South Lake to North Lake via Lamarck Col

“Cubfan - I live in Placentia and one of the other hikers lives in Redlands. Let's keep that in mind as things get closer.”

“Geologyguy, that sounds like fun. As the time gets closer, landscaper and I may want to take you up on that. We're so last minute with packing, we might roll in at 3AM again.”

“WP, the good thing for you and J about going to Tahoe on Friday is that its almost halfway, and you can always just throw your stuff in the car and pack at the cabin.”

“I'm the one who will be coming from Redlands.”

“It'll be a late night dash up 395 for me - expect to get to the trailhead around midnight as usual.”

“Yohooo!! Winter solstice is in my review mirror, and the days are getting longer. July will be here before we know it.”

“My sentiments exactly about the solstice. I don't mind winter, but I want long days.

Not a bad idea about packing at the cabin. It would be fun to extend the outing another day.”

“I don't want to be a wet blanket but I thing you need to do some rethinking on milages and time. You have no slack time to make up unmeet expections or weather and your miles are unrealist for cross country anywhere and for the High Sierras it can kill you.
I go into this area for 10-14 days, on a 3-4 year av. Once I leave Midnight L I won't hike a trail untill I get back there, cross JMT twice. Distances are deceptive up in these rocks, what looks to be a mile will be three or more and there is no straight lines. The elev. line shows a 100' gain but you will go up and down 3 or 4 times that between those lines.
I have been hikeing for over 40 yrs and 4 landmasses, I do all seasons and any weather, I am not new at this. In av. cross country I will do 10-15 miles in 10 hrs of work. In the High Sierras half that is good.
Again, I'm not trying to slow you down but make you think about some things that don't come up in the thread. You can move only as fast as the slowest, water is not always the easiest to find, hear, not get to, it those rocks. And last, a what if, cross country is dangerous, rock hopping is worse and when those rocks are the size of a simi and part of a lose till broken legs are the least of a what if. Last time in there I spent four days backing my cousin out with a with a broken tib/fib.
Be informed, be Alert the world needs more lert.”

“I think the trip sounds good as it has been planned. I think the group going will be able to do the trip and if it ends up being too much I'm sure some modifications can be made when we're out there.”

“I am totally depending on others for good information on this trip's mileage, difficulty, etc.

One question I have is how much of the cross country hiking will be on use trails? The Sierra's are full of them...some are great and some are deceiving.

If we are doing anything like Sawtooth Pass on SierraPalooza, then we will be going pretty slow at times.”

“I think its important for everyone to have a general understanding of what they're getting themselves into regarding this trip. There is some cross county, but from what I've seen and read, the xc routes are fairly well traveled. Yes, there will be rock hopping, scrambling, and talus stuff, but theres also some open slabs, besides the JMT trail portion. I think it would be wise to look at a topo map and maybe read some from Seacor or Arnot about Ionian Basin and/or Darwin Canyon before committing to this trip. This is not a full-on trail walk, nor is it bushwacking. Any other questions, please refer to our leader: WD.”

“hay, no offence. The thread didn't seen to be very informative when it came to what where the trip was going. I like to have a plan for it all, excape routes, weather days and every one in the group knowing. All the what ifs covered. No plan survives contact
WD, you are the "leader", good luck, may your decisions always be
be correct, your routes be easy and your plan perfect.
I've not been that lucky.”

“I gave our son the Seacor (? spelling) book. I'll see if he can bring it home at Christmas and I'll copy whatever it has for the area.”

“Phil...Sawtooth was a cake walk for the 5 day group! You guys were going the wrong direction LOL!”

“oops, sorry TT, no offense was taken. Although I was serious about getting the word out about knowing "whatever" situation, it was light hearted. But I was serious about the leader thing.”

“WW - How right you are. When you were going down Sawtooth, did you imagine us going up?”

“Don't trust Secor completely. His class ratings seem a little off. Wingding knows. His class 2 can be a 3, etc.”

“Phil...yes I did :)
Josh and Nate loved scree skiing down Sawtooth one step and you slide 5 feet!

Trailtrekker...Ask WLD about Secor's easiest class 2 in the Palisades...LOL!”

“I'll have to ask him!! I'm sure I'll hear a good story!

Met Secor on coming down from Bishop Pass, unusual fellow. Had an odd spotted umbrella with him. Someone said he doesn't necessarily climb the peaks himself, but goes part way with someone else. There was a guy at the Pass who told us Secor was on his way up, I assume thats who was doing the real climbing that day.”

“Have to wait on getting Secor (thanks for the spelling help) back. My son's already on his way here, but I forgot to call last night :-(

I'll take a look at the route using Topo over the holiday break.

Also, anyone getting 2-way radios for Christmas? Is it too late to call Santa? Maybe that's what Landscaper wants for his birthday.”

“Hell no I'm not the leader.”

“Trinity Trekker - thanks for your advice. Every day on the trail isn't easy, but it's always rewarding.

I think this trip is going to be great.”

“Me, too.”

“Looked at Secor for a while and tried to follow on my Mapsource software again. Made more sense this time.

All the passes and cross country were rated Class 2, although there were some steep spots and some talus. Apparently the Lamark Col cross country route is one of the better ones.

I don't have time right now to copy what it says.

We will be on the JMT for the first 2.5 days and then again from Wanda Lake to Evolution Lake.

If I could find my Topo USA software I could look at it in 3D.”

“Correction to my above post. We will be on maintained trails for the first 2.5 days, not all on the JMT.”

“The route looks something like this:Maps of Route

From studying the route and going through photos, here are some major features you're going to experience:

1. Le Conte Canyon
2. Black Giant Divide Crossing
3. Ionian Basin
4. Goddard Divide Crossing
5. Largely above treeline
6. >>10,000+ ft most of the way
7. Alpine lakes everywhere
8. Glaciers up close (Goddard, Mendel, Lamarck)”

“Awesome maps!!!! Thanks, dude.

Looks like a challenging, but fascinating trip.”

“Kathy...sure is testy about being the leader...LOL!”

“Great Maps, Tekdude!!”

“Yes, great maps tekdude. That bypass route that stays on the JMT from Helen Lake to Wanda Lake will be a great option for those who want less xcountry travel. We can split up just into two groups just before Muir Pass and meet up again at Wanda Lake.

We might want to get a little higher up the second day to get away from the bugs in Big Pete Meadow - we can decide that when the time comes. I was able to get to between Big Pete Meadow and Helen Lake without much of a problem on the second day of my South Lake to Muir Pass trip a couple years ago.”

“HOT DANG TEKDUDE, those are sweet maps.

The trail you superimposed on the topo map is rather squiggly, showing switchbacks even, not what I'd expect from a mapping program. Have you hiked that trail before with GPS and those are the maps you made with the track(s)?”

“Teckie....doesn't do the same trail twice....til he runs out of trails anyway...that could take a lifetime in the Sierra.”

“When doing the JMT, I remember thinking, "Dang, I'm glad I don't have hike up this" when going down LeConte Valley. Looks like the time has come.”

“LOL, Rockman- I was thinking the same thing last year when doing North to South Lake!”

“1. New boots - done
2. Lower packweight by 10 lbs (New pack ordered, wish list compiled)
3. Lose 15 lbs - I'll start after New Years Day
4. Get in shape - (see #3)

This trip looks totally awesome...but challenging.”

“wingding - I noticed the option you mentioned, but the side trip looks too tempting to pass up. If someone wanted a gentler trip and a layover option, skipping Ionian Basin would be ideal.”

“Phil- Ya can't start dieting 'til after next weekend due to the AB trip, remember?? Big feast next Saturday night!
Everybody starting Jan. 5th (see Losing weight in 2004 thread) !!”

“Buddur - It's about squiggle factor. If GPS waypoints are going to be plotted along the route, the more precise with your drawing, the better you'll be able to track your progress. This includes the switchbacks and minor deviations.

To do this, I always zoom into the TOPO sofware by 200% and draw from there. Then enough waypoints are laid over the route to catch major sharp or gradual turns. I don't skimp on way points.

It's also about energy conservation. This GPS has brought me lots of places on much less the time and calories it would have otherwise taken.

BTW- I once heard that 32 +/- 2 squiggle trail segments equaled a mile. Never confirmed that, but you could count all those and mark your way from here, too. 8)”

“trailtrekker - You are absolutely right. In fact, I won't actually begin until January 6.

tekdude - I made a route for my Garmin eMap using Mapsource, but will do it over again now that I see the correct route. My GPS saved my butt on the first llama trip when we got caught in a hailstorm in Humphrey's Basin away from camp.”

“phil -

Ugh. Now there's a great reminder. I've been pretty bad at keeping my maps water-protected. Have to get out of that bad habit.

I've even ruined those nicely sealed Harrison maps. You know, when you're truckin' along in snowshoes, or whatever, and you just throw your map under your shirt, the map gets all sweaty and wet. The ink smears and there's no tellin' where you'll end up!”

“tekdude - That hailstorm actually ruined my Garmin 38. However, before it died I was able to get the bearing back to camp. I used my compass set on that bearing to get us back. You couldn't see more than 50 ft in some spots.

Had Nigal and Creekjumper with me...had to get them back alive!!!”

“Don't forget to mark you calendar for January 10th to reserve you permit.”

“Now that we can say this trip is later this year, we'd better start getting serious. The permit application wants to know who the "leader" of our adventure will be. My suggestion, since WD has aggressively declined being our leader, is to not fill in a leader on the individual applications. However, if anyone [Rockman/PC] wants me to include them on my application, contact me prior to January 10th.”

“Steve, consider yourself contacted! :)

Yeah, put me on your permit. I'll bring the snapps!”

“Done, and done.”

“Steve, do you any personal info, you know, address, ph #,... I can email it to ya.”

“Actually, I don't need any for your vitals [except maybe bank account numbers]. The permit just wants party size.”

“geologyguy - Can you put me down on your permit also? Why not?

One of the maybes for the trip is kelliforkili. She is a former student of mine and loves backpacking. She saw the backpacking pics in my office and we became good friends. I really hope she can make it!!”

“Phil, no problem.”

“Thanks!”