Massachusetts to allow gay marriage

“I know it's not every Republican or not every Christian, by a long shot. It's not even an American thing.....

What is beginning to happen here, is the same thing that has been happening all over the world, the morphing of a particular Religion into something political.

Look around, it's coming to a church near you.”

“Jeezus Steve, where the hell have you been living for the last 2,000 years? It’s been this way ever sense the church started. It’s always been about power and influence. Everybody’s in a tizzy now for no other reason than the left trying to blame Christians for causing Kerry to lose the election. It’s silly as a anything I’ve ever heard. To blame or discount a christian for going to the booth and voting according to their person views is as stupid as blaming an atheist for doing the same. And it’s somehow the religious right’s fault simply because they turned out? Why doesn’t the left blame the ones who DIDN’T show up like the Mtv crowd that stayed home?

As long as everyone on the left refuses to examine themselves and say, “Ya know, maybe it’s US and not them?”, then we will just keep on winning.”

“I don’t think you can discount the effect of state sponsored religion in the form of ‘faith based initiatives’ had in motivating many sermons in this election season. Religious teachings about war and helping the poor didn’t get a whole lot of pulpit time. I think many churches will live to regret getting hooked on government handouts.”

“How many churches did you visit in the election season V? And if so does this also apply to all the churches that invited Kerry to come speak to them and the ones who actually backed Kerry?”

“Only one Nigal, but I’m looking for another because I’m sickened by the bigotry being preached regarding gays and the support for a war of aggression. I know from reading and listening to religious broadcasting that it’s not exactly an aberration. I’m all for a strict separation of church and state.”

“"I know from reading and listening to religious broadcasting that it’s not exactly an aberration."

I believe it is the exception and not the rule. We all have heard, "The squeeky wheel gets the oil.". When it comes to this it's the craziest wheels like Robertson and Farwel. I do believe that religous groups have as much right to give their political opinions as any other group but don't try to pull that crap from the pulpit. If my rabbi ever did that, it's be the last time we ever saw each other.

"I’m all for a strict separation of church and state.”

On this we agree 110%. The less religion in the state insures less gubmint in the church.”

“If I had a nickle for every church that Bill Clinton spoke in I could buy a nice lunch of fried chicken and greens.”

“AT the OSU-Michigan Game, some loopy christian conservative evangelist was railing on and on about jesus hates gays, and quit fornicating, etc. Some young kids were handing out flyers about jesus this and that. A couple of drunk fans started giving the dude some shiznit, so I started preaching my own gospel, right next to the christofascist.

"Beware all you heathen Michigan Fans, for one day you shall repent. Look to the true champions, the Ohio State Buckeyes, the righteous and pure football team, and you shall be rewarded!"

The fans loved it, I got some high fives, and the stupid evangelical guy left. :)”

“I watched Saved last night. Great movie. All bible thumpers should watch it and hopefully learn something.”

“That was a great one!”

“Today's paper had an article about a homosexual couple who were moving out of state. They cited the new State amemdment banning homosexual marriages as the reason.

Hoo Hoo! I hope they all leave!”

“Massachusetts, real family values + lowest divorce rate in the US.

Walking the walk on family values
By William V. D'Antonio | October 31, 2004

PRESIDENT Bush and Vice President Cheney make reference to "Massachusetts liberals" as if they were referring to people with some kind of disease. I decided it was time to do some research on these people, and here is what I found.

The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1.

But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP report stated that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people." The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

How to explain these differences? The following factors provide a partial answer:

More couples in the South enter their first marriage at a younger age.

Average household incomes are lower in the South.

Southern states have a lower percentage of Roman Catholics, "a denomination that does not recognize divorce." Barna's study showed that 21 percent of Catholics had been divorced, compared with 29 percent of Baptists.

Education. Massachusetts has about the highest rate of education in the country, with 85 percent completing high school. For Texas the rate is 76 percent. One third of Massachusetts residents have completed college, compared with 23 percent of Texans, and the other Northeast states are right behind Massachusetts.

The liberals from Massachusetts have long prided themselves on their emphasis on education, and it has paid off: People who stay in school longer get married at a later age, when they are more mature, are more likely to secure a better job, and job income increases with each level of formal education. As a result, Massachusetts also leads in per capita and family income while births by teenagers, as a percent of total births, was 7.4 for Massachusetts and 16.1 for Texas.

The Northeast corridor, with Massachusetts as the hub, does have one of the highest levels of Catholics per state total. And it is also the case that these are among the states most strongly supportive of the Catholic Church's teaching on social justice issues such as minimum and living wages and universal healthcare.

For all the Bible Belt talk about family values, it is the people from Kerry's home state, along with their neighbors in the Northeast corridor, who live these values. Indeed, it is the "blue" states, led led by Massachusetts and Connecticut, that have been willing to invest more money over time to foster the reality of what it means to leave no children behind. And they have been among the nation's leaders in promoting a living wage as their goal in public employment. The money they have invested in their future is known more popularly as taxes; these so-called liberal people see that money is their investment to help insure a compassionate, humane society. Family values are much more likely to be found in the states mistakenly called out-of-the-mainstream liberal. By their behavior you can know them as the true conservatives. They are showing how to conserve family life through the way they live their family values. William V. D'Antonio is professor emeritus at University of Connecticut and a visiting research professor at Catholic University in Washington, D.C

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/10/31/walking_the_walk_on_family_values/”

“Nice research Ped!”

“Kerry has been divorced. President Bush has not. How is that for research?”

“good in-depth analysis, bbw. youve changed my mind. i now hate all gays because a former presidential candidate couldnt keep his marriage together.”

“It makes as much sense as that stupid article ped, posted.”

“Well, bbw - if Massachusetts values and politics are bad for marriage - it seems to mean something if marriages are doing far better in Massachusetts than in the states that pass bills against gay marriage and civil unions in order to "defend marriage."

Isn't it odd that families are more likely break up in States where "values" conservatives say say Family Values are strong, than in States where they say family values are the weakest?

Don't that suggest that what y'all claim are family values don't do much to protect families, or at least that defenders of marriage haven't done much for marriage?”

“I don't think it suggests it at all. The article you posted gives several reasons why divorce rates are higher. Lower income, less education and fewer Catholics. You seem to ignore these facts and draw your own conclusions. I suspect there are fewer annulments in the Southern States.

Kerry tried to have his 18 year marriage that produced 2 children annulled. I guess he wouldn't mind his children being bastards.”

“Aren't all Kerrys/Kennedys/Forbes bassturds?”

“The divorce statistics include annulments.”

“This thread is STILL gay.”

“SAN FRANCISCO - A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional — a legal milestone that, if upheld on appeal, would open the way for the most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

Judge Richard Kramer of San Francisco County's trial-level Superior Court likened the ban to laws requiring racial segregation in schools, and said there appears to be "no rational purpose" for denying marriage to gay couples.

[...]”

“G.O.P. Consultant Weds His Male Partner

WASHINGTON, April 8 - Arthur J. Finkelstein, a prominent Republican consultant who has directed a series of hard-edged political campaigns to elect conservatives in the United States and Israel over the last 25 years, said Friday that he had married his male partner in a civil ceremony at his home in Massachusetts.

Mr. Finkelstein, 59, who has made a practice of defeating Democrats by trying to demonize them as liberal, said in a brief interview that he had married his partner of 40 years to ensure that the couple had the same benefits available to married heterosexual couples.

"I believe that visitation rights, health care benefits and other human relationship contracts that are taken for granted by all married people should be available to partners," he said.

He declined further comment on the wedding, which was in December.

Some of Mr. Finkelstein's associates said they were startled to learn that this prominent American conservative had married a man, given his history with the party, especially at a time when many Republican leaders, including President Bush, have campaigned against same-sex marriage and proposed amending the Constitution to ban it. Mr. Finkelstein has been allied over the years with Republicans who have fiercely opposed gay rights measures, including former Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, and has been the subject of attacks by gay rights activists who have accused him of hypocrisy. He was identified as gay in a Boston Magazine article in 1996.
<snip>”

“I thought this thread being brought up had to do with the Gem and Ruby thread that was just created.”

“That's really screwed up! Now there will be no female to automatically give the house and kids to when they divorce. ;-)”

“Spain passed a new law becoming the third nation to allow same sex marraige...



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4636133.stm
last edited: 6/30/05 7:40:56 AM”

“Golly, just thirty years ago Spain got out from under the boot of fascist dictator Francisco Franco, a good buddy of Il Duce and Der Fuhrer.


It would be nice to see similar progress here in the good old U.S.A.”

““Golly, just thirty years ago Spain got out from under the boot of fascist dictator Francisco Franco, a good buddy of Il Duce and Der Fuhrer."

What are you saying? They were Sans Francisco?”

“Oh look, socialist fags.”

“No, UP. Just good Americans, like yourself!”

““No, UP. Just good Americans, like yourself!”

Actually they are Spanish.”

“Listen, hippy-boy, those are spanish socialist homosexuals. They are about as far from me as you can get without being you.”

“How 'bout a little brotherly love, gramps?”

“My bad. Thought you were responding to Mark-O's comments about America pulling out of the dark ages.

Hey, I can admit a mistake, even to a McCarthyist like you!”

“i guess a group hug is out of the question


not cause your all fighting, but because you all are GUYS
last edited: 6/30/05 8:39:54 AM”

“Dang Tree, I almost used the phrase "dark ages" in my first post.

McCarthy would be proud of that ornery old cuss.”

“I'm OK with the hugs........just watch that tongue, mister!!”

“LOL @ "sans fransisco."”

“Canada enacts new gay maraige laws. Good for them.”

“no clergy would be forced to perform same-sex ceremonies unless they choose to do so.

thats only fair

Charles McVety, a spokesman for Defend Marriage Canada and president of Canada Christian College, said he was "very sad that the state has invaded the church, breached separation of church and state and redefined a religious word."

yea, how dare they give rights to people. those bastards. giving rights to people by taking away....taking away....wait, whos rights are being taken away? oh umm thats right NOBODY”

“"very sad that the state has invaded the church, breached separation of church and state and redefined a religious word."

Invaded the church? How the hell is that? They perform ceremonies down at the county courthouse. Is that invading the church and breaching seperation of church and state? This guy's a moron.”

“you GO Canada!”

“I was married by a Juctice of the Peace in a firehouse recreation hall.

We sure ripped "the church" a new one!!”

“It is funny that this spokesman says the state has invaded the Church's turf. All they did was stop prohibiting gay marriages. No church is forced to do anything.

I'm still thinking that the state should recognize domestic partnerships and leave sexuality and mating out of it. Not only wouldn't it matter what sex the partners were, it wouldn't matter if they were having sex or not. Let the religious institutions deal with the holy matrimony and the sexual commitment stuff.”

“I still have yet to have any anti-gay person be able to tell me EXACTLY how gay marraige hurts traditional marraige.”

“If they want to protect marriage, you'd think they might be working on no-fault divorce or requirments for pre-marital and pre-divorce counseling.”

“Nigal: It reminds me of your hero Bill Clinton's support for the defense of marriage act. And I keep thinking adultery - that is violating the commitments made by married people - is bigger threat to marriage than recognizing the commitments made between homosexuals.”

“Gee - here I do some Clinton bashing and no one joins in (or takes offense) what's the world coming to.”

“I still have yet to have any anti-gay person be able to tell me EXACTLY how gay marraige hurts traditional marraige. - Nigal

It can't. There is no such thing as "gay marriage". That's like saying "heterosexual lesbianism".”

“That ought to get the discussion started!”