Massachusetts to allow gay marriage

“Buck,
Why do you try to argue with a guy who instead of trying to get his point across has to sink to vulgarities and his own sick fantasies regarding his mother?”

“"Buck,
Why do you try to argue with a guy who instead of trying to get his point across has to sink to vulgarities and his own sick fantasies regarding his mother?....."


If you saw my mother, you would backtrack that statment.

Buck called me out, thinking he was going to trap me into a hyprocrticial situation. How wrong he was.


When I addressed his question, he himm'd and haww`d, trying to find a way out.

Savage - I dance in the mud with those who want to dance. When Buck sez "Let's dance", and I do, he takes his ass somewhere else.

Too bad, the "All Mighty" is a dolt, there's nothing left of that.

Buck - the root of your problem is that you have no reading skills. I clearly gave you what you were looking fer.....and you choked.

Whadda putz!”

“PS - You can kiss my open minded ASS!”

“The real threat to this nation in all of this is the way it was brought about. Our government is supposed to be "By the People, For the People, and Of the People". In Massachusetts, none of this was true. A small handful of people replaced the law that legislators had made with their own personal feelings. This circumvented the will of the People of Massachusetts while the Executive Branch failed to enforce the law. Law is not supposed to be MADE by those acting as judges... and threatens the very fabric of what made the United States of America the greatest nation ever formed. Our founding fathers NEVER intended those acting as judges to make law, instead giving that responsibility to those elected by the People, and representing the People. Our failure to express outrage at those acting as judges making law is a terrible threat to our nation... and everyone's freedoms. Understand that government for the People, by the People, and of the People is in far more danger than at ANY time in our history! This is truly the beginning...”

“Dag nabit Q. If yer gonna put that boy on ignore then ignore him! I could have saved myself 10 minutes reading through this bull crap. You owe me 10 minutes and I want it NOW! :P”

“Our founding fathers NEVER intended those acting as judges to make law, instead giving that responsibility to those elected by the People, and representing the People

Another dickhead that failed high school civics.”

“Well, well, well...I am quite glad that I will never have to marry a Buck. I think he was trying to say something but all I could feel was spit in my face.”

“Oh what, wolfeyes, you think it's WRONG for someone to pretend to be a caring, decent person while comparing you to an animal rapist? Welcome to the wonderful dichotomy of buck-world.”

“Yawn! I wonder what this country, and the pres, should be concerning ourselves with rather than this stuff. But for the relatively few people directly involved, this is a national non-issue. Why do you care if they get married, or civilly united, or blessed by the great pumpkin.

Americans are dying in Bagdad, children are hungry, domestic violence, crime, illertacy (sp? LOL) health care, pestulence, poverty, etc., etc. etc. and we get wrapped up in this???

We overthrow the government come November, I pray we get some intellectual leadership.

Geeze, get the f over it!”

“I admit it...I have thought about marrying my dog...the only reason I have not is because I am not sure what the hell category to put our marriage in

a)homosexual since we are both female?
b)incestuous since she is kinda like a daughter?
c)beastiality since she is a dog?

And the last "caring, decent person while comparing you to an animal rapist" with whom I had the displeasure of knowing preached in white on Sunday then joined the other members of his church at the chicken dinner which he sacrificed in black the night before, under the very pulpit he preached from. Anyone who preaches as strongly as he did, and Buck does, I don't trust. Plain and simple. Truth is stranger than fiction.”

“And I agree, Shawn...there are many more important things going on in this world that are just a tad more important than what gays do or don't do.”

“i tend to differ with most conservatives. i take a more libertarian aproach because i really couldn't care less what gay people do or don't do.”

“By the way, Buck, if you had more of an education about homosexuality, you might understand that there are a great majority of homosexual MEN and WOMEN, who come from incestual relationships forced upon them in their childhood. So, by all means, you are saying that it is okay that they married their perpetrator instead? In other words, they should have just stopped there, right?”

“"Tom, since when is Communism considered "conservative"! I always thought coastal hippy pinko-commies were liberals! :^D"
Buck
06:51:53 PM

Uncle Jed/Buck, communism is what it is and China is a very conservative place.

There is nothing liberal about China, except for liberalization of the economy, and nothing liberal about communism.

Communism tends to be quite rigid.

I'm sorry for going off topic here.

Christianity is certainly not the most influencial religion on earth, just one of many.

The courts have protected Americans from something known as "tyranny of the majority".

Even if a majority says that a minority can not enjoy the same rights as they do the U.S. Constitution protects that minority from the majority.

This does not mean that the courts are "writing laws" as the right-wing pundits like to say.”

“Were not completely struck down until 1967! How old were you then, Buck?

"The ongoing struggle to secure the right to marry the partner of your choice, regardless of their sex or sexual orientation, has clear parallels to the battle to end race discrimination in marriage. Just as people defending interracial marriage bans invoked “divine law”, “immorality” and “unnatural unions” as arguments against ending discrimination, so do the opponents of civil marriage for same-sex couples. While there are differences between the two issues, there are also profound and inescapable similarities.
Forty U.S. states, including Massachusetts, once prohibited marrying someone of the “wrong” race, no matter how much you loved them. Social prejudice accomplished much the same result in other states. Marriages between whites and persons of color were decried as “immoral” and “unnatural.” Polls showed that overwhelming numbers of Americans agreed. Massachusetts forbade interracial marriage as early as 1705, a restriction which was ultimately changed in 1843 after a three year campaign in the legislature. The legislature understood that withholding marriage based on race was an affront to human dignity and denied our basic guarantees of equality.

Despite the public opposition to interracial marriage, in 1948, the California Supreme Court became the first state high court to declare a ban on interracial marriage unconstitutional. In Perez v. Sharp the Court stated that:

“A member of any of these races may find himself barred from marrying the person of his choice and that person to him may be irreplaceable. Human beings are bereft of worth and dignity by a doctrine that would make them as interchangeable as trains.”
The decision was controversial, courageous and correct. At that time, 38 states still forbade interracial marriage, and 6 did so by state constitutional provision.
Then, in 1967, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the remaining interracial marriage laws nation-wide. A Virginia judge had upheld that state's ban on interracial marriages, invoking God's intention to separate the races. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned his decision, declaring that:

the “freedom to marry” belongs to all Americans;
marriage is one of our “vital personal rights” and
the right to marry is “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by a free [people].”
The parallels between the struggle for the freedom to marry then, and the struggle for gay and lesbian couples today is illustrated by the endorsement of marriage for same-sex couples by civil rights organizations ranging from the Asian American Legal Defense & Education Fund, the Urban League of Eastern Massachusetts, the Mexican American LDEF, the National Asian Pacific American LDEF, and the Puerto Rican LDEF.
Civil Rights hero and now U.S. Representative John Lewis, speaking in condemnation of the Defense of Marriage Act (which denies federal recognition to marriages of same-sex couples) stated:

“This bill is a slap in the face of the Declaration of Independence. It denies gay men and women the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness … I have known racism. I have known bigotry. This bill stinks of the same fear, hatred, and intolerance. Every word, every purpose, every message is wrong. It is not the right thing to do, to divide America.” "”

“I love Buck’s selective Bible quoting to try to prove that there is no such thing as sexism in the Bible. How do these passages fit with that?


Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.



How do you reconcile those (supposedly divinely written passages) with the one you selectively quoted? You pulled the same thing with slavery before and I called you on it. You can’t get away with this stuff around me because unlike most of the heathen on Trail Talk, I read the Bible. I just don’t have a problem with internal inconsistencies like you do because I don’t take every word literally. Although it contains real pearls, it was written by men and reflects the culture of its time. God created us with the capacity to understand morality. Try using it.”

“There was a time when Italian and Irish was a mixed marriage.”

“Interesting Violin. Maybe I need to look into organized religion more.........

Women! Where's my chicken pot pie and Bud, Beeotch?”

“As an I-talian I can understand were that may not be a desired mix. I think I-Talian/I-talian might not be a good match either! ;)”

“There is nothing liberal about China, except for liberalization of the economy, and nothing liberal about communism.

Don't confuse culture with government. Communism = leftist.”

“Why oh why must people take the bible text into pieces.. i mean when the bible was written was it written in verses and chapters.. Too many times the writings are taken out of content.. Im sure you could find just about any verse to fit your (mans justification and not Gods).. This is not an argument to anyone just a point in my feble mind.. Why dont we read it how it is written, in full. The bible is not a puzzle piece to use as we choose, it is a book for living. The question is Why is this verse written and to whom is it written and for what purpose.
It just makes me ill, the constant bickering.. Why dont we just solve a problem instead on constantly whinning about them.”

“Don't confuse culture with government. Communism = leftist."
Mutt
08:56:53

Sure thing, Mutt.

Its a question of how far left.

That which is called "far left" by right-wingers here in America is barely left of center and laughable to Europeans.

When you talk about "America's neo-imperialist goals", just how far to the right are you?”

“I get a big kick out of the tack chosen by some of you to champion tolerance!”

“I tolerate all religions. Why can't "they" keep there religious views to "their" followers?

Its when someone says "the country/people shouldn't do this because it's against the bible" that gets me going. That kind of rhetoric is..."spooky(?)". tell me something good that has come out of religous zealosy recently. I'm open to debate.

Is that intolerant?”

“yeah but who cares....”

“Intolerance of intolerance != an intolerant person.”

“Fine. I'm intolerant of intolerance. And That makes me the same as some Christian who is intolerant against everything non-Christian.”

“No, a christofascist who is intolerant against everything non-christian != a person who is intolerant of intolerance. That should be self evident.”

“therefore I am a christofascist????”

“Uncle Jed/Buck is a'feart that Ellie Mae and Jethreen might git hitched.”

“I'm intolerant of the religious right, and pseudo-catholics. There! I said it!

Buck - what are you intolerant of?”

“While I do not agree with Buck’s views mostly, or his pitbull tactics, or his long winded posts…however I must say he has whipped all of you. Even though he is so far and away outnumbered. On facts and debate? No. As far as debating goes he remains fairly calm, humorous, and respectful. He rarely uses name calling if ever but the way he gets you guys so worked up and hateful…masterful! He has been so ganged up on and called every single name in the book yet when he gets insulted he brushes it off and makes a joke on himself. In the end he looks a bit intolerant but he makes you guys look like absolute hatemongering fools.

Even if he is not right he makes ya’ll look so wrong. Masterfully done Buck!”

“I like Buck's humor.
He does remain fairly charitable and avoids nastiness.
Even if he is wrong.

You, on the other hand Nigal, suck eggs!”

“I hate you Nigal, #&%!$!


Do I need emoticons to convey sarcasm on my posts?”

“Naw! I take it all as sarcasm and humor anymore.”

“Good point, Nigal. Buck is hard not to like, even if you do disagree with him.”

“call them all civil unions, as hard as it is to believe, religions change over time...this is just a small part of a large gradual change that happens among religions.

plus let them get hitched..hopefully they will adopt all the orphans and take care of them once they feel the need to have a family..morals might not be what you want..but they will be safe, healthy and loved....end of story”

“"call them all civil unions"

Good point Opie. Let civil unions and the legal stuff like benifits and junk be secular and let marraige be a religious thing.”

“This whole thread is getting way to civil!

I hate all y'all!”

“My marriage is a civil union, you butt-munching half-wits!”

“The Book tells us that we will be hated and abused, just because we have Faith. While we love all sinners (present company included), we do not accept the sins (or our own). Say what you will, it cannot change the Word... nothing can. Take a few words out of context to suit yourself... but it means nothing then... and we know it. I won't call you names or degrade you for your thoughts... but I will speak the Truth. I know that many have died for what they believe in... some in the name of Freedom... others in the name of God. I believe in both.”

“Is the Word "Dick" or "Dickhead"? And if so, are you a blasphemer, #&%!$head?”

“I don't understand why some have to be demonstrative with their religion.

Its a private matter.......KEEP IT TO YOURSELVES ! ! !

This ballyhooing about one's religion just makes it seem cheap.”

“"I don't understand why some have to be demonstrative with their religion.

Its a private matter.......KEEP IT TO YOURSELVES ! ! !”

Why is it so OK to demonstrate one’s disbeliefs and going one step further, their dislike for religion? It’s not OK for someone to express their faith but everyone laughs and jeers when Pheadrus posts a picture of Jesus on the cross as a Snickers ad? Is there not freedom of speech?

Just wonderin’ why it’s a one way street?”

“Is it one way or is it two different streets?

The religious might say: we should put religion back in public schools.

How would the secularists respond
in kind?

We should teach secularism in religious schools?

I don't mind someone telling me they have faith. But don't shove it down peoples throats.

I think, once again, I have failed miserably in expressing myself here. i shall try to shut up.”

“I'm not talking in schools, just in general as Tom has suggested.”

“School was just an easy example. It seems like when someone says they are against homosexual marriage based on there religion then the defense has to be an attack of said religion, no?”

“It’s not OK for someone to express their faith

It's "OK." Detractors are not depriving you your first amendment right to speak - it's merely a judgement on what you're saying.”

“I just find it funny that non religious people are always railing on and on about how intolerant religious people are and then turn right around and show the exact type of intolerance. I know many feel it’s just being quid-pro-quo but it comes off many times as simple hypocrisy. Don’t get me wrong. I get more flack, get into it with, and receive more hate from the fundie Christians than the atheists and pagans could even imagine.”

“As I said before, intolerance of intolerance != an intolerant person.”