Massachusetts to allow gay marriage

“"Chinese traditional religion (AKA confucianism/taoist/buddhist) has never held that homosexuality was a spiritual sin."

Gay marriage is not legal in China. I wonder why? It's funny we are talking about China, where there is no freedom of religion and there is a restriction on the number of births per family (uno), and it's the most populous country on Earth.

----------
BEIJING (Reuters) - China is making marriage easier for prospective newlyweds after decades of demanding blessings from their bosses, but same-sex unions remain outlawed in a land where homosexuals were until recently considered mentally ill.

http://www.aegis.com/news/re/2003/RE030825.html”

“Oy.

If we are going to change the definition of marriage why does it stop wit just couples of any sex combinations? What about three men or two men and a women? Why should these not be acceptable? Why can’t a guy marry his cousin? Remember, reproduction is not an issue because homosexual acts do not result in reproduction. The cousins may be of the same sex? Do you think marriage should be limited in anyway? If so why?

You in favor of gay marriages, don’t try to hide behind the “slippery slope” whine. These are legitimist questions.


As far as I'm concerned, any two adults should be able to marry and get the legal support of the institution of marriage.

I'm not going to get into the incest argument because it has nothing to do with the law we were discussing, however you may want to make it so.”

“Buck, we were talking about religions of the world and whether the religions taught homosexuality was a sin. You do enjoy shifting the context of an argument, don't you?

That's what I called muddled thinking. Don't be offended. It doesn't mean I hate you or anything. I'm about to respond to your earlier post.”

“"Mtn gal, you're wrong, and science has shown that Homosexual couples are every bit as good as heterosexual couples at being parents."
Phaedrus
04:27:10 PM
11/18/03

Oh come on, Phaedrus, I find your "science says so" rather humorous! You can find scientists to say whatever you darn well believe! I remember arguing with a liberal not too long ago who was pissed off and blamed Bush for the big Klamath salmon kill, when the Administration used data backed by the National Academy of Sciences for their decision. He said it was crap science. I'm like... huh? Unless science says what we want it to, we don't agree with it. Global warming? Magnificent scientists on both side of the aisle. You name it, you can get a scientist to back it up. They even got scientists to say O.J. didn't do it. So don't be claiming your snug "science says so, so that's it" argument. It only gets snickers with me. I can find you links to counter anything you say, and vice versa. There is no "one" final word on science. Unfortunately, science can be just a political as politics, on both ends of the spectrum.”

“"There's no point in making a union out of something that's not gonna produce toward the next generation. Call it anything but marriage. Make-up a word, if ya like..."
-gojo

Wow... So, what if I'm unable to concieve? Should I not be allowed to get married. What if I choose not to have children so as not to bring more children into a world that has tons of unwanted children? Should I not be allowed to get married. That's crap.

"If we are going to change the definition of marriage "
-mtn gal

The definition of marriage will continue to change, as it has in the past. Change is a natural and healthy progression. I embrace it and will continue to.

---

May I be permitted to ask what some might perceive to be a dumb question? But... it's a serious question:

Is it a common Christians belief that we are put on this earth to reproduce? And, if so, why are the leaders of certain religions dedictated to celibacy?

I ask because several people discuss homosexuality as not being natural since their acts cannot produce children... What makes a dedication of celibacy natural?

Again, it's a serious question? One for which I do not wish to be attacked. Just looking for a serious answer.”

“The Boston news station mentioned
the State Supreme Court Judges are
being accused of Judicial Activism
Polls show the majority of voters
do not want gay marriage approved.”

“"The definition of marriage will continue to change, as it has in the past. Change is a natural and healthy progression. I embrace it and will continue to."

tarabull, the tradition of marriage has changed more in the last 30 years than it has in the last 3,000. I guess we can make marriage anything we want. Polygamy, incestual polygamy, it doesn't matter, there is no "moral foundation" for marriage like there used to be. If anyone suggests anything isn't "right", they just aren't being opened minded and understanding and tolerant. I don't get it?”

“"As far as I'm concerned, any two adults should be able to marry and get the legal support of the institution of marriage."
Phaedrus
05:37:51 PM
11/18/03

I guess if a dad has the hots for his daughter, as long as she's 18 and consents, they should blissfully wed, and then when this dad's other daughter turns 18, if she agrees and they all agree, they can all wed in incestual polygamy bliss. Hmmmm. (scratching head)”

“Can I rub tuna fish on my balls and marry Gay Als' gay cat?”

“I disagree. Morals come from beliefs, a belief that something is right or wrong or good or bad. Something can't be right or wrong unless you "believe" it to be.

Obviously. But a person can live a fulfilling and moral life without being religious and a religious person can be immoral. The two traits are not tied, and the particular (sexual) morality you are espousing is strictly religious in nature, therefore making it a religious belief. We each have our right to choose those beliefs, as guaranteed in the bill of rights.

2. The liberals are trying to tear down the historical moral pillars and put their own revised pillars in there. It's the liberals who are trying to proselytize our society.

Libs also make it seem like gay marriage is fine and dandy with all of society, except for a few bigots. Not so. Gay marriage is not a popular idea in this country and throughout most of the world. It's the libs who are out of whack with public opinion, not the religious right.

It sure SOUNDS like you're saying that popular opinion decides morality here.

3.If whether an unborn baby has "rights" or not (we were all unborn babies, no?) is merely a religious question, then so is homosexuality. Remember, Phaedus, you presented some facts above that even says "atheism and secularism" is a "religion". So it is the religion of WHOM to determine whether a precious unborn baby has rights or not?

Many issues all rolled into a muddled lump.
a. Yes, homosexuality as a taboo or not is a religious concern. We agree on this.
b. Atheism and secularism were listed in that list of people's beliefs (or non-beliefs) as a number of the whole of population.
c. The religion of the person involved seems to be the best way to decide the issue to me. Who speaks for the baby, then, you ask? The mother, I say.

4. See above for the incest craziness.”

“Buck, we were talking about religions of the world and whether the religions taught homosexuality was a sin. You do enjoy shifting the context of an argument, don't you?
Phaedrus
05:40:02 PM
11/18/03

And I was referring not ONLY to religion, but to the general populace. Restrictions to the notion of gay marriage not only have historically come from the government, and the church, but also the general populace. People talk about this like some extreme right wingers are making a fuss out of this gay marriage thingy... no, history has made a fuss of it, nations have made a fuss of it, most religious people have made a fuss about it, and the people have made a fuss about it. It's not some right-wing bigot thing. It's a matter of holding on to traditional moral values that have survived for thousands and thousand of years through most cultures. That's all.”

“Buck, science does not say anything we want it to. That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. If you understand scientific theory and critical thinking you can discern rhetoric posing as science from science.”

“guess if a dad has the hots for his daughter, as long as she's 18 and consents, they should blissfully wed, and then when this dad's other daughter turns 18, if she agrees and they all agree, they can all wed in incestual polygamy bliss. Hmmmm. (scratching head)"
Buck
05:49:48 PM
11/18/03

Who is advocating this? No one that I'm aware of. You?”

“May I be permitted to ask what some might perceive to be a dumb question? But... it's a serious question:

Is it a common Christians belief that we are put on this earth to reproduce? And, if so, why are the leaders of certain religions dedictated to celibacy?

I ask because several people discuss homosexuality as not being natural since their acts cannot produce children... What makes a dedication of celibacy natural?

Again, it's a serious question? One for which I do not wish to be attacked. Just looking for a serious answer."

Good question, Tara.”

“tarabull, the tradition of marriage has changed more in the last 30 years than it has in the last 3,000. I guess we can make marriage anything we want. Polygamy, incestual polygamy, it doesn't matter, there is no "moral foundation" for marriage like there used to be. If anyone suggests anything isn't "right", they just aren't being opened minded and understanding and tolerant. I don't get it?"
Buck
05:46:53 PM
11/18/03

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:


Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

Examples of Slippery Slope

"We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they'll be charging $40,000 a semester!"

"The US shouldn't get involved militarily in other countries. Once the government sends in a few troops, it will then send in thousands to die."

"You can never give anyone a break. If you do, they'll walk all over you."

"We've got to stop them from banning pornography. Once they start banning one form of literature, they will never stop. Next thing you know, they will be burning all the books!"”

“If a person objects to renting to
a legal wed gay couple on moral
grounds he is open to lawsuits
under the law. So where does this
all end.”

“"I guess we can make marriage anything we want"
-buck

Sure. Why not?

Yes, the tradition of marriage has seen little change in the last 3,000 years prior. Does that make it right?”

“you can omit "prior". sorta redundant. lol”

“:D

Buck sure does like to throw a lot of irrelevency into an argument.

And then he takes off!”

“Gay marriage was passed in Vermont
over the majority of the voters
there also.”

“Like I said, desegregation was unpopular in the south, but it was the right thing to do. This is parallel.”

“The two traits are not tied, and the particular (sexual) morality you are espousing is strictly religious in nature, therefore making it a religious belief.
Phaedrus
05:51:25 PM
11/18/03

Phaedrus? Are you saying that only religious people are against gay marriage? And that the only reason gay marriages are banned is because of religion? Did you realize that China is not very friendly to "religion", and is definitely not a religous country or base their communistic laws on religious precepts, yet even China, the most populous country on the face of this planet, does not grant legal gay marriages in the same way they do with traditional marriages? Again, I'm confoooosed.

1. Yes, homosexuality as a taboo or not is a religious concern. We agree on this.

We do? I don't think it's just religious people who are hung up on homosexuality? It goes against the grain of natural reproductive nature, and some people find offense for that. How "religious" are a bunch of sick punk kids killing a gay student because he's gay?

"Atheism and secularism were listed in that list of people's beliefs (or non-beliefs) as a number of the whole of population."

Atheism and secularism are beliefs just the same. You either "believe there is a God", or you "believe there isn't a God". Atheism is a belief system. Why would you bring it up as a population while determing "religious" beliefs if it wasn't so?

"The religion of the person involved seems to be the best way to decide the issue to me. Who speaks for the baby, then, you ask? The mother, I say."

The mother speaks for the baby? Would YOU have liked your mom have YOU killed before you took your first breath of air, thinking tshe was acting in YOUR best personal interests? Huh? Can an abusive mom legally speak on the behalf of her abused children? No. What kind of "rights" does a mother have to kill? I think ALL people should have equal rights... women, men, children, and babies in the process of being born, like you and me were.

"4. See above for the incest craziness."

Phaedrus, you're a logical person, I think you are very smart and very intelligent and have good reasoning skills. Really, I do. Why do you call the "incest" thing "craziness"? If two adults want to marry, or even if 52 adults want to marry, regardless of sex or family relations or whatever, what keeps them from doing so? What RIGHT do we as a society have to keep them from living how they deem fit, to make them happy? Does incest seem icky? If so, why? If a mom wants to marry her daughter and son when they turn 18, and so do they, you tell me why that would be bad, or a slippery-slope, or negative in any way? Rules? Morals? Why let those get in the way of the concept of "marriage"? Marriage can be anything to anyone, right? If not, then where and why do you limit it?”

“I haven't seen this many red 'x's in a long time. Seems kind of queer, doesn't it.”

“: "Buck, science does not say anything we want it to. That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. If you understand scientific theory and critical thinking you can discern rhetoric posing as science from science."

Okay then, why do some great scientists think the humans are causing global warming, why do some think it's a natural cycle, and why do some question that it's really happening like it is suggested? Why can a defendent and a prosecuter get forensic scientists to look at the same exact data and come to completely different conclusions? I could list beeeellions of examples from most facets of science and show that there is great disagreement among scientists about many things.”

“The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question.
Phaedrus
05:58:41 PM
11/18/03

Phaedrus, I am not using any slippery soap, I mean slope argument. I'm not saying one MUST happen because of the other. What I am saying is if marriage does not mean a union between a man and a woman, then it means it can mean anything to anyone. What's so slippery about that? If you are so concerned about the rights of two men or two women wanting to marry, are you not concerned about the rights of two consenting immediate family members? Or how about a bunch of family members marrying in one big group? Why limit marriage to "2", and why limit marriage to anyone who is of age and wants to consentually get married? That ain't slippery-slopin', that's just asking who's to say ANYTHING is right or wrong when it comes to marriage? ALL rights should be honored, and new rights created if they aren't so everyone can do as they please. Do you disagree?”

“Yes, the tradition of marriage has seen little change in the last 3,000 years prior. Does that make it right?"
- tarabull

But does it make it WONG? Ooops, sorry, I'm still thinking about the Chinese. Does it make it WRONG? Do we say, "well, it's worked for 3,000 years, BUT SCREW IT ALL AND LET'S TRY SUMPTHIN' ELSE"!!!”

“"Who is advocating this (incest)? No one that I'm aware of. You?" -
Phaedrus
05:56:22 PM
11/18/03

What, Phaedrus, are you wishing to deny the rights of those wanting an incestual marriage? ___ Yes ____ No”

“Post a few pictures, that will shut them up.”

“"Is it a common Christians belief that we are put on this earth to reproduce? And, if so, why are the leaders of certain religions dedictated to celibacy?" - tarabull

Hi tarabull! Good question! According to Genesis, God told Adam and Even to go forth and multiply and fill the Earth. I think we've already pretty much done that. :^D He also said this to all species though, so it wasn't unique to humans. The Catholic Church is not big on birth contral for this reason, they think sex and reprduction go hand and hand (well, you don't have to use your hands during sex, but you know what I mean). I would say most Protestants don't hold this same view, that God also made sex as a really cool way to express our love to one another. But who knows, I could be wrong. As for Catholic priests, they must remain celibate because they feel they can better focus on doing God's work (just as long as there are no choir boys around) without the nagging hinderance of a wife. HA HA! Okay, I jest, the vast majority of Catholic priests are sincere and do not molest choir boys, but I WASN'T joking about the nagging wife. (stepping back quickly) OKAY, I WAS JOKING ABOUT THAT TOO! The Apostle Paul said it is better not to marry and to focus on God if one is able to, but that is pretty unrealistic. Especially ever since the advent of the French bikini (gulp). I was thinking about becoming a priest until I saw Baywatch for the first time. NO WAY, JOSE! But really I'm Protestant. I just like to protest. And I look at homosexuality as any other kind of sin that the Bible speaks against, we must love the sinner, but hate the sin. I struggle with sin, I'm not always moral (though to be honest I don't struggle with homosexuality). Whether the sin (as the Bible defines it, not me) is committing "straight" adultery, or homosexuality, or thinking your grandma looks hot in a gown, or any form of sin, we must be true to Biblical principles and embrace the sinner while not endorsing the sin. The "religious right" as you guys say does not hate gay people, they just hate the sin. And a Christian can struggle with homosexual thoughts and still be an outsanding Christian (much better than myself, I'm not that good). A Christian can struggle with homosexuality and even fall into temptation and have homosexual sex and ask for forgiveness, just as any Christian would do with any other sin, and continue to fight the urges without condoning the "practice" of homosexuality (or any sin they may fall for). Remember, these aren't rules some folks just made up, this is the Bible, what we believe to be the Holy Word of God. This is big stuff. This can't be revoked or rewritten. At least that's how I feel (and meeeellions of others). Hi.”

“"Post a few pictures, that will shut them up."
- bacpac

HA HA! Is this when I should insert a 42 megabyte file image that permanently shuts down the thread? :^Þ”

“"God told Adam and Even..."

There I go again, changin' the names to protect the innocent... ha ha! Sorry, that should be Adam and EVE. Okay, now I'm even.”

“Homosexuals have all the avantages. If they neet someone their own size they instantly double their wardrobe.

- Jerry Seinfeld”

“JC Christ! Buck's above post reminds me why I left the church many years aog. Too much clutter, misinterupting "the Word".

Do you guys relize that you're taling to someone INVISIBLE? Some would call that crazy! Hey, don't mean to offend, but those who throw this "It's in the Bible", "It's Gods Will" can go shake that chit somewhere else.

How dare you guys use your religion for furthur hatred toward your fellow man? Just because a person's Gay, doen't mean there are any less of a person...

Gays have more rights---nigga please!.

They need those laws in the books 'cause they ain't got nothing there to protect them from peeps putting a golf club upside there head just cuz they be Gay. Yes, assault is there, but if it a HATE crime, the punishment is worse, just like if you cap a brother just cuz he's black. That's all.

What are you phuckin hetro's worried about, your son dipping his wick? Would you rather him grow up and wind up killing himself because he doen't "fit in"? How about all of those kids you turn out on the street because of program cuts for foster homes an programs.

Buck - Let me tell you and everyone else on this board that hates Gays ---- It's the Biggest thing in High Schools since the frickin ruler. You wanna know why? The chicks thinks it cool and attracts the boys to them. For both sexes, this is the new rebellion. It's the only thing that freaks out the parents. Why is this happening?Just to name a few:

More sex on TV
More accessible venues to sex on the 'puter, which I might add, is alound in most kids rooms by there parents
Divorce rate it 50% Half of these homes your talking about that is so much better doesn't even have both parents!!!

So it is clear that these Haters don't have a clue.

Wake up and welcome to the phuckin twenty first phuckin century! Accept it, deal with it, put the bible down and move on. Just cause YOUR religion sez it bad, it make it so, only to you and people like you. You have no right to talk for the masses, only yerself.”

“Phaedrus? Are you saying that only religious people are against gay marriage? And that the only reason gay marriages are banned is because of religion? Did you realize that China is not very friendly to "religion", and is definitely not a religous country or base their communistic laws on religious precepts, yet even China, the most populous country on the face of this planet, does not grant legal gay marriages in the same way they do with traditional marriages? Again, I'm confoooosed
No, People are intolerant of minority groups for all sorts of reasons. It seemed to me that you were making a religious argument against gay marriage, since your morality comes from religion, as you said.

We do? I don't think it's just religious people who are hung up on homosexuality? It goes against the grain of natural reproductive nature, and some people find offense for that. How "religious" are a bunch of sick punk kids killing a gay student because he's gay?


How religious are a bunch of zealots who wish to deny the legal rights they have to gays? See the many posts above about reproduction. Stop repeating refuted arguments.

Atheism and secularism are beliefs just the same. You either "believe there is a God", or you "believe there isn't a God". Atheism is a belief system. Why would you bring it up as a population while determing "religious" beliefs if it wasn't so?


Irrelevent to this argument. I'll go into this in detail with you, but not on this thread, since it just muddies the water. I know you like to make every thread about everything, but do try to keep this one a little narrower, okay?

Same with the abortion argument. Same with incest.

We are talking specifically about giving adult gay men and women the right to join in marriage between two individuals. If you can't debate that, then don't.”

“Damn I hate when I forget a tag. ”

“Diversion tactic because there is no "real" ground to argue from. I can sit here all day long and say "God said so. God said so".

SO FRICKIN' OLD! Why?







I SAID SO!!!!!”

“Do you guys relize that you're taling to someone INVISIBLE?
laqtis
07:06:49 PM
11/18/03

Uhhh... with all due respect, laqtis, who are YOU talking to right now? Some fonts on a screen that say "Buck"? Can you see me? Can you see me now? How 'bout now? Boy you sure do have a lot of faith that I even exist! :^D

And gee, laqtis, you talk about sounding "angry" and "bitter" and full of, shall I use your words, "hate"... whoa, you must be "liberal". HA HA!

: "How dare you guys use your religion for furthur hatred toward your fellow man? Just because a person's Gay, doen't mean there are any less of a person..."

laqtis, you're the one talking about hate. If you read my posts (I don't blame you don't, they're pretty winded but that's just because I type really really reeeeally fast), I don't hate gays at all. I love gays. It's the sin I hate, just like I hate the sin my own life. I don't hate myself because I sin. I don't hate others because I sin. But "falling into temptation and sinning" and practicing a sinful lifestyle by choice are two different things. Either way, I don't hate anyone. Christian's aren't here to hate people, and if someone does, well, then they're sinning just the same. And it's not "my religion". Sorry, I can't claim credit for the Bible. Yer gonna hafta go a few rungs up the ladder for that one.

: "Buck - Let me tell you and everyone else on this board that hates Gays..."

Wrongo bongo again. Nice try to make me seem hateful. I love gays. I have friends who are gay. Heck, I even had a gay roommate at one time, I didn't let it bug me. I didn't think him less of a person. Nope, I don't hate gays. But it sure almost sounds like you hate people who don't condone the gay lifestyle. Obivously it doesn't sound like it's the "hate" you hate. You don't believe as me, which is cool, I accept that. I don't believe as you, which, well, doesn't sound so cool to you. Who's more "accepting" here? Just asking.”

“Yes, the tradition of marriage has seen little change in the last 3,000 years prior. Does that make it right?"
- tarabull

But does it make it WONG? Ooops, sorry, I'm still thinking about the Chinese. Does it make it WRONG? Do we say, "well, it's worked for 3,000 years, BUT SCREW IT ALL AND LET'S TRY SUMPTHIN' ELSE"!!!"

Let's try this logic on something else... say... mmm... The INTERNET!

We got along fine without it for years and years. Let's all become luddites! That's it!


Now for my version of a buckery slope:

Progress will come. You guys can kick and whine and complain about it now, and perhaps even get it pushed back a few years. But your children will embrace it. And you'll be the bitter old fools in the corner talking about "in my day the fags...". And then they'll put you in a nursing home and forget you and only visit on Christmas, since the thanksgiving specials at the place are so cheap. And when they DO bring you home for christmas, the grandkids will totally hate you and think you're a mean rotten old bastage with no social skills, just because you can't seem to get over the fact that your nephew and his "friend" kissed under the mistletoe. The final straw really comes when you're watching network TV and scream at the latest reality TV: Queer high for the Pot vendor. The next christmas they forget to even call and you die alone, broken, desperate.

And then I'll laugh my ass off!

:)”

“BTW, Buck, if I don't "condone" the Christian lifestyle, does that bother you? How about if I tell you who you can marry and who you can't?”

“: "How religious are a bunch of zealots who wish to deny the legal rights they have to gays?" - Phaedrus

I have already refuted this, why do you continue to bring it up! :^D Try a new angle. It's not just religous people who are against gay marriage. Even China, one of the most non-religous countries in the world, with the largest population, does not allow gay marriage. Are they THAT religious? I don't teeeeeenk so. History has not accepted gay marriage, nations and people's throughout history have rejected gay marriage for eons. Now you think it's just some religious zealots who are against it? Hardly, Phaedrus, hardly.

: "I know you like to make every thread about everything, but do try to keep this one a little narrower, okay? Same with the abortion argument. Same with incest."

I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means "no". They ARE relevant, Phaedrus. You just can't seem to refute it. Abortion is a "legal" issue with religous ramifications, incest is a "legal" issue with religious ramifications, and "gay marriage" is a legal issue with religious ramifications. They show how morality penetrates our laws, and the importance of historical religous influences in the laws of our culture. And I'm using those as examples because you bring up the legal "rights" of others. Well, if you're gonna kick and scream for the moral legal rights of gays to marry, there are lots of other moral legal rights that have been discarded by liberals, you need to be consistent in your "rights for all".

I find it humorous that can't answer a very simple question. I think I know why though. Here it is again.

What, Phaedrus, are you wishing to deny the rights of those wanting an incestual marriage? ___ Yes ___ No

It's simple. If gays (two same sex consentual adults) have the right to marry, just tell me WHY these same rights can't be transfered to ALL consenting adults? Give me a good reason and I'll stop asking the question. It's the same rights of individuals, it's the same legal issue of marriage, very relevant indeed (even though you keep saying otherwise). Care to answer the question? Or no? It's okay if you don't, but don't say it ain't related. HA HA! Incest - related, I'm so funny!”

“: "BTW, Buck, if I don't "condone" the Christian lifestyle, does that bother you? How about if I tell you who you can marry and who you can't?"
Phaedrus

Hi Phaedrus! I really don't care if you condone the Christian lifestyle, really, I don't. And I wouldn't really care about who you said I could or couldn't marry. But... if you were God...”

“"How religious are a bunch of zealots who wish to deny the legal rights they have to gays?" - Phaedrus

I have already refuted this, why do you continue to bring it up! :^D Try a new angle.

No you haven't. The reason you gave me for not wanting to allow gay marriage is religious. What other reason is there, then? Why does China not allow it?”

“Hi Phaedrus! I really don't care if you condone the Christian lifestyle, really, I don't. And I wouldn't really care about who you said I could or couldn't marry. But... if you were God..."

Or if I were the government...”

“For a person who takes a little pride in what they post, you really have let us down, Buck. Sure, you can go around for pages and pages about how it's a sin and chit like that, but when I get uppity about it with you , instead of debating the issue, you dismiss it with a feeble rebuttle and putting words in my mouth.

When you use your religion as the basis of your point, you're automatically wrong with me. You should not have to had behind "the book". Invisible? God is frickin invisible, you dope! Don't give me this "He's in you, He's in me" crapola. One reason Religion is there to have a set of rules that unruly people must obey, for if they were not unruly, they wouldn't need rules to live by, no? They look for structure, peace, guidance, answers and find comfort in that. COOL!

But don't use that cop out to further you point.

Buck - Yes, this one is directed at you - If you think I'm a little PO'd at you, you would be correct. I've been sitting here all day long looking at all of this bullchit and have had enough. It's really getting old when you and others on this board have to turn this into a Repub/Dem thing. These are phuckin people, not pawns on the chess board. What is happening to these people is terrible and reasons given on this board against this is just as terrible. How long must you all go on hating these people? I find it VERY odd that a religion of "Love" as had such hatred in it's years. Truly sad.....”

“: "Let's try this logic on something else... say... mmm... The INTERNET!" - Phaedrus

Can we use something other than the internet as an example here? Work with me. I don't wanna marry anything that has any relation to Al Gore.”

“well. I'm getting married. Now, my intended is a male heterosexual. but we are unable to have children.
But I'm getting married anyway.
I'm confused. is this okay?”

“No, cindy-lu, sorry.


Silly aint it?”

“The internet has no relation to Al Gore. Gore tried to adopt the internet, but he was seen as an unfit parent.”

“Well look at who he's married to!”