The Terri Schiavo Thread

“Anyone prepare a living will?


Who would you want making decisions about your life (or death) – your spouse or the government?”

“You know before I had surgery recently, I thought about that. Mostly because my family has different views than I do regarding things like organ donation and cremation, and who knows about life support. When I started filling out the papers, it dawned on me that I'd be putting really tough decisions on a loved one's shoulders, and how would that make them feel. I had power of attorney when my dad was sick, and it was scary to think I might have to make a decision about his life/death. Anyway, I haven't completed mine yet but I will.”

“Public backs right to die, poll says

The intervention by Gov. Jeb Bush and the Legislature into the Terri Schiavo case is met with overwhelming voter disapproval.

BY LESLEY CLARK AND PETER WALLSTEN

Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida Republicans reignited a national debate on the right to die when they ordered a feeding tube reinserted into a brain-damaged woman, but the majority of the state's voters believe the politicians got it wrong, according to a new poll.

By nearly three to one, registered voters across religious, party and gender lines told pollsters they disagree with the intervention. While Bush and GOP legislators acted at the request of Terri Schiavo's parents to keep their daughter alive by overruling the wishes of her husband and a court, an overwhelming number of the poll's respondents believe that a spouse should determine whether an incapacitated person without a living will should be taken off life support.

''The governor is clearly in the wrong in terms of public opinion,'' said Democratic pollster Rob Schroth, who conducted the poll for The Herald and the St. Petersburg Times with a Republican pollster, Kellyanne Conway.

The responses were strong.

`THIS WAS A SHAME'

''Why would they go against what the courts and the judges have already decided?'' asked respondent Rosalind Jackson, a Winter Haven Republican. ``That poor girl has just been lingering for so long, and I felt finally she could get some peace. This was a shame.''

''How can I say this politely? It was a travesty, a farce,'' said respondent George Butzin, 46, of Clermont. ``I can't believe someone who espouses getting government out of our lives wants to put government in where it doesn't belong.''

The telephone survey of 800 registered voters, conducted Dec. 1-3, gauged public opinion on a variety of hot-button issues that could drive voter behavior next year in the nation's most populous swing state.”

“I have worked and taken care of people like this woman. They should not be allowed to let die. The sick thing is, that the parents want to take her home with them and care for her. The dirt bag husband would be free and clear. His motives are very clear, he either wants the money from the life insurance or she knows something he doesn’t want told and he’s afraid she’ll come around.

This is one issue that is 100% black and white for me so I’m not looking for agreement.

Good thread V even if it was posted to attack Jeb.”

“It was posted to point out that Jeb is bent on getting government ON the backs of the people.”

“Is it not possible that Jeb's intention was to NOT take away the woman's rights? Doesn't she have the right to live? Isn't that what her parents are saying? Her husband might be a slimebucket, just because he's her husband doesn't mean he has her best interests in mind.

I tend to agree w Nigel on this one.”

“Does anybody know if Terri's team used the defense that common sense dictates that she would have divorced him if she was physically capable because he was cheating on her, and therefore, he should not have spousal control? (tia)

I can't believe this guy gets to make these decisions. A true husband would not be having a relationship with another woman.”

“Don't think that would carry any water, the man's in a very unusual situation, his wife is being kept alive artificially in spite of his legal right to make the decision about whether or not that should be the case. No court is gonna expect him not to have a love life because of that, and they certainly aren't going to take away his spousal rights.”

“I like the fact that the US Cogress is getting involved now. Yesterday, Congress tried pass legislation granting the federal courts the power to review the state court judgments that would let her die. (The Florida legislature is, for the second time, also acting to force her to continue living.) On Wednesday night the House of Representatives passed a bill to let "an incapacitated person" -- or someone who cares about him or her -- go to federal court whenever a state court "authorizes or directs the withholding or withdrawal of food" and when there is no undisputed living will. The Senate passed a bill yesterday that would deal with Ms. Schiavo's case alone -- allowing her parents, who wish to keep her alive, a shot at the federal courts.

Both bills seem to make a mockery of the professed conservative devotion to the sovereignty of states and the integrity of their courts.”

“This is a very sad situation no matter how you cut it. I'm glad I don't have to make the ultimate decision, because frankly I would not feel comfortable either way. And the next to last thing I want to do is pass judgment on her husband.”

“Bison - So much for "until DEATH do us part" ...”

“Geo - I wouldn't judge her husband except for the fact that he was cheating on his wife. I think that's certainly worthy of rebuking.”

“I agree Geo, and having the US Congress micromanage the situation dosen't make it any better for anyone.”

“I heard a funny thing. If you have a dog or cat that is sick and you starve it to death you are breaking the law and guilty of neglect. Do it to someone with brain damage and , hey, no problem! I think the fact that this guy could be completely freed from the situation by giving her parents guardianship, not to mention the fact that he could get millions in doing so (I know Glen Beck has taken 2.3 million in pledges alone) makes me think there is more to it. Like how did she get in this state in the first place?

It’s a waste of life.”

“I think I heard there was a history of abuse.”

“The husband has passed on over ten million dollars, and has had to deal with this for much of his adult life. The only explanation I can come up with is that he honestly believes that she would not want to be kept alive artificially. He's pretty much gone through legal hell for years to prove it so I can't doubt his sincerity. And Nigal, it's not like she's sick and would be being starved, she is being kept alive by artificial means, all that would be happening here is that she would be allowed to die a natural death.

Sarge, The parents used the abuse allegations to sue the husband, they've thrown everything in the book at the guy, and the courts have found absolutely nothing at all to even hint at anything that would substantiate the charges. This is an awful situation, and I understand where the parents are coming from, but frankly their tactics make me sick.
last edited: 3/18/05 8:23:37 AM”

“The "artificial means" by which she is being kept alive is a feeding tube. She is not on a respirator or any other life support. So, to kill her, they have to starve her to death. It should take between one and two weeks.”

“the feeding tube is no different than a spoon someone would use to feed someone who is able to chew. So someone who is being kept alive by chemotherapy should also be allowed to die naturally?
last edited: 3/18/05 8:25:56 AM”

“chemotherapy is a treatment for a disease, a feeding tube is not, it serves no purpose other than to keep her alive.”

“I do more for my dog to keep him alive and happy than these guys do for this poor woman.”

“The question can be asked, WHY is she being kept alive? Could it be in the hopes that she will one day come out of her coma? There was a woman who woke up after 20 years in a coma just last month. And are we to just discount the 33...33!! Doctors who have said that she is cognitive?”

“The bigger question is WHY is Congress pandering to the Right by trampling on State's rights.”

“This thread started with Violin's question about writing a 'Living Will.'

I think he's right on. You also have to sign a power of attourney for health related decisions (perhaps not in all states).

Doing this helps not only legally, but also for the family at a very emotion-laden time.”

“Hey Sarge, don't forget about your boy Newt Gingrich who cheated on his wife while she was undergoing cancer treatment.”

“Congress just suppoened Terri Schiavo! That's right...Terri herself, which now means that by law nothing can be done to harm her until after she testifies. Keen bit of legal manuevering on someone's behalf.”

““The bigger question is WHY is Congress pandering to the Right by trampling on State's rights.”

this is a HUGE factor also. I don’t want euthanasia to be practiced but I also want the states to lead themselves.”

“aero - (1) How is Newt Gingrch my "boy" and (2) what does that have to do with this? Is his wife incapable of making the decision of whether to divorce? Sounds like you're just trying to snipe me when I am having a serious discussion about this.”

““Congress just suppoened Terri Schiavo! That's right...Terri herself, which now means that by law nothing can be done to harm her until after she testifies. Keen bit of legal manuevering on someone's behalf.”

Oh now THAT'S sneaky! good move!”

“Gee, it sounds like Big Government just got bigger...”

“This is the only site I've found that impartialy gave the facts of the situation. http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

I suggest you read it. It addresses most of the questions posed here.

But...

Treebait has told me the she would not want to live if she were in that condition and nothing, absolutely nothing will stop me from honoring her wishes.

Not her parents, not the governor, not the federal government, not the church, not offers of money, and least of all something as meaningless as public opinion.

It would get done and I'll deal with the hell in my head later.

If they had conversations that led the husband to believe that she would not want to be kept in that state then I completely understand his persistence. Beyond that, I'm not privy to the particulars of their lives so I can't say too much. I just know what I'd do.”

“You've judged the husband all through this thread, sarge. What is your point?”

“Bottom line: LIVING WILL!”

“Lets be clear here Nigal, we aren't talking about euthenasia here, were talking about allowing someone to die a natural death. And she is not in a coma, yes in some cases a person can be cognitive after being in a coma for a long time because the important brain functions have been protected, hence the brains need to go into coma. She is in a persistent vegetative state, she is not going to be cognitive at any point in the future, the damage is done. The only question here is does she die now, or does she lay in a hospital bed in a vegatative state for many more years.”

“I find it interesting that so many Christians are fighting to keep her alive. I see death as "Graduation" and I don't consider myself to be Christian, so why are they fighting so hard to circumvent Gods will?”

“I concur.

And that's why I posted above, the importance of getting it in writing and notorized.”

“aero - The only thing I've judged the husband on is that he has been cheating on his wife. Are you denying that this happened?

To me, that is inexcuseable and he should have NO ability to make decisions like this for her.

You might disagree with me, but my point about this is a valid one, no matter how controversial.

If a spouse is cheating on their spouse to me that is WRONG and is worthy of a divorce. She cannot make that decision for herself. The stakes are too great for him to be able to decide that she should die.

aero - If you have a problem with my opinion about that, fine! But you are obviously just as opinionated as I. Get off my back about it and discuss the issues like everyone else on here instead of attacking me over it.

packmule - Nice link. Thanks!
last edited: 3/18/05 8:51:56 AM”

“mtnsteve - Why are you calling it "God's will" that she be taken off life support?”

“Hey . .how about that!

I am right with you on this one . . .we agree.



I frankly think her parents need a bullet in the head too.”

“As I said before, the parents make me absolutely sick. It's one thing to do everything reasonable to keep your child alive, even if wanting to do that is incredibly selfish. But it's another things to make up BS charges against the husband and smear him in an attempt to get control.”

“Amen Mark.

In any event thanks Sarge for bringing this thread up again, and thanks Violin for initial nudge.

I've been meaning to do a living will for a awhile now and just haven't made time to do it. I'd hate to not do it and cause my family this agony.”

“Bison - what did they make up? The abuse charges? How do you know they're made up? (I am not arguing with you, serious question)

Did the parents bring up the fact that he is cheating on her? I think that would be a valid point. The Bible forbids it. In fact, according the the Bible THAT is worthy of divorce, but abuse is not. I think it is a very relevant point to address.”

“Because it's modern science thats keeping her "alive", unnaturally...given natural conditions and surroundings she would pass.

If they could give her treatment, that would be different...she is being kept artificially alive.

Something everyone must consider is the quality of life, not just life. If people truly believe in God, why are they so terrified in meeting her/him ?”

“Sarge, the abuse charges were litigated to death, and they were found to be absolutely unsubstantiated. I personally have absolutely no doubt that it was simply a legal ploy cooked up by the parent's attorney and agreed to by them. They had some documentation of what they called "abuse" but it was stuff along the lines of he exercised her arms for 20 less seconds than they were supposed to be exercised for.
last edited: 3/18/05 9:07:04 AM”

“I too agree with Bison.



and if anyone brings this up later, I will deny it ;-)”

“Uh oh, we brought religion into it. This thread is going to be a hot one today! LOL!”

“Thanks Bison.

mtnsteve - Who is terrified in meeting her/him? That's the 2nd statement like that of yours in the last 15 minutes. You keep asking straw man questions. Why?

mtnsteve - I don't know why you're afraid of letting her live. You know what I always say ... "If they pain don't kill 'ya, it'll make you strong" ; )
last edited: 3/18/05 9:09:14 AM”

“Then why not let nature takes it's course?

It's the Religious Right thats fighting this so hard.
last edited: 3/18/05 9:09:17 AM”

“mtnsteve - Nature? Is a spoon from nature mtnsteve?”

“When it's my pain it makes me strong. When it's someone else's pain it makes me sad.”

“The courts have waded through reams and reams of expert testimony. Congress has much less information on which to act. We on this board know less than Congress.

Folks, we're not God. Congress is not God. The courts are not God. When we set out to play God, there's no way we're ever going to fill those shoes. Terri's parents and her husband have opposing views on what should happen. I cannot pass judgment on either side.

And until I walk a mile in her husband's shoes, there's no way I'm going to judge him either. If that gives anybody gas, tough.”