Bringing back the draft?

“The draft isn't a good thing.
I was subject to being drafted during the Nam period.
Not a good feeling.

Right now, it's just being used as a political football by Charlie Rangle, D. N.Y. to stir up feelings against war. He's the one that has been pushing a draft.
This is one of the more dishonest tacks the Demos are taking.

I think mid-america will have a fit when they discover their little girls will be drafted as well as their little boys this time around.”

“"I think mid-america will have a fit when they discover their little girls will be drafted as well as their little boys this time around."

Do you feel that women should be excluded? Women make fine soldiers. Plus, for every woman that's in the rear with the gear is one more guy that's where he can make more of a difference.”

“Stove, I think what Charlie Rangle is proposing is different then the question of will the demands on our military make a draft inevitable. Again the draft being good or bad is not the issue.”

“Stove, haven't heard anything about RAngle in the local news here. What premise is he selling it on that makes it a dishonest tactic?”

“Why would I think that about women Nigal?
That would be the worse sort of discrimination.
With equal rights, comes equal responsibility.”

“Tree it's a rich man poor man thing.”

“Tree - Rangle has been all over the national talk shows defending his wanting the draft back.
He is also one of the most lib anti war figures around.
It's just a ploy by him to get more antiwar feelings stirred up.
Why in the he11 would a antiwar type wish to enslave another generation of young people?”

“That sounds plausible, putting it that way...”

“Rangle says his reasoning is that if you draft the kids of politicians and the wealthy along with the poor that the government would not be as willing to send troops into harms way, because it would be their kids and the kids of their wealthy backers who would be at risk.”

“Twignut should just be getting of draft age by the Rangle gets his way.
Scary thought is it not?
Rangle wants your little girl enslaved to make a political point. :(”

“There should be better incentives for joining the military, and veterans benefits should not be cut.

That said, the draft is a bad idea in our society.”

“Stove I agree no draft, but can it be avoided regardless of Rangle. Rangles proposal wouldn’t have a chance in hell regardless of which party was in power. The driving force behind a possible draft at this time is our current situation not Charlie Rangle.”

“If I got drafted would that mean that Uncle Sam would have to pay my $1000 monthly student loan payments?”

“"for every woman that's in the rear with the gear is one more guy that's where he can make more of a difference."
Nigal
03:27:45 PM
03/25/04

Are you talking women with strap ons? Do they allow that in the military?”

“Now to be serious -

You want to get voted out of office vote for a draft.”

“A vote for Bush in the upcoming presidential election is a vote for the draft.”

“Instead of the draft how about we annex Canada and Mexico? Fresh meat for the Fodder cannons!!”

“Phaedrus, how can you say that?
The Demos are the ones pushing for a draft. The Repubs know better.”

“Stovstomper, if you'd like to see a small portion of my evidence for saying this, read this thread from the beginning.”

“Maybe we should stop being earth's police force?”

“Actualy, the more I look into it, the more I wonder if it can be avoided at all. It may happen either way.

One thing is for usre: a greater UN presence is one of the few realistic ways to reduce the possibility of such a scenario.”

“If I could type, the world would fall at my feet.”

“No. I think we need to pull out Where are we?”

“I'm VERY strongly in favor of a mandatory 2 year service to your country. Doesn't have to be military... van be a "peace Corps" type of service if you'd prefer, but EVERYONE should give back a little and learn a little about responsibilities & obligations.”

“I like the idea of service, but I'd still rather it be vountary. I like the idea of offering scholarships or intensive job training for service.

Some of these things are in place, but are being cut back.”

“I could also live with your idea, Wanderer.”

“Give back a Little? OK. Knock 20% off my taxes and I'll give back a little.”

“""I think mid-america will have a fit when they discover their little girls will be drafted as well as their little boys this time around."

Nigal



I graduated in 2000 and every male had to sing and return a selective service card, females dont even get cards to sign...if drafted i would go because i dont believe in going against your country...i may or may not agree with some of the policies or descisions but i think that to live in a country like the US where there is so much opportunity that you should make yourself available if summoned”

“Hey bearmagnet, how 'bout instead of asking you to "give back a little" & pay for the privlige of all America offers, we simply RAISE your taxes 20% instead. Would you like that?

Why are you against volunteering for your country? Doesn't have to be military... Peace Corps, whatever.”

“Do I need a reason to be against "volunteering"?

I pay for the privilige more than the rich do. They don't pay a lot o taxes and they certainly don't get drafted. And if there was mandatory service the rich would get the cushy Americorp jobs and we (or I) would get the infantry because I have no connections and no money.”

“So, once again, the response is to NOT ANSWER the question, but to B!TCH about something else.

I'll repeat myself bearmagnet...

1. What do you have against giving back a little to the country that gives you so much opportunity?

2. This was NOT a discussion about how you feel about the tax structure... it was a discussion about each of us having a responsibility to CONTRIBUTE or GIVE BACK to our country.

3. Do you feel no responsibility to contribute? Who do you think would best represent the interests of the U.S., if not the citizenry of the U.S.?”

“Let's dissect bearmagnet's comments:

"Do I need a reason to be against "volunteering"?"
RESPONSE: Yes, you do. EVERYONE who lives in a society should contribute to the betterment of that society, not just suck from it's tit. You need to justify why you DON'T want to be a part of the society you live in, and benefit from.


"I pay for the privilige more than the rich do."
RESPONSE: Really? How do you pay? Please tell us.


"They don't pay a lot of taxes and they certainly don't get drafted."
RESPONSE: Do you have any documentation to back up this asinine comment??? "They don't pay a lot of taxes"... do you know where the overwhelming majority of tax dollars come from??? The WEALTHY.

Secondly, and I'll make this personal... I have FRIENDS I grew up with and went to high school with who were KILLED in Vietnam after they were drafted. So get your #&%!$ together you a$$hole before you make idle comments anout who gets drafted and who doesn't. It GREATLY offends those of us who still go to the Vietnam Wall in Washington & pay respects to personal friends / relatives, etc. who paid the greatest price and are no longer with us.

"And if there was mandatory service the rich would get the cushy Americorp jobs and we (or I) would get the infantry because I have no connections and no money."
RESPONSE: Based upon what? Have any facts.... or, are you just "scared"???”

“I answered the question and I did not B*tch about anything. This country gives me the right not to serve or "volunteer". You seem to be angry at me for choosing that right. Why do I need to explain further? I used the tax structure as an example. So I'll spell it out back to you:

1. I give back through taxes

2. "giving back" i.e. serving in some way would not be equitable. Has the draft ever been fair? No Way. "Serving" in whatever capacity would work the same way.

3. best interest of the US? Pull out of every armpit country we are in.

Plus - I am morally oppossed to going off and killing someone b/c my govt feels some kind of outlandish threat is at hand. WWI & II, fine. Anything since? No.

If I were drafted for the Gulf Wars I would have said no thanks.

Now, what is so terrible about me not wanting mandatory service? I respect your opinion but I see no need in volunteering for a country that would treat me differently b/c of my status and lack of power.”

“Bearmagnet makes a good point about the inequality of the draft in the past based on race ans social class. Still, I'm inclined to agree with Wanderer that some form of service is of great benefit from citizens - there should be compensation for that service, though, and the benefits should make the service worthwhile for the individual.”

“I heard someone say that we have recruiting offices in Mexico City and Manilla. Is this true?

Is that how we maintain an all-volunteer army?”

“wanderer seems to be having a hissy fit. Why take it personaly? I have the utmost respect for people who have been drafted and/or killed in combat. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Please try to pay attention.

Not that this is really any of your business but I had an older brother who saw 'action" in Gulf war I and I have relatives on "the wall" (draftees).

DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING!

So get off your high horse and take that badge of your sleeve. Your not unique.

I love someone who can't debate with a cool head. Have fun with yourself.”

“Thanks Phaedrus. God forbid my opinion is different from wanderer. I'm out, for real.”

“Wow. i keep forgetting things. :)

Scared wanderer? Of the possibility of combat? Yes I would be. If your not then you are perfect military fodder and should be there.”

“"I heard someone say that we have recruiting offices in Mexico City and Manilla. Is this true?"

I'm not sure about where we have recruiting centers overseas, but there is a small percentage of our military who are not citizens. There was news about it during the war, those who are KIA are buried as citizens, and those who are WIA are moved to the front of the line for citizenship.”

“BTW - I'm not in favor of a draft, If the President ever goes on TV and says we need volunteers for combat I'll go.”

“I am also partial to the 2 year manditory service requirement. Reason we all have the ability to voice free speach and all the stuff we do is due to our servicemen in WWI ,WWII, I think that it should be required.”

“"I'm VERY strongly in favor of a mandatory 2 year service to your country. Doesn't have to be military... van be a "peace Corps" type of service if you'd prefer, but EVERYONE should give back a little and learn a little about responsibilities & obligations."

This is very doable IMHO. I know when I was fresh out of high school this would have been such a good thing for me. If I knew then what I know now…”

“If that's true then the army doesn't seem to be drawing enough citizens to fill the rolls. Why would they be doing it, otherwise?”

“Look, there's not gonna be a draft so don't worry about it. You get some analysts out there who are still making assumptions based on cold war ideas, and add a contingency plan from the pentagon (there are probably contingency plans for eliminating the population of Europe, doesn't mean anyone's serious about doing it.) And throw in some political agitation from Charlie Rangel... And the media gets another news angle to play for a little while.”

“A draft would sure help our little unemployment problem, wouldn't it. After all, most of the government spending going on is in the military, just where George likes it.

If they come for me, I'll go to Afghanistan, but not Iraq. If they try sending me to Iraq, y'all will have a place to stay when you're hiking in Canada.”

“Election year spewwwwwwwwwwww”

“Bison, I'd dispute those contentions with the PNAC document on strategy and war peacekeeping priorities that has basically defined this admin's foreign policy: Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century.

It makes clear the "necessity" of a standing army large enough to make immediate response to a third major theater threat while maintaining our current nationbuilding in two others.

Given our current fiscal situation and the outlook going forward, do you see another way for the military to add the men it needs to meet this criteria, considering the national guard has already been mobilized?”

“Bill H.R. 163
Representative Charlie Rangel (D-NY)
COSPONSORS(13), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1]
Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14]
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23]
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5]
Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8]
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13]
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

Bill S. 89
Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC)
Cosponsors (None)

Please vote all these people out of office. They all want a draft.

BTW: They are ALL Demos. Not a single Repub signed on.”

“Stovestomper, I think those particular politicians were spouting a game plan they knew they couldn't enact.

I'm talking about a military draft based on the national defense criteria that the military is currently overstretched.
They are two very different scenarios and only one of them is a serious threat, IMO.”

“Screwed up the dang title again! ;-)

Any how, donkeys or elephant does not matter. If they want a draft, vote their a$$es out of office ASAP!”