Lieutenant General James "Ron" Helmly lashed out at what he said were outdated and dysfunctional policies on mobilizing and managing the force. He complained that his repeated requests to adjust the policies to current realities have been rebuffed by Pentagon authorities.

The three-star general, who has a reputation for speaking bluntly, said the situation has reached a point where the Army Reserve is "in grave danger of being unable to meet" its operational requirements in the event other national emergencies arise. Insistence on restrictive policies, he continued, "threatens to unhinge an already precariously balanced situation in which we are losing as many soldiers through no use as we are through the fear of overuse."

His pointed remarks represent the latest in a rising chorus of warnings from military officers and civilian defense specialists that the strains of overseas missions are badly fraying the Army. The distress has appeared most evident in reservist ranks. Last month both the Army Reserve and the National Guard disclosed significant recruiting slumps.

Helmly's memo was addressed to General Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, and was sent up the command chain through the office of General Dan McNeill, who oversees Army Forces Command. It surfaced yesterday in the Baltimore Sun.
[...]
Helmly declined through a spokesman yesterday to discuss his memo, but he told the Sun on Tuesday that he had intended it to promote a frank exchange among Army leaders in advance of congressional hearings.

"The purpose of this memorandum is to inform you of the Army Reserve's inability . . . to meet mission requirements" associated with Iraq and Afghanistan, he wrote, "and to reset and regenerate its forces for follow-on and future missions."

"I do not wish to sound alarmist," he added. "I do wish to send a clear, distinctive signal of deepening concern."
[...]”

“Leaders of the Church of the Brethren say they will follow through on a request from the Selective Service to have "alternative service" programs in place for conscientious objectors if a draft is reinstated.

As one of the historic "peace churches" that shun military service, Brethren officials were "cautious" after an unannounced visit by a draft official to a church center in Maryland last October. Officials were worried that the visit signaled that a draft may be at hand.

In follow-up meetings, draft officials urged the church to dust off long-standing "alternative service" programs that allow conscientious objectors to serve in two-year domestic service projects in lieu of military service.

In a meeting Dec. 10, the church's council voted to "maximize our efforts" on alternative service, as well as help "guide our youth in their choice of nonviolent service."

"We don't want to miss the part of providing resources to our youth that will help them understand and embrace the Brethren peace witness," said Chris Bowman, moderator of the church's 2004 conference.

continued...”

“I coulda haaaaaaad, religion!!”

“LMAO

'Spirituality interviews with Playboy's Miss November, Bono, Marilyn Manson, and George W. Bush and more'

Ads for Opra's Weight Loss and Pictures of girls in small bikinis.

Yep, good Wacky Left source. LOL”

“It would be easier to know how to respond if I had any idea what you're talking about.

Put down the crack pipe, SS.”

“LMAO You don't even bother to read and explore your own links!”

“Yeah Viola, your source is all quackery.........or some such boogity-woogity nonsense.”

“Does this help, SS?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/06/reservists/index.html”

“"LMAO You don't even bother to read and explore your own links!"

You are the only one laughing, dude.

Holy crap, Treebeard!!
Don't you know that's the Clinton News Network?
last edited: 1/06/05 2:04:52 PM”

“http://www.beliefnet.com/story/158/story_15893_1.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/93/story_9363_1.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/23/story_2310_1.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/93/story_9363_1.html

Buy you books...
Send you the school...
No use.”

“You sent me a school?”

“Huh, what's the point?

Even if you rule out that whacky religious website, there is trouble in River City......that five-sided fortress on the Potomac.”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military "is clearly stressed," and recruitment of new troops is falling short of plans, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Sunday.

"It's clearly stressed, but they're performing brilliantly," Rumsfeld said on CNN's "Late Edition." "They're doing a fabulous job, and we're adjusting the incentives and the number of recruiters that are out."

But recent recruiting goals have not been met, exacerbating an already unsatisfactory situation, Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said last week.

"As it pertains to the National Guard, the Army National Guard in particular, we were woefully underequipped before the war started," he told the House Armed Services Committee. "It's getting -- gets a little bit worse every day."

The National Guard makes up about 40 percent of the U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq, Blum said.

The chief of the Army National Guard, Lt. Gen. Roger C. Schultz, told the House panel that the Guard met only 56 percent of its recruiting quota in January.

The Marine Corps fell 3 percent short of its recruiting goal for January, the first time the Marines have missed a monthly goal since 1995, Maj. Dave Griesmer, spokesman for Marine Corps Recruiting Command, told The Associated Press.

more...”

“[BUZZZZZZ] Survey says...bullchit...


All of the U.S. Military services, with the exception of the Army and Air National Guard met their recruiting and retention goals for Fiscal Year 2004 (which ended on September 30), according to Department of Defense (DOD) recruiting documents.

The Army enlisted 77,587 soldiers through September, besting the year's goal by 587 soldiers.

Through Sept. 29, the Navy reported that it enlisted 39,874 sailors, bettering its goal by 254 sailors.

The Air Force said it enlisted 34,362 service members for the year, topping its recruiting goal by 282 people.

The Marine Corps reported it had enlisted 36,794 service members for the fiscal 2004, which topped its goal by 21 enlistees.

The Coast Guard recruited 3,809 over their recruiting goal of 3,800. It should be noted that the services purposely do not exceed their recruiting goals by large factors, because this may cause them to exceed the authorized active duty strength levels imposed by Congress.

Instead, before the new fiscal year even begins, the services start signing many recruits into the Delayed Enlistment Program (DEP), so they will enlist on active duty and ship out to basic training during the next fiscal year (in effect, getting a "head start" on the next fiscal year's recruiting goals).

Even though the the services are only a few days into the new fiscal year (FY 2005), thousands of recruits are already waiting in the DEP. The Army is a little worried because they have significantly fewer members in the DEP at the start of this fiscal year than they had at the beginning of FY 2004, but officials admit that FY 2004 began with an unusually higher number of recruits in the DEP (as compared to prior years). Last year, the Army had about 35 percent of their FY 2004 recruiting goal waiting in the DEP at the start of the fiscal year. This year, the number has decreased to about 18 percent. However, officials anticipate few problems meeting their FY 2005 goal. To help ensure this, the Army is planning to put 1,000 more recruiters into the field and make more agressive use of enlistment bonuses and other enlistment incentives throughout FY 2005.

Meanwhile, the Air Force and the Navy have decreased the number of recruits they will be enlisting in FY 2005. Both of the services are over their congressionally-mandated active duty end strength, and must decrease in size by the end of the fiscal year.

Unfortunately, the National Guard is not doing as well. Both the Army and the Air National Guard reported that they'd missed their 2004 enlisted recruiting objectives. Many people join the National Guard with the expectation of part-time service (one weekend per month, and four weeks per year). However, in the past several years, it's become more and more common to mobilize National Guard forces to supplement active duty combat deployments. Some Guard members find themselves recalled to active duty for periods of one to two years. As of October 6, there were 173,335 members of the Reserves and National Guard who were mobilized in support of the "War on Terrorism."

Surprisingly, however, while the Army and Air National Guard missed their FY 2004 recruiting goal, the Army, Naval, Marine Corps and Air Force Reserve said they'd met their recruiting goals for the year.



http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/2004recruitgoal.htm”

“Don't believe Rumskull, Violin.

It's really getting better......every day!

I just know it is!”

“You do realize Nigal, that your post confirms what mine said?”

“On a few points but what my main purpose for posting was to dispute the crux of your post. The purpose of your post is to further the fear of “Oh my gawd what’ll we do! The draft is coming! The draft is coming! See I told you so!”. Trying to prove there’s going to be a draft based on a single months stats is dumber than owl shlt.”

“The people that enter military service either do it to honor their country or for the money. Those that need the money don't join the Guard. The people that join the guard often go their to get the education benefits. It's not easy to get your degree while in Iraq so I'm sure many are looking to other sources of aid. The military is a great place for young people to learn a skill they can later use in civilian life as well as earn the GI Bill. There are many more personell serving outside of Iraq than in Iraq. My friends son who is currently serving as a navigator on a Trident sub has little chance of serving in Iraq. My coworkers son who is now 18 and about to graduate high school, has no plans to join the military. He may see Iraq or Iran in his near future though. It is all about the draft and your MOS (Military Occupational Skill).”

“Some of the most succesful Empires "recruited" from conquered peoples.

So all we need to do is gobble up some more territory and "BAM! Instant Army!"”

“Great one BearMagnet. Swear allegiance to Rome or be a slave! But uugh? Rome Fell!”

“All Empires Fall. How long did Rome last?

The Iroquois practiced this also and quite succesfully.”

“So do fire ants.”

“"Rome Fell!"

Stay tuned.....

There are lots of Mexicans looking for work.”

“I think people join the guard with the hope that they won't have to serve, but they do want to commit to the nations readiness. They are more likely to be trying to not want to be uprooted.

It doesn't seem like there is a big problem at this point, as Nigals post combined with Violins suggests. There may be some worrying trends from the military's point of view, but we are well aware from any critical point.”

“Ped, I think it would be awesome if the military had a volunteer program where people could volunteer their time filling non combat rolls that would free up the full time professional soldiers to be better placed.”

“Not all MOS's in the Army are combat arms.

You think the cooks should be fighting and a buncha volunteer retirees can do the cooking?

Most of us still have to work for a living.
last edited: 2/07/05 12:05:35 PM”

“Nigal, that program is a proven one. The whole nation was one during WWII. We just need leadership that leads not politicians greed.”

“You think the cooks should be fighting and a buncha volunteer retirees can do the cooking?”
MarkO
12:05:03 PM
2/07/05
ignore this user

Maybe. Ever see "Under Siege?”
8D”

“The cooks are now hired by Haliburton. Much of the maintence, repair, cooking, etc. is already done by contractors.”

“Yes it is, bateaux.

And instead of being done at cost, it's done for profit.

I think that's a bit fishy.

It opens the door for corruption and racketeering........at our expense.”

“And instead of being done at cost, it's done for profit.

I think that's a bit fishy.

LOL - yes, heaven forbid that a company makes a profit when hired by the government. There's real criticism to be leveled against the government's practices of hiring & paying contractors. But that's far from it!”

“Army vice chief of staff Cody worried about future of all-volunteer military

By Jon R. Anderson, Stars and Stripes

WASHINGTON — The Army’s vice chief of staff says he’s been losing sleep lately over the future of the all-volunteer force.

“What keeps me awake at night is what this all-volunteer force will look like in 2007,” Gen. Richard Cody told lawmakers recently on Capital Hill.

It’s a concern others should share, he says.

“I think it ought to keep all of you awake,” he told a gathering of reporters Wednesday.

Nearly 31 years since it replaced the draft Army of both world wars, Korea and Vietnam, the all-volunteer force is facing its first real test, Cody said.

“This is the first time we’ve taken the all-volunteer force into an extended fight,” Cody said. “It’s not a Kosovo, it’s not a Bosnia, it’s not a [Multinational Force and Observers peacekeeping mission] in the Sinai,” he said. “It is a war. On any given day, we have 156,000 soldiers for 12 months in a combat zone, as well as — still — all those other commitments.”

It’s a pace that could be crippling, he said.

“I worry about the soldiers with their second and third tour by ’07 since 9/11,” Cody said.
[...]
For the first two months of the year, both Army and Marine Corps recruiters have failed to meet their quotas to sign up new volunteers.

“That, correctly so, is a concern,” Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff told Pentagon employees Friday during a town hall meeting.
[...]”