Bringing back the draft?

“I think that everyone who signs up knows what there getting into, however, they don't want it to happen. I'm sure that everyone who joins has there own reasons, as our Military offers excellent skills to those enlisting. I personaly know at 10 people who joined and have enjoyed the benifits of there experiance. That being said, I am assuming that "Kill or be killed" is not on the top of the list for most joining. I myself was just hours away from joining the Navy after high school. Am I glad I didn't? Yes, but not because of the Navy, it was because that would have taken me down a road (with a former girlfriend) that I'm glad I didn't travel, not because I didn't want to serve, but because I would not have now what I have (my family now), if that makes any sence. I appauled those who offer there serves to our Military. It's one of the most honorable things to do for your country. That is why I only want THE BEST for our people in uniform!”

“Aren't there something like 20,000 folks over there who thought they were signing up for one weekend a month and two weeks a year?”

“A graduate!
"It was pressure from the street that brought the war in Vietanm to a close, which I might remind everyone, was another situation where our troops were not put into a position to win.
-- laqtis
09:44:42 PM
11/05/03


Come on Q! Trying to equate this with Vietnam is utter nonsense.
-- Nigal
10:54:36 PM
11/05/03



From the Wingnut Debating School:

The War on Analogy, which is one of my favorites, is when conservatives pick apart an analogy by bringing in utterly irrelevent details. For example, if I write "Iraq is, in many ways, like Vietnam," a graduate of the wingnut debating school will respond with "You're wrong! Iraq is in the Middle East!""
vIOLIN
09:35:35 AM
11/06/03

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"That's quite a stretch to suggest that's what Nigil's doing."
Mutt
09:40:31 AM
11/06/03

To paraphrase:

Laqtis: Protest led to a closer examination of our operations in Vietnam. It could do the same in this case.

Nigal: It is nonsense to equate anything about this war with Vietnam.

IMO, Violin is pretty close to correct.”

“I agree, Phaedrus, that your paraphrase makes Violin's response "pretty close to correct."”

“festering chancre...

Lets look at spams own words..."I especially do because I am responsible for putting almost 700 people in the Army over the last 16 years.I never ever lied to them and made sure that each and every one knew what they were getting into. I had a great recruiter that told me the real deal and I tried to do the same for all my recruits.Now since I retired I feel guilty for not being there to watch their backs."
Spam
09:40:11 PM
11/05/03”

“I don't think I took anything out of it's original context.”

“I fully concur with your sentiment about joining/not joining. I am nervous about being activated, mostly for the reason you stated, my family. I would hate to have to go away from all of things that I consider normal now. Family, job, friends, all of that. But if I had to, I did volunteer, and I am willing to accept the consequence of that.”

“Tahoe - Let me go on record with you and all others who might read this:

My family and I thank you and all the others who have served this country. Without you, this country would be in far worse shape than it is. It is because of you, my family and I get to enjoy the freedoms you protect. I wish ALL warriors peace, honesty and positive vibes for you and your families. Again, THANK YOU!!”

“Thank you.”

“Q, your last post was right on!”

“"EVERY" potential recruit is asked in the application phase of enlistment (BEFORE ENLISTMENT)if he or she is a "contiencious objector" and the meaning is explained to them.If they have ANY objection to war or participation in war they must divulge that information and I always thought that it was a disqualification because I had never had anyone say YES.Well one day a young lady said yes and come to find out she could still enlist. She decided on a job in the medical field. She opposed war but decided to serve the ones that did not.”

“I wish that we had a commander in chief who was willing to go to a few funerals. He should be a man and face up to his decisions.

I just feel that Bush is one of the most self-isolating leaders we've ever had. He rarely does press conferences. He hardly ever leaves the country. His public appearances are very controlled.

And he seems so out of touch when he speaks. Just in the past few days he went spouting off about creating a series of democracies in the Mid-east. Jeez. Just get the power on in Baghdad.

BTW, I think a clear difference has to be made between war support and support for Bush. Whoever the next president is, he will have to fight this war effectively. We just can't pull the troops out in an unseemly fashion. And an unfinished job will damage our national credibility for a long time.

So, I am starting to lean away from Howard Dean and towards more establishment Democrats - Kerry/Gephardt or Clark. They are men who could credibly fight this war with more than one eye open.

Finally, I'd hate to see a reelected Bush with no need to ask for votes again. That's when a draft could happen. He'd be almost completely impervious to the public will.”

“"I wish that we had a commander in chief who was willing to go to a few funerals. He should be a man and face up to his decisions...."


I agree. But it'll never happen. He's banned people from taking any photos of coffins coming off the plane, so I don't he's got the balls to look those parents in the face. He'll send Rummy and the likes like he always does.

birch - thank YOU, man!

Spam - Question: Why would a person who is a contiencious objector join in the first place? The college bennies or what? That's interesting!”

“I didn't really understand myself laqtis. She was a Minnonite and said she wanted to help but not kill.I also explained that she would be trained with weapons and that even though the Geneva Convention protected medical personel that it really didn't matter in a real war.”

“Well, I guess it's cool that the Military does that. Let people help any way they can!”

“"He's banned people from taking any photos of coffins coming off the plane, so I don't he's got the balls to look those parents in the face."

Q, it was the Clinton admin that instituted that ban. It has been in effect sense the mid to late 90's.”

“War is fun to talk about in peace times,but......”

“My bad. My info that I posted was from Faux News on my Revlution is Now thread, with the headline "Attack Dispels Hopes of War's Quick End"

snip:

Back in Washington, the Pentagon has banned photographs of the arriving coffins of U.S. dead. In Iraq, at the site of the helicopter shootdown, American troops tried to confiscate news photographers' digital camera disks. No matter: The picture from Iraq, day by day, will grow sharp and clear.


My guess is that Faux News might not be a reliable source of information?”

“Here's the link to the story:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101961,00.html”

“Here's an interesting link:

http://beta.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1011409/posts

Not sure how reliable it is but they are stating that past restrictions have been on Dover AFB (I guess where they arrive in the US and the latest ban is on Ramstien (They rock!) and all conected locals on US bases.

We're both right.”

“That's a neat little website ya got there. I agree with the part of the piece:

"The photos would be disturbing to anyone and -- if the war goes on much longer -- politically damaging to the president. But the families of the fallen Americans should not have to grieve alone. We can only share by knowing......"

.....and I'm not saying that to furter any agenda. I wouldn't want those pictures on everyday, just that those who have fallen should be honored by our people every so often. Maybe it too much of a double edged sword......


So much for keeping off the political threads, eh? :)”

“I had posted the info on the Bush in 2004 thread yestarday cause I couldn't remember where you had posted it before. Sense it came up again I figured I'd just repsost it.”

“I haven't had the opportunity to confirm this yet --- but I heard some talking head say (in passing) that Charlie Rangle and Zell Miller have made recent comments in favor of reinstating the Draft.”

“Rangel has been pushing it since before the war as a way of making the privileged (and non-serving) class share in the sacrifice.”

“Rangel has a twisted theory if he thinks that would work.”

“Yes, I remember the Champagne Squadron of the Texas Air National Guard.”

“Salon's Article on the draft boards.”

“from the Salon article....

"The closest parallel to the Iraq situation is the British in Northern Ireland, where you also had some people supporting the occupying army and some opposing them, and where the opponents were willing to resort to terror tactics," says Charles Peña, director of defense studies at the libertarian Cato Institute. "There the British needed a ratio of 10 soldiers per 1,000 population to restore order, and at their height, it was 20 soldiers per 1,000 population. If you transfer that to Iraq, it would mean you'd need at least 240,000 troops and maybe as many as 480,000."


Jesus Murphy.”

“Of course, the current plan is to supplement American troops with Iraqis.”

“They'll have to do something. The Turks just pulled there support today.”

“How about an added tax on all Americans (without family serving in the military) when the president or congress sends our troops into war?

Right now I don't see how anybody other than the above mentioned are sacrificing. This might make politicians think twicw about getting us involved.”

“I think that people should see exactly those kinds of photos. Coffins, bloody bodies, and the death and destruction that comes with any type of war. It may serve to change the way everyone views even the thought of going to war, and if not, at least they would have a better idea of how the whole war thing really worked.
One dead soldier is equal to one destroyed family. This is an important thing to keep in mind.”

“They'll only think twice about it, if they are the only ones taxed! And please don't give them another idea for a tax. It seems that they always spend more than they collect in their Ponzi Scheme.”

“Whoever banned photographs of caskets being unloaded, it was a good thing. Think of the family members. What should be a solemn and private moment shouldn’t be turned into a media circus. Using photos of soldier’s caskets for political purposes would be morally reprehensible.

If Bush were to attend even one funeral, he’d have to attend them all. He’d be so busy he wouldn’t be able to get anything else done (which might not be so bad).”

“While it could be considered an honor for Bush to attend a fallen soldier's funeral it would also be a circus! Can you imagine your son or daughter's funeral attended by twelve secret servce, more media, etc?

Bush might risk recieving the brunt of a wife's or parent's anger too. Grief is a weird thing, full of phases, not all of which are logical or sensible, all of which are emotional.

He's better off sending letters.”

“How about an added tax on all Americans (without family serving in the military) when the president or congress sends our troops into war?


That would mean that the entire Congress would be subject to that tax... Hmmm”

“Make it a progressive tax and I'd buy it, maybe....

I really think we're taxed too much in the first place.”

“Q has a point...”

“"Iraqis are grateful for the tremendous efforts and sacrifices
the United States is making on our behalf. Yet, ultimately,
only Iraqis themselves can restore security, rebuild national
institutions, enact a constitution and elect a democratic
government. America must not rebuff Iraqis who are eager to have a
stake in this intimate national process. Like any free people, we
want to ensure that we are in control of our own destiny." --Iyad
Alawi, president of the Iraqi Governing Council for the month
of October.”

“Plans are in the works for reducing the overall U.S. force presence
in Iraq by the spring -- and this will be accomplished in part by
deploying around 20,000 active duty Marines for long-term tours
on that battlefront in the war with Jihadistan. In addition,
about 43,000 Reserve and National Guard service-members have
received notice of a possible year-long tour in Iraq or Kuwait.

There are new concerns for tank crews in Iraq. Recently, an
M1A1 Abrams on routine patrol in Baghdad had an unknown yellow
molten projectile penetrate its considerable armor, crippling
the 69-ton tank. The projectile entered through the vehicle's
skirt and drilled a quarter-inch hole through the hull into the
crew compartment, where it lodged in a hole 2 inches deep in the
armor across from its entry point. Fortunately, the heretofore
unknown projectile, most likely fired from an RPG, caused only
minor injuries to the Abrams's four-man crew, members of the 2nd
Battalion, 70th Armor Regiment, 1st Armor Division. We suspect
this new weapon projectile was likely Russian or French.

Speaking of France, not only were they supplying Iraq with
weapons after the UN embargo (weapons used against U.S. and allied
forces in Operation Iraqi Freedom), but they continue to refuse
any substantive support for Iraq's reconstruction. Of course,
according to the U.S. Treasury Department, the French still have an
outstanding debt from their liberation in WW II. (That's right,
folks -- in addition to the priceless debt eternally owed for
the tens of thousands of American lives lost liberating France,
the Vichy government still owes an estimated $11.8 billion in
principal and accrued interest on WW II reconstruction debt.)”

“And you believe every word of that, right?”

“critical thinking phaeddy.....check into it...”

“Those bogus stories about the French supplying Iraq were made up by Rummy and Company.
The retractions were made quietly with little attention from the media.

I read about a French armor-piercing weapon that turned up about ten years ago in Bosnia in Hackworth's book.
He toured a shop where knocked-out tanks were being repaired.
The tanks had pencil-size holes drilled/melted through the armor with little other damage.
The crew compartments had to be hosed out of human remains in the rehabilitaion process.

The French have been one of the world's major weapons makers for some time.
They have one or more annual weapons expos to "hawk"(ha ha!) their products.
The French are far from the world's number one producer.
That distinction belongs to the U.S.A.”

“"critical thinking phaeddy.....check into it..."
stratdewd
09:32:05 PM
11/08/03

I think I'll do that.”

“you should phaed. try seeing things from bush's point of view, rather than from the point of view of our sworn enemies. question the PR wing of the democratic party(the media elitist), the indoctrination of ourchildren(the NEA) and the pop culture (movie stars and musicians) that rags our president instead of a brutal tirant.

FIGHT THE POWER!


AND JIHAD BUSH!”

“paranoia strikes deep
into your life it will CREEP*






*the Committee to RE-Elect the President






"BWAH-HAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaaaa......"

-- Dogbert”

“I fart in strats general direction....




Plus---shake my dick at thee



what a YUTZ!”

“I have three teenage sons. There is no way in Hell, I am going to let this govenment put them in harm's way to defend Bush and his friends in the oil companies. Didn't we learn anything from Vietman?”

“I too have three teenage sons and I'm with you hikerjer.

Apparently we didn't learn much.

Just as before, Wall Street loves it.”