Savage Gulf 1/16-18/04

“No campfires at Stage Road definitely sucks...hiking to Dinky Line for Saturday night would involve a 12-14 mile hike on Saturday...Savage Falls would be about 10 miles, and it's a big campsite.”

“why no fires?”

“What about Saw Mill for Sat night?”

“Yam, they've lost a lot of tree to the pine beetle in Savage Gulf in the last year or so, and that means lots and lots of dead, dry fuel for a forest fire.

We pass Sawmill on Friday, so we'd be backtracking from Collins West to do Sawmill on Saturday...I suppose we could go from Sawmill back to the Stone Door station...”

“those pine beetles are everywhere!!
they're a nausance in BSF, too.

embear?? where'd you go?? you're such a tease!”

“That's what I was about to suggest too bit. It would be sort of a loop. That would put us camping in the canyon with lower temps on Sat night.”

“How big is Sawmill? The short time I spent there last year, it didn't seem to be too big...”

“err,,,,nausance is not the right word. crack, i can't even spell it right.”

“I'm on the phone with the Ranger Station now”

“Sawmill is kinda on the small side, and from what I remember they have a problem with that place closing in heavy rains- it used to flood easily”

“Nuisance.”

“Here's the deal:

First, I had been told about 24 tents per total site. That's not true. They limit it to 7 people per campsite and there are 3 sites for Stage Road. That's 21 total. They don't want the campsites spilling over to form one large site due to impact.

Now to our current issue: The Stage Road campsite is closed, but there are 3 adjacent campsites in the vicinity that are open. These are temporary campsites adjacent to Stage Road. No campfires, and the same capacity appears to be in effect.

It looks like we have 2 issues. First, we're limited to 21 folks. Second we can't have a campfire Sat night, but can camp in the area.”

“How far are Saw Mill and Stage Road apart? The ranger said there was a capacity of 40 at the large campsites at trailheads. That sounds like Friday night will be fine. If Saw Mill and Stage Road aren't too far apart we might could split the trip and half do the loop that bit and I mentioned and half do the original plan. If we wanted to meet and greet at a common place Sat night then that's a possiblity assuming that the person is willing to hike at night against park regs and that the mileage is less than say 1.5 or so.

Any thoughts.”

“Okay, just talked again and here's the scoop. Stage Road will allow probably 50 people in all, but its first come, first serve. Campfires are not allowed because it is like a war zone with trees down everywhere. The ranger is very tough and has found out about us coming, so he knows to look for stuff. This ranger has been known to look through backpacks. My bro- i'll call him Buzz - said to warn everyone and make sure that we don't have anything out in the open. Ranger Buzz wasnt sure when Ranger George would be checking in on us, but we need to have dogs on leashes and no alcohol in site before he comes. If we redirect to Sawmill, there are different rangers, but we still need to be carefull. Ranger George is at Dinky Line also.”

“So this guy has found out about the large internet group and is ready to pounce? I wonder how that happened. I know folks are going to say they read the board, but there are dozens of hiking boards.

embear - are you saying that they will allow more than the 21 that the lady told me about? That'd be great.”

“if everyone brings a stove and fuel for them, we can create a heck of a stove fire!...place twenty or so stoves in one spot and light!”

“This actually makes me feel better about the situation. My only issue is that I was grilling hot dogs for supper. I wonder if I can cook 3 hot dogs in my saucepan on 1 esbit tab?”

“I was referring to embear there.”

“Is the Rangers name George? I'm assuming not, but if this guy is tough it might be a smart thing if I just call him and explain we have a large group and want to know his expectations and explain what we have in mind for this trip. Everyone on this trip is responsibile, well expcept for OPIE, and he may appreciate hearing from us and what our intent is.”

“Go for it Dayhiker! You can do it!”

“Yeah, apparently somebody was calling and asking questions and it leaked through that some big group from an internet site was coming. I can't tell you for sure about the number of people they allow - Ranger Buzz doesnt work on that side, he was just telling me what he had heard through other rangers. I think we should re-route anyway to avoid any problems.”

“Dayhiker, if you call him, please please please don't mention anything about my brother. I don't want to get him in trouble for warning us. Instead of asking for him by name, maybe you could ask for the ranger in charge of that area. I don't want him to find out how we got his name.”

“I think we should re-route anyway to avoid any problems.



I agree with this.”

“What if we did the pseudo loop, camp at Saw Mill, and then use the extra time to just explore this area since all the canyons come together here?”

“Ok, Ok,,,I confess, I called the rangers and squealed on yall.

I did it to protect our parks dammit!



;-)”

“I would like to know who the dumba$$ is that called them over and over and made them nervous about this trip. After lunch I'm going to just call, see if I can talk to the Ranger that works that area and try to make him more comfortable and see what his concerns are.”

“It was probably Ohio Hiker.”

“It doesn't sound like staying at Stage Road is going to be much fun. We should probably change the route and avoid it.

But how to get the plans changed at this late date?”

“Now I'm feeling all nervous and wondering if it was such a good idea to post this stuff.”

“I called once, and just asked about permits for myself at Collins West. Did not say a thing about any big group.”

“It'll be okay embear..don't worry.”

“Don't worry embear. It'll all work out somehow.

dayhiker - It's your call about a re-route. We still have time. We do have a few going that will have a hard time making a high mileage day, so keep that in mind.”

“I don't have my map with me or I would make some suggestions. I'll look at it tonight.”

“Before we start worrying too much about group size (too late?) we should get a more accurate headcount. There are 42 people signed up, but a couple are trolls, a couple are people who don't post much, and a couple have since said they can't make it. There are also probably a few people coming who haven't signed up.

So...count off after me...


1”

“We could shorten the trip up and end at Collins West, but that would mean a lot of cars parked at a place where there's not a lot of room.

We could go Stone Door to Sawmill the first day, then Sawmill to Collins West the second day, then just hike the quarter mile out on Sunday.”

“Embear - all you've done is post the rules for the site. :o)”

“I just spoke at lenght with dayhiker about how we approached this same type scenario at TC2. Nobody went to jail there and I think dayhiker will get this under control and put down the ranger's fear.”

“If the ranger shows up and is under 5'5", we're giving you a call, chili...”

“bit- that would mess up the folks coming in Friday night. Just a comment.

Divinity and I will be there late Friday, Saturday, and maybe Sunday nights.”

“Last time i was at savage station, the Pine bettle loss was horrendus...lots of down trees in the campground...it's not like it used to be...”

“True, I forgot about that.

Another option is to bypass Stage Road and keep on hiking to Savage Falls on Saturday. Savage Falls has 8 sites, so if 7 people per site are allowed, then that would be 56 people allowed. That would make for a long day on Saturday, but we have all day to do it, and it's flat as Winona Ryder's chest.”

“Nice!

Count me as 2 & 3.”

“count me in as 1 #4”

“Where is that dang on-line map?
I found it the other day. Wasn't complete, but useable.”

“I got the official map right here on my wall. There aren't a lot of options that include Collins West the first night. It's all the way at the end of Collins Gulf, and is probably the most remote campsite from the others. It's also the closest non-station campsite to a road access.”

“OK, I am looking at my map right now. I do not know a lot about the area, but I am just throwing this out as an option.

Friday Night - Camp @ Saw Mill
Saturday Night - Camp @ Hobbs Cabin
Sunday Night - Camp @ Dinky Lane

Monday hike out to Savage Ranger Station.

I may have missed something above that would make one of the above campsites not feasable.”

“The climb up out of the Gulf to Hobbs Cabin on the Connector trail is a B-I-T-C-H...but there's no reason that wouldn't work. It's a short hike.

However, people who had planned to come in to Collins West Friday night would be out of luck.”

“Dang. Chili narcked on us. I knew all along that was just some Liberal Flimflam.


Embear --- was that "no alcohol in site" or "no alcohol in sight" or...? <G>”

“OK, I knew I missed something. Which is the campsite that is F'd up?”

“Stage Road...there's nothing wrong with your route WK, it's just that a lot of people were planning on coming in to Collins West Friday night since it's so close to the road.”