Wal Mart

“It's not a question of "rights" - it's a question of what's good for the country and the people in it.

Personally, I think a unified single payer system is better than relying on employers. If someone comes up with a better unified system than Canada has, I'll sign up - if not we should go for something like Canada's.”

“What you don't seem to get wanderer is that Walmart is shirking their responsibility to provide its workers with healthcare. They then force these people to use government 'handouts' when they fall sick.
Just as people shouldn't rely on handouts, then nor should walmart, and I would expect someone with views such as yours to see this.
And I will work to change the system - but then the silly righties will probably whine about it if it does change.
And btw nearly everyone in America relies on 'some company' for healthcare.

If you really gave a #&%!$ about anyone but yourself you'd argue that a decent day's work deserves at least livable rewards.

See Walmart has now got so big it is setting the standard for the retail sector. It needs some sort of restrictions for the good of America. As a patriot I would have thought you'd want that.
Walmart comes into an area, blows the opposition away with Chinese prices and illegal labor practices, and scoops up all the revenue. After a while there are few real alternative retail jobs in that area as no company looking after its workers can afford to stay in business.
Walmart is heading toward being a monoploy based on unethical business practices and needs to be brought into line. If that takes legistlation then so be it. For the moment all that can be hoped for is that customers reliaze the damage they do by shopping there - one at a time.
Only when the profits are hit will Walmart take action ahead of legislation.”

“Sounds to me like socialized medicine funded by Wal*mart and administered by state medicaid systems. I'm all in favor of that. We know how honest the adminsters of state and federal programs are and the tenacity with which they protect our tax dollars.

I wonder how long it will be before Wal*mart hires doctors and puts them in Wal*mart stores across the country to serve their employees at their advertised "always lower price". That's the Doctor for me!

And keep in mind like any other employer they are already paying a mandated 7.65 percent of wages for Social Security and Medicare, not to mention other taxes for Workers Comp, State and Federal Unemployment. From an employer's perspective, the only way to reduce mandated state and federal taxes is to cut back on wages, a tough but necessary decision.

In the end I suspect it will cost employees who depend on those jobs more than it will cost Wal*mart. Who is it going to hurt more?”

“I know a Kmart that fired all its full time employees and told them they could come back and apply for part time jobs.

Why? No benefits for part timers. Duh.

I believe this might have happened all over the country?”

“I forget where the story was out of just before Christmas but wnet something like this. A local laborer organizer hired people to protest outside a Wal-mart to bring attention to the fact that starting Wal-mart employees were being paid $6.75 per hour plus benefits. The protesters were paid $6 per hour with no benefits. Hmm? Work outside in the cold for $6 per hour to protest someone working inside for $6.75 plus benefits. Classic.”

““What you don't seem to get wanderer is that Walmart is shirking their responsibility to provide its workers with healthcare.

Sorry, but you're just flat-out wrong. What YOU don't get, Y2, is that it's not Walmart's responsibility to provide those benefits. That fact all by itself almost makes the rest of your arguments moot.

"They then force these people to use government 'handouts' when they fall sick."

Wrong again. That's not a government "handout", it the social "Saftey net" that was put in place to ensure no-one who needed basic services would do without based upon finances.

"Just as people shouldn't rely on handouts, then nor should walmart, and I would expect someone with views such as yours to see this."

You're wrong yet again. WalMart is not depending upon any "handout", because it's not their responsibility to provide healthcare benefits in the first place!

"And I will work to change the system - but then the silly righties will probably whine about it if it does change."

Good for you, believe it or not I don't like the system either, I often say "I don't make the rules, I just play by them" Of course some will whine, you'll never get any system that gets 100% buy-in from any group.

"And btw nearly everyone in America relies on 'some company' for healthcare."

That doesn't make it "right".

If you really gave a #&%!$ about anyone but yourself you'd argue that a decent day's work deserves at least livable rewards.

Whoa there, Mr. Socialist! How DARE you make an acqusation suggesting that just because I have a different perspective than you that I don't give a #$#% about people!!! I happen to think I care MORE about people because I'm stong enough to tell them THE TRUTH! AND THE TRUTH, which YOU have just been whining about, is that it IS NOT WalMart's (or any other company's) responsibility to pay for healthcare benefits!

Show me ONE place, JUST ONE, where it says that it is an employers' responsibility to do that!

So... my argument, is that YOU LIBBIES don't care about people, if you really did, you'd demand more of them... you'd stop lowering the bar everytime there's a complaint... in the end you do people an incredible disservice by NOT asking anything of them! They end up being Less capable, more reliant, yadda yadda yadda.


See Walmart has now got so big it is setting the standard for the retail sector. It needs some sort of restrictions for the good of America.

Sorry, this isn't Sweden, we don't single out a successful company & change the rules. WalMArt is playing by the rules in this regard... they don't HAVE to pay full healthcare benefits, so they don't!

As a patriot I would have thought you'd want that.

As a patriot, I want government to stay out of business and let the free-market drive competitive offerings by businesses. The free-enterprise, market-drive economy system we have made this country the envy of the world, economically. Why would I want to #^#$ with that? If the gov't would help level the playing field so American businesses aren't competing with foreign one's who don't have to adhere to our laws & regulations, that's the best thing they could do for Business and for employees.

Walmart comes into an area, blows the opposition away with Chinese prices and illegal labor practices, and scoops up all the revenue. After a while there are few real alternative retail jobs in that area as no company looking after its workers can afford to stay in business.

See above... if the gov't leveled the playing field this wouldn't be an issue. On this issue, to some extent, we agree.
last edited: 1/13/06 10:02:42 PM”

“what he said”

“Microsoft does the same thing here in the Seattle area. They hire "contractors" so they don't have to pay benefits. so the contractors sued them for benefits. Now thye have a policy so that contractors cannot work longer than a year (because then they may be required to pay them benefits.) It's not just Wal Mart folks. Get off the bandwagon! It's everywhere. It's called making a profit...”

“They do sell backpacking gear though ... Cheap too. LOL”

“"Personally, I think a unified single payer system is better than relying on employers. If someone comes up with a better unified system than Canada has, I'll sign up - if not we should go for something like Canada's.”- Pedxing

You're talking about health/medical care? It's not working too good (too much people abuse the system)....some provinces are talking about a two tier system....health care for everyone (which sometimes require a long long wait), and private health care for people who's rich enough to afford it.”

“Pixie - that doesn't mean it's right, nor should everyone just quietly accept it.

Walmart's unethical policies harm America on so many fronts and will do so further if everyone just shrugs and says "that's the way it is."

I agree with you to an extent Wanderer - I think the present system for healthcare is poor and expensive, yet you do need some way to provide some form of healthcare to the majority of people and it needs to be affordable.

Lets take the birdflu pandemic they're talking about. You need some way to tackle it on a national level. If it's as bad as people think (I feel there's a media scare story in there somewhere) then the economy would collapse. The healthcare infratructure needs to be there to do something, if not the effect will be worse. To maintain that infrastructure you need to be providing healthcare to the majority of the population.

And dropping coverage provided by the employer would probably end up a situation you'd hate. Kids, wives and husbands start dying and you'll see swings to the left. Your hated 'libbies' would walk the next election as families look for some way to find healthcare for their kids and families.

In an ideal world people would take care of themselves, but people are often stupid, and many would probably not put healthcare first while they appeared to be healthy.

People would also have to choose healthcare over comsumer products, hurting the economy The cost to the individual would almost cetainly rise.

And what if people have to insure themselves individually. Only the healthy would get coverage. Heart problems... well you may as well start putting the cash toward the headstone instead. Diabetes.. sorry.

So you're an employer right Wanderer. What benefits do you offer?

To be honest, without major reform of the entire system, I don't think Walmart should be made to provide healthcare to all its employees, but I also don't think shifting the bill to the taxpayer is right either.

I think consumers do need to be made aware of what they're doing when they shop there. Ideally with informed consumers the market will balance this out - not sure this will happen, but it doesn't mean we should just keep quiet about it.”

“It's called making a profit...”
pixie
12:50:11 AM
1/14/06


Too bad they can't hire children anymore. It's unfortunate Mr. Freemarket stepped in and stopped that practice.

I mean until Corps found it was OK to do this overseas.”

“Good to see you posting, BM. Hope you're doing well.”

“Good point BM. And what about those pesky equal pay laws. A company could make far more profits if they could employ women at 50% of the wage of men.”

“Doing well, thanks!”

“This one brought out the "IDIOT" of both sides.Keep marchin' wingers.”

“This one brought out the "IDIOT" of both sides.Keep marchin' wingers.”

“You know it is people's choice to work at Wal-mart, they get all the paper work before they start working and its a job, something that maybe hard to get in some places, so they take it and don't care about the benifits untill they get sick and think oh well some one should pay for this not me. So they try to get it from who ever they could. In the end it was lack of planning on their part. They could have got there own health care plan but they didn't, maybe because they didn't have the money or decied that it wasn't worth the money. They knew what they were getting into. And i have worked at many minium wages jobs to pay for school and even if i was full time i wouldn't get benifits. The real reason that wal-mart gets bad press over what every one does is that they are so big. What if wal-mart decided to rise there prices by lets say 5 percent to pay for health benifits for their empoloys who would like that. Just think about that, its one way they keep there prices down and in the end that is what every one really wants. Even people that hate wal-mart will end up buying something from them at some point becasue they are cheap.”

“This was an interesting read.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10838942/”

“photoguy - I think that is the point. And the fact they are making huge profits.

It's the fact that they are so bad on many fronts that causes the problems.

The worker issue
The China issue
The way they use these issues to drive out competition is a third factor.”

“Isn't the US the only country that Walmart is in that doesn't have socialistic medicine?”

“you mean universal healthcare uncliff. I think the US is the only developed country without universal healthcare.”

“It does seem strange that universal healthcare, which some say would drag down the American economy, may allow American companies to become more competitive globally.”

“"To be honest, without major reform of the entire system, I don't think Walmart should be made to provide healthcare to all its employees, but I also don't think shifting the bill to the taxpayer is right either."

We are headed toward socialized medicine whether one likes it or not. HealthCare costs are out of control, and since the fed picks up so much of the tab via medicare /medicaid, they are forcing changes in the delivery system downward by decreasing their re-imbursement rates and a few other things. Do a search & you'll also find a lot of data on new "Pay For Performance" programs aimed at getting physicians to better document their outcomes, etc. One of the major players in this whole initiative is an organization called The Leapfrog Group, it was founded by some of the largest employers in the country, GE, etc., with the sole purpose of digging into the details of why healthcare costs so mmuch & what can be done to "fix" what is obviously a broken system. As employers, they just can't afford to continue to pay healthcare benefits as they used to. It's NOT just WalMArt!. There's also a major push by everyone from George Bush to Hillary Clinton to implement some type of National Information Technology infrastructure for healthcare. One of the big cost factors is that if you go to 3 different doc's for some ailment, none of them have any access to your Medical Record, so all three order the same expensive tests, and of course the bill is, at least partially, passed on to the feds. Decreasing all that duplication is one way being proposed to pay for the I.T. infrastructure.”

“This issue was on Lou Dobbs last night and they mentioned the insurance plans for WalMart workers. The part time workers are offered insurance after 2 years of service. Another woman said that the basic Walmart plan they offer is paid for by the employee at $200 per month. I can't remember if that amount was just for her or also her family.”

“In some cases, one hospital will not accept medical tests from another facility, I think for liability purposes so they do their own testing. This happened to me and I got tested all over again with the same tests because I was sent to another hospital. If it is a legal issue they may have to reform that first.”

“I think it's funny (and very sad) when somehas to be "right" or "left".

Why can't someone be a "free thinker"? Why must they be labeled? What if they agree with some aspects, but disagree with other aspects, of the so-called "platform" of either the right or left?

We are sooooo quick to pass judgement, apply labels, make decisions WITHOUT ANY FACTS, just going on our " preconcieved opinions",

wanderer
8:59:33 PM
1/08/06


“Why do you libbies think blah blah blah"

wanderer
5:47:05 PM
1/13/06

so much for practicing what you preach”

“RichB, oftentimes they won't accept the results because if they do the tests again they can charge for them, that's how they make their $$, and is one of the problems with the system! There are also some liability issues, and "patient suthentication" procedures are in the works at many levels to address some of those problems.

CB, I don't know what you're referring to, if you read my last posts discussing the inevitible trend toward socialized medicine, I probably sound like I'm a leftie. Just the facts :)”

“I wondered at the time why I had to have tests redone because I didn't want them done over again. When I asked the doctor, he didn't mention anything other than they couldn't accept someone elses test results. I wasn't happy about it because the tests were painful.”

“Whether you call it socialized medicine or not, I do think we are headed that way. It seems that we as a society have decided that no should be denied essential health care because they can't afford it. The contradictions resulting from that commitment - and our current patch work system of private and government insurers is glaring - ant the costs, both financial and human of the cost shifting battles that take place are significant.”

“Probably more correctly should be called National Healthcare, but it is, in essence, creating a system where everyone has access to same services... therefore "socialized".

I'm not b!tching about that, just reporting the trends.

I feel like Sgt. Friday from old Dragnet days... "Just the facts, mam"!”

“I'm a very social person. There will be a bunch of commies at the benefit for me.”

“"I don't know what you're referring to"

you whined on the daniel thread about how wrong it is to use labels, and then you used a label.

{insert inappropriately smug emoticon here}”

“CB, there's a big difference between using a "label" to identify a group of people who all have, without question, a common factor which applies to the them... as in, I live in California, therefore I am a "Californian", vs. using that label to make broad generalization, as in "You are a Califonian, therefore you are a "fruit-loop".

"Context" is a pretty important "concept", let's all try not to take things out of "context", OK?”

“to take an example from a different post:

"YOU LIBBIES don't care about people"

equals

"using that label to make broad generalization"

its incredible that you dont see that.

"Consistency" is a pretty important "concept", let's all try to be consistent, OK?"

this is like arguing with s-rge lite
last edited: 1/14/06 5:32:25 PM”

“How about posting the ENTIRE comment, not just a part of it?”

“this is like arguing with s-rge lite

Well, he does keep saying "LIBBIE".”

“Just bought a new vacum cleaner at walmartonline. Can't beat those dirt cheap prices, saved 80 bucks over the manufacturer's price.”

“Ok. Lets look at the big picture here. The majority of the democratic party in Md. Is the blue collar mid to lower echelon on the income scale. Although Wally World provides oodles of jobs, the majority are of this same sector. With Md being an extremely expensive place to live the Democrats feel this legislation rings true. Unfortunately for them, with the advent of the internet it is far easier to look at both sides of the issue.

With the US senate seat in Md open for the first time in FOREVER, the democrats find themselves in a bind.

Their Front runner for the seat Mfume will likely be challenged by Mr. Steele an African American whose idioligy is the polar opposites of Mr. Mfumes.

The dilema?

Mr. Steele is ultra popular and is responsible for carrying PG county and thus Mr. Ehrlic into the Govs. office.

This is and remains a major push for the Democrats to buck up their base.

Unfortunatly as well for them is that marylanders see it for what it is. Noone in their right mind in Md. sees Walmart as a "Bully" or "Giant" that needs to be tamed.

The next time my toilet breaks at 11PM and theirs not a Walmart around, do you think the state representative will runout and fix it for me?”

“double or nothing? (double post removed)
last edited: 1/14/06 10:00:27 PM”

“I went back and looked at the context. It is definitely consistent with Crash's cut and paste. Wanderer - your statement is not changed by the context:

"So... my argument, is that YOU LIBBIES don't care about people, if you really did, you'd demand more of them... you'd stop lowering the bar everytime there's a complaint... in the end you do people an incredible disservice by NOT asking anything of them!" You are definitely using a label to make sweeping generalizations - mucho labeling, mucho stereotyping.
last edited: 1/14/06 10:00:08 PM”

“Well, he does keep saying "LIBBIE".”
S-rge

see? even s-rge thinks youre right-biased, and hes so far to the right, hes left.”

“I stick by that statement. What I said is true, and what I said can be proven. Therefore, it is an accurate statement which isn't ""broad-brush labeling" that lumps in a lot of people who don't fit the profile.

Oops... there's that "PC" term "Profiling", I guess that's actually more accurate than "Labeling".

IN GENERAL, I believe it's obvious that the majority of liberals stand for limited self-reliance and an increasing "lowering of the bar" re almost any measurable standard, so if I make some staement that "liberals believe XXX" that's just as accurate as stating that "Conservatives believe YYY".

Let's not get carried away here, folks, if you don't have the ability to discern intent, then there's no point to any kind of exchange attempting to explain it.

Perhaps this is a failure of our education system that we can't have a meaningful, intelluctually-based exchange of this nature.

Just last night, ABC's John Stossel did a report on 20-20 about the failure of the U.S. educational system. The findings: a lack of competitive markets (Our Public Education system!) + unchallenged control by the Unions, who are resistent to change since they'd lose power, are the main reasons why we are lagging so far behind other Western Nations, and continue to do so.”

“you can prove libbies dont care about people?

whatever”

“hehe... try being a republican and living in socialist WA.”

“on the wamart issue the solution is actually quite simple... its called a union.”

“lumberjack, dont you know unions are evil and they eat children?”

“...and they make your breath stink too........oh, wait, thats "onions"....nm....”

“umm unions are the lesser evil.....”