Bringing back the draft?

“My post is completely moot because Buddha's post was a troll of the weakest order. :)”

““We don't need a draft. If all of these flag-wavin' patriotic republicans would join the great cause over there in Iraq, we'd have troop levels where they need to be.

But, alas, you can't force cowards to do anything brave, you have to draft them.”
Buddha Bear
6:59:47 PM
11/27/06




snip....Even more hypocritical is the treatment Democrats have given Republicans with military service. They try to smear them as they did WWII veterans George H. W. Bush during the 1992 election campaign and Sen. Bob Dole in 1996.

The worst hypocrisy of all, however, is the current leadership of the Democratic Party. They are all, by their own definition, "chickenhawks," who favored sending our brave military personnel to die for their country in the
Balkans, Africa, Iraq, Haiti and elsewhere. Here is a partial list:

President Bill Clinton - The preeminent chickenhawk. Clinton, who loathed the military, frequently deployed them during his administration.
Sen. Hillary Clinton - She was antiwar, then prowar, then antiwar, then prowar ... yet never served a day in the military.

California Congresswoman, and future Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi - This millionaire's wife has no military experience.

Nevada Sen. Harry Reid - While he does not have any military service, he was a Capitol Hill police officer. So he has served his country in uniform. However, the "snakedove" Democrats don't see it that way. Ergo he is included as a chickenhawk (by their definition, not mine).

Democratic Party Chairman, Howard Dean - The architect of the Democratic Party's military veteran initiative, got a medical deferment for the Vietnam War draft and went skiing.

Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel - He served as a Clinton administration staffer and Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee leader. He's served everywhere except in the military.

Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy - This senior Senate Democrat once said that "tragically, we're going to have to expect more American casualties from land mines" during Bosnia operations ordered by Clinton. He served on the Senate Intelligence Committee and had to resign for leaking classified information to the news media. No military service.

Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden - He has served on the Democratic Party steering committee - not in the military.

California Rep. Jane Harman - While she may be the wealthiest politician in Congress - she has no military service.

Illinois Sen. Durbin - The man who was so quick to compare US military guards in Guantanamo to Nazis never served in the military.
New York Sen. Chuck Schumer - He has served as a member of the Democratic Leadership Committee, however, he has not served in the military.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama - He has been touted as a future Democrat President - the future commander in chief of the Armed Forces. Yet, he has no military service.

Michigan Sen. Carl Levin - He will be the Democrat Chairman of the Armed Services Committee despite the fact he has never been in the military.
Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut - The Democrats biggest Iraq War Hawk did not serve in the military (and has not been called a chickenhawk).
Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh - This senator's son, and possible presidential candidate, has no military service.

Considering the dearth of military veterans among the Democrats, maybe they should consider changing their symbol from a donkey to a chickenhawk. .....

http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17508867&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=580169&rfi=6”

“DGX--50.81 -1.05.”

“Chickenhawks?

You don't say...”

“

”

“snip......Even more hypocritical is the treatment Democrats have given Republicans with military service. They try to smear them as they did WWII veterans George H. W. Bush during the 1992 election campaign and Sen. Bob Dole in 1996.

The worst hypocrisy of all, however, is the current leadership of the Democratic Party. They are all, by their own definition, "chickenhawks," who favored sending our brave military personnel to die for their country in the
Balkans, Africa, Iraq, Haiti and elsewhere. Here is a partial list:

President Bill Clinton - The preeminent chickenhawk. Clinton, who loathed the military, frequently deployed them during his administration.
Sen. Hillary Clinton - She was antiwar, then prowar, then antiwar, then prowar ... yet never served a day in the military.

California Congresswoman, and future Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi - This millionaire's wife has no military experience.

Nevada Sen. Harry Reid - While he does not have any military service, he was a Capitol Hill police officer. So he has served his country in uniform. However, the "snakedove" Democrats don't see it that way. Ergo he is included as a chickenhawk (by their definition, not mine).

Democratic Party Chairman, Howard Dean - The architect of the Democratic Party's military veteran initiative, got a medical deferment for the Vietnam War draft and went skiing.

Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel - He served as a Clinton administration staffer and Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee leader. He's served everywhere except in the military.

Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy - This senior Senate Democrat once said that "tragically, we're going to have to expect more American casualties from land mines" during Bosnia operations ordered by Clinton. He served on the Senate Intelligence Committee and had to resign for leaking classified information to the news media. No military service.

Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden - He has served on the Democratic Party steering committee - not in the military.

California Rep. Jane Harman - While she may be the wealthiest politician in Congress - she has no military service.

Illinois Sen. Durbin - The man who was so quick to compare US military guards in Guantanamo to Nazis never served in the military.
New York Sen. Chuck Schumer - He has served as a member of the Democratic Leadership Committee, however, he has not served in the military.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama - He has been touted as a future Democrat President - the future commander in chief of the Armed Forces. Yet, he has no military service.

Michigan Sen. Carl Levin - He will be the Democrat Chairman of the Armed Services Committee despite the fact he has never been in the military.
Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut - The Democrats biggest Iraq War Hawk did not serve in the military (and has not been called a chickenhawk).
Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh - This senator's son, and possible presidential candidate, has no military service.

Considering the dearth of military veterans among the Democrats, maybe they should consider changing their symbol from a donkey to a chickenhawk. .....

http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17508867&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=580169&rfi=6

*********************************************

[VBG]”

“Wow Stovie!

That's a lot of hypocrisy you gots there.”

“I thought the commander in chief was supposed to intentionally be a civilian (meaning military experienece not required) to protect us from becoming a military state.

Is it not the commander in chief's job to impose on the military objectives of the popular civilian majority? Are not the top generals supposed to figure out how to then implement that?

True, that traditionally in the past war heroes have been elected after a successful war campaign. But what happens if there haven't been any successful war campaigns in recent times (for peace or worse reasons)?”

“You've got it, Phantom Soul.

The military works for us.”

“Is it not the commander in chief's job to impose on the military objectives of the popular civilian majority?

No, actually it's not. Agree w/ rest of your post though.”

“Given the current performance of our high leadership - both military and civilian - I think I'm willing to roll the dice with these people.

What I find interesting, however, is the consensus view that seems to be developing for a two-year drawdown of forces.

That seems to be the gist of the "Iraq Study Group" (BTW, find that little group in the Constitution anywhere). And it also seems to be the basic position of Sen. Levin on the Democrat Party side.

Both parties seem to be converging on that course of action.

But I think that it would be a mistake to reduce our force levels in Iraq. Our presence keeps the neighboring states from direct intervention. We don't seem to be losing more than the usual numbers of troops. And the world price of oil seems to have stablized.

I think that the best course of action currently is to resign ourselves to the current levels of troop losses for the next decade or two and to try to minimize the destruction of the current civil war.”

“When the US stops acting like the lone superpower it has become and realize we have begun to destroy the safeguards that made us so great, then sanity will return to this great country.”

“This is hilarious......I see where the Dems will gut the Missile Defense systems....for you in the CLINTON/LORAL AEROSPACE North Korea/China target system (California/Oregon/Washtington)./....this should be a hoot.”

“WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday, a major change that reflects an Army stretched thin by longer-than-expected combat in Iraq.

The day after President Bush announced his plan for a deeper U.S. military commitment in Iraq, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters the change in reserve policy would have been made anyway because active-duty troops already were getting too little time between their combat tours.

The Pentagon also announced it is proposing to Congress that the size of the Army be increased by 65,000, to 547,000 and that the Marine Corps, the smallest of the services, grow by 27,000, to 202,000, over the next five years. No cost estimate was provided, but officials said it would be at least several billion dollars.

Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.

In other words, a citizen-soldier could be mobilized for a 24-month stretch in Iraq or Afghanistan, then demobilized and allowed to return to civilian life, only to be mobilized a second time for as much as an additional 24 months. In practice, Pace said, the Pentagon intends to limit all future mobilizations to 12 months.

Members of the Guard combat brigades that have served in Iraq in recent years spent 18 months on active duty — about six months in pre-deployment training in the United States, followed by about 12 months in Iraq. Under the old policy, they could not be sent back to Iraq because their cumulative time on active duty would exceed 24 months. Now that cumulative limit has been lifted, giving the Pentagon more flexibility.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070112/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_military”

“And your point is?”

“I actually think that this is a GOOD idea.

How many times can I say it?

WE NEED MORE TROOPS.

I don't care how we get them. And it doesn't matter if we leave Iraq or not. We do not have enough soldiers to meet the nation's needs.”

“Sounds like a BUSH supporter.”

“Sounds like an American.”

“LOL”

“That's what I like about you, RL.
What an amazing and confusing mix of left and right you are.
Makes you interesting, LOL.”

“You're right Stovie, RL is right, in the since of right vs wrong, rather than vs left.”

““Sounds like a BUSH supporter.”

No way! Even Squinty McGeee is smart enough to know a draft is a horrible idea. The quality of soldiers goes way down as the casualty rates go way up.”

“I would like to see ANYONE elected into office,first have duty as a coreman.Then you will see a caring unit.

We have lost the upper hand due to greed.”

“coreman??? What's that?”

“Sorry ..sp.BUT to only post on me is wrong ,in what they do to help.”

“Hmmmm... 'backdraft'?”

“I think he meant corpsman. A navy medic.”

“ANYONE elected into office must be a Navy medic first?

Makes about as much sense as anything else coming out of the wingbats.”

“The point being..... put in that spot and seeing death that way would sure make these pretty boys think before killing.

Maybe we should make more bombs.”

“Sure and we could require that people who complain about the war must have lived in Iraq under Saddam.”

“I guess we could require the wars promoters to be on the ground there.”

“Hatred, revenge, oil, prostitution, drugs are a few of the addictions that are never dealt with on the demand side. Throw in the addiction to the dollar and you have just defined the clusterfcuk in which we live.”

“How about having those that send our men and women to war, actually having been in a war.

Hearing Vice President Dick Cheney say the United States must show it has the "stomach" to win in Iraq" is laughable considering his record for deferments during Vietnam. How did he put it...."I had better things to do"”

“This thread is 4 years old. It isn't going to happen. We don't need a draft and we won't have a draft.

I served in the armed forces and was deployed during Desert Storm. I support the President in the current war.

3,000 troops dead in 4 years isn't really that much. The armed forces lose at least that many in accidents back home. We lost 400,000 in 3 and a half years of war during WWII.”

“Yeah. But we were actually trying to win WWII.”

“In WWII we knew who the enemy was.”

“I wish Cheney had had better things to do than return to gov't work.”

“He could have practiced on some lawyers I've met.”

“Just checking on how many more today?”

“"...Now that cumulative limit has been lifted, giving the Pentagon more flexibility."

While this will have an impact on the one/s immediately around the change in policy if we are to make one more try of this, the military needs to "go to the well" a little and have this type of flexibility.

"3,000 troops dead in 4 years isn't really that much. The armed forces lose at least that many in accidents back home. We lost 400,000 in 3 and a half years of war during WWII"

Comparing two different wars, with very different technology used in them, is an unfair comparison. IMHO, the upgrades in battle "gear" and technique has saved those lives. We have to take a look at the amount wounded that would have been otherwise killed to get a real feel for some sort of a fairer comparison.

BTW -- Many more have died between both actions, which constitutes the WOT, or Global Struggle Against Terrorism, or what ever the hell it's called nowadays.”

“If a direct attack on the USA, By a sovereign nation would be criteria for a draft, only Waco would qualify.”

“I thought Japan was a sovereign nation when they attacked Pearl Harbor.”

“Hawaii was not a state until 1949. It was an American Territory attacked by Japanese forces. Not a direct attack on the continental United States itself.

Bullets and bombs (IED's) haven't changed that much since WWII. Dismounted infantry are under the same risk of being shot and killed now as back in the 1940's. Unless the Terrorist start flying MIG 29s with laser guided bombs at our troops.”

“Mexico under Fox was close to qualifying, the new guy has'nt yet shown his hand, but probably will camp in the same spot.”

“"Unless the Terrorist start flying MIG 29s with laser guided bombs at our troops."

Or maybe F-14-15-16s provided by the U.S. government in the '70s and '80s.”

“"Dismounted infantry are under the same risk of being shot and killed now as back in the 1940's."

Body armor alone saves a lot of people, who would be dead otherwise; same for weapon advancements, which are more "fire and forget", from a great distance.”

“Nothing will ever replace an extremely physically fit man with a rifle.”

“Hey I agree only people with Military COMBAT experience can lead a nation through a war...like FDR! Yeah Like FDR, Or Abraham Lincoln, or OH Wait...neither one had military experience....wow....”

“Warriors who train with pebbles in their mouth, but still carry a sword should head that list.”

“LOL....sale...how bout a world law they have to train with Swords in their mouths and can carry only pebbles (the little rocks, not Fred's Daughter).”