I Believe In God

“I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.

I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal?

It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of
Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

"But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.

And we are in the Bible Belt. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna? If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer. If I went to a ping-pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...

"But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them?

Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long.. it's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want.. it is time the majority rules!

It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray.. you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right.. but by golly you are no longer going to take our rights away .

We are fighting back.. and we WILL WIN! After all the God you have the right to denounce is on our side!

God bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him...

God bless America, despite all her faults.. still the greatest nation of all.....

God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God...

May 2004 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

Keep looking up......
In God WE Trust”

“nice Troll! Who told you the court was trying to keep you from praying? It's not now nor has it ever been illegal to pray.”

“Im with ya PhatLuvBunni. Im guessing that a lot of the posters here will not be though. "God" is way too offensive for too many people anymore.”

“Hey Phatso! Do what you want and pray whenever you want. The constitution of this great nation protects that right. It also protects my right not to have this nailed to the soles of my shoes by zealots like yourself who think that Christianity should be the absolute standard of the U.S. Maybe it would be more Christian of you to exercise equal tomerance of all religions and the freedoms thereof...”

“tomerance = tolerance”

“Phat is just passing along a popular e-mail forward. as for praying at a football game, that's 100% legal, provided it's not a school sponsored or mandated prayer.”

“C Bat, what makes you think God is offensive? I think the Catholic church is offensive for running a child sex racket. God has nothing to do with man's churches”

“God tells me NOT to pray at football games. He says the original translations of the Bible that people screwed up had stuff in there about it. He says phatluvbunny needs a good spanking but he didn't create ayone deranged enough to do it properly.

He also says I'm right, you're wrong.”

“I dont think God is offensive. I am comfortable with my relationship with Him. I agree, the Catholic church is all screwed up and thier lack of action in the recent child molestation incidents says an awful lot. My comment was directed toward the idea that so many are offended by the idea that God is mentioned at all in the public arena.”

“One other thing: God tells me that eating pork on Sundays while watching football and getting a blowjob from an intern is okay, as long as there are no cigars in the house.

If there are cigars, you must repent by spitting three times on freshly tilled soil while turning twice in a counter-clockwise direction.

I hope God doesn't offend anyone.”

“When are some people gonna realize that there is a difference between your freedom of religion and force feeding the unwilling segment of the population? HELLLOOOOO!!!!”

“God says Treebeard is still in the doghouse with the Mrs, even though she has pretended to forgive him.”

“Oh, he is a wise one, O' Faithful...”

“"In God We Trust"

The nation was founded with these kind of ideas in mind. Wanna change that so that you dont have to feel like God is being "force fed" to you everytime you spend a buck?

Keep trying to find ways that you are constitutionally protected from having to hear about Christianity. But the bottom line is that these are the principles that the founding fathers believed in, and removing God from society is not what they had in mind.”

“God says you're flat wrong, Cbat, what kind of Christian are you? Heretic.”

“I don't read anything on a 'buck' except the # and maybe look at the picturwe to see if it is Washington and not a loose Iraqi leader's picture. I don't consciously walk around try with anti-religion blinders on. There should be no mistake about the wording of my comments. It is blatantly explicit that I just feel that way when someone takes what is, in reality, a private matter, and makes it public. and further, lambasts me if I don't share the same view.”

“Sorry about not proofreading that message.”

“God forgives you, but he's giving you a checkmark by your name.”

“In God We Trust started on U.S. currency in 1864, it disappeared and then reappeared in 1938.

The Nation was founded with religion being a personal thing. The majority of founding fathers were actually Deists, NOT Christians.

here's an excerpt from one of Jefferson's writings on the topic... let's see what a founding father thought on the topic.

Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography
1821Works 1:71

"The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason and right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."”

“but does god believe in me?”

“Well GODDAM, Donman, nice one!

God approves. You get a gold star.”

“Stormbringer, God can be kind of cryptic sometimes. When I asked him about believing in you, he just kind of sighed a big deep sigh, and goes "well, I guess I have to, don't I?"

You two have a spat or something?”

“or there's the treaty with Tripoli

Treaty of Peace and Friendship Between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, 1796-1797:

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion--as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims], ..." (Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between The United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary," 1796-1797.)”

“I get real sick of this new brand of Republican who feels that this is a Christian country when in actuality this country was actually created as a safe haven for all religions”

“That's it! Donman gets a free pair of season tickets to God's football team stadium in heaven. Congrats, Donman!

You can pick them up at the pearly gate.”

“#&%!$in'! I've always wanted to see Johnny Unitas play! I know he's gotta be on God's team”

“Uhm... God says he cut him in favor of YA Tittle (he likes the name better).”

“God DAMN IT!”

“Isn't that special.




BWAAAAAAAAAAH-HAHHAAHahahahaahahaaaa....


(sorry -- couldn't say it with a straight face to save my ass)”

“I love God!


8)”

“"I get real sick of this new brand of Republican who feels that this is a Christian country when in actuality this country was actually created as a safe haven for all religions"
Donman
05:56:31 PM
11/14/03

And I get real sick of the new brand of Democrats who feel that this country is a safe haven for NO religions.

Look, the separation of church and state stuff wasn't designed to take "God" out of the government, but merely saying government shouldn't dictate your personal views on God. They had just come from an environment where religion and politics became the same thing, the Church State, which mucks things up big time, so they didn't want religion mucked up. But they didn't intend to take religion OUT, just not endorsing any particular religion. Many libs want ANY mention of God (whoever that may be for anyone) taken out of the government. That's ridiculous.

Also, I find it amusing that the 'ole obscure Tripoli Treaty thing was brought up (it's often brought up as a lame attempt to distance this country from it's overwhelmingly obvious Christian heritage). When I get back from my trip I'll explain this further, but that treaty was signed because pirates off the Barbary Coast were destroying U.S. shipping and we needed to sign a treaty with the Muslims there, and they obviously distrusted us greatly because of our "Christian" heritage. As the treaty wording continues... "it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty, and can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.” - Thomas Jefferson”

“"Buck just doesn't get it"

-God 2003”

“Buck, most of the founding fathers also believed that a strong spiritual foundation was paramount for all individuals. Back before credit cards and contracts a handshake was enough because every person was expected to act from a personal moral compass.

So what you are saying is that the U.S. lied to pirates about God because they were afraid to piss off pirates, but not God? As for obvious Christian heritage, I can source over and over again that the words Jesus Christ were suggested and overwhelmingly voted out of the Constitution. No mention of a specific God is anywhere in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution, so how can you suggest that there's an 'obvious Christian heritiage'? Especially since we were running from a Christian church. More parallels can be drawn to our founding documents from the League of the Iroquois than the Christian bible.

There are very few if anybody from that are trying to run religion out of the U.S. Religion is protected in this country, all religion. You can pray in school, you can pray at work, you just can't do it on the Government's time clock.

Lastly, you dispute historical documents with no proof, just rhetoric. You must bring your A game to debate this subject”

“
George Washington - Thanksgiving Proclamation

PROCLAMATION.
A NATIONAL THANKSGIVING.

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and

Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me " to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness: "

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favor, able interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquillity, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted; for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other trangressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally, to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

- Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d day of October,

A. D. 1789. G.ø WASHINGTON.

Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation”

“You are right, the Federalists were pretty much bible thumpers while the Democratic Republicans were not. In case you didn't know when Madison was President (1809-1817) he refused to give Thanksgiving day proclamations.

We had 2 parties that felt differently on the issues of church and State, kind of like now”

“Here's the Preamble to the "Constitution of California"
--------------
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
PREAMBLE

"We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this
Constitution."

The California Constitution”

“In Satan we distrust.”

“California is not the whole U.S.A.”

“California is the a-hole of the USA.”

“Donman, Jefferson didn't want "God" out of the government, he just didn't want the Federal Government to dictate a particular belief in God. He wanted these issues to be the rights of the individual STATES.

As for our Christian heritage, that's just a historical fact. The people flocking to this country at that time in history were Christians. Yes, they were wise enough to keep any SPECIFIC official religious endorsement out of most government documents, but that didn't mean they wanted the "concept" of God deleted from the government. God can mean anything or nothing to you if you want it to, or don't want it to, that's your free choice, but that doesn't mean it should be taken out of government. It is a GOOD thing to keep religion pure from government intervention lest they force citizens to believe a certain way. We can believe any way we want. But that is not saying "God" must be taken out of the government. Okay, I'm repeating myself now. :^D”

“God says he doesn't want anything to do with the government. "keep me out of it! You guys created THAT crap."

Can't really argue with the creator of the universe, can you?”

“Of course CA is not all of America, I'm only pointing out that the mention of "God" in official government documents, or the Pledge, or on our coins, or in our National Motto, does not particularly endorse any specific "God". So it's not cramming religion down anyone's throat.

Religion means to have a specific faith with a system of beliefs and practices. If I say, "one nation, under God", or, "In God We Trust" what specific religion is that? It can mean anything or nothing.

And for those who don't think our nation is or has been Christian based in any way, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL THAT TO THE FREAKING MUSLIM TERRORISTS! Maybe they'll stop it already then.”

“Hey Buck, maybe they'll be appeased if we put "in allah we trust" on our money instead.”

“So Buck argues on one hand we're a Christian nation, but argues on the other that the "God" in our governmental language could mean anything.”

“"In case you didn't know when Madison was President (1809-1817) he refused to give Thanksgiving day proclamations."
Donman
07:05:41 PM
11/14/03

Hi Donman! You brought up James Madison, and you say he refused to give Thanksgiving Day Proclamations. Check this out from James Madison.

-------------

Proclamation of a Day of Public Humiliation and Prayer

by James Madison

A Proclamation. By the President of the United States of America

Whereas the Congress of the United States, by a joint resolution of the two Houses have signified a request, that a day may be recommended, to be observed by the people of the United States, with religious solemnity, as a day of public humiliation and prayer:

And whereas such a recommendation will enable the several religious denominations and societies so disposed, to offer, at one and the same time, their common vows and adorations to Almighty God, on the solemn occasion produced by the war, in which He has been pleased to permit the injustice of a foreign Power to involve these United States;

I do therefore recommend a convenient day to be set apart, for the devout purposes of rendering the Sovereign of the Universe, and the Benefactor of Mankind. The public homage due to His holy attributes; of acknowledging the transgressions which might justly provoke the manifestations of His divine displeasure; of seeking his merciful forgiveness, and His assistance in the great duties of repentance and amendment; and, especially, of offering fervent supplications, that, in the present season of calamity and war, He would take the American people under His peculiar care and protection; that He would guide their public councils, animate their patriotism, and bestow His blessing on their arms; that He would inspire all nations with a love of justice and of concord, and with a reverence for the unerring precept of our holy religion, to do to others as they would require that others should do to them; and, finally, that turning the hearts of our enemies from the violence and injustice which sway their councils against us, He would hasten a restoration of the blessings of peace.

Given at Washington, the 9th day of July, A. D. 1812

James Madison

------------

Here's another one by James Madison if you wanna follow the linky-poo

James Madison Proclamation”

“If we're not forcing religion on anyone, why do we have to bring it up in government at all? What, you think God will send you to hell if you don't pray aloud, and in a group before every legislative session?”

“"So Buck argues on one hand we're a Christian nation, but argues on the other that the "God" in our governmental language could mean anything."
Phaedrus
07:22:29 PM
11/14/03

Hi Phaedrus! What I am saying is that obviously the founding fathers and the signers of the Constitution were overwhelmingly Christian, no doubt, but they had just come from countries where they saw what happens when religion and politics become "one". The "Church" is a different entity than the "State", and the "State" shouldn't dictate to people exactly what to believe. It corrupts, no doubt. So what I'm saying is that our founding fathers were wise to not be specific on endorsing any specific religion lest our new country turns into what they had just escaped from. It's all about freedom. But it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. The government can (and did and does) talk about "God", but that "God" can mean anything you want, or not want. The founding fathers didn't want the government go get in between each person and their individualrelationship with God, as it had with the Church of England, for example. They worded things very carefully. But in their careful wordings, they still used the word "God".”

“Which God tells me is wrong. God tells me it's a sin to listen to others' prayers.

How is it that it's okay, then for the Government to force a sin on me? I thought I was supposed to have freedom of religion?”

“BTW, God prefers it if we call him "Joe", short for Jehovah.”

“"If we're not forcing religion on anyone, why do we have to bring it up in government at all? What, you think God will send you to hell if you don't pray aloud, and in a group before every legislative session?"
Phaedrus
07:29:03 PM
11/14/03

I'm lost with your comments on the public prayer thing. Anyone can pray outloud or silently or wherever they want. As for why did (and does) the government even mention God? I think the founding fathers were wise enough to know a strong nation requires a strong faith. It digs down to a deeper meaning of freedom and purpose.

"The rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but form the hand of God." - John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

"I believe that the next half century will determine if we will advance the cause of Christian civilization or revert to the horrors of brutal paganism." - Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)

-----
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity religion and morality are indispensable supports."

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for benefits, and humbly to implore His protection, aid, and favors."

"Without a humble imitation of the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, we can never hope to be a happy nation." - George Washington (1732-1799)
----

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority for that law which is divine...far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other." - James Wilson (1742-1798) Signer of the Constitution

I could go on and on with quotes (and surely counter quotes could be made as well), but I think the general understanding of framers of governments is that a moral, religious people create a national fiber that is hard to break. And the government wants to be a part of it, and in our case, in a non-specific way.”