The Terri Schiavo Thread

“Sarge, babies can be fed by their mothers, Terri Schiavo cannot, she cannot swallow, she needs an artificial feeding tube inserted directly to her stomach in order to maintain life, I don't think that fits anyone's definition of natural.”

“manuka - Try again.

In Feb 1990, she had the "incident".
May 1992, the Michael and the Schindlers stopped living together.
In January 1993, Michael won the $1 mill settlement.

It wasn't until a few months after he won the money (for her rehabilitation) did he order her therapy stopped.”

“Bison - She was able to swallow until after therapy was stopped.

http://www.apfn.org/Schiavo/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm
last edited: 3/28/05 10:28:08 AM”

“??????????

Sounds like some wishful rumoring there!”

“Terri was apparently drinking a lot of iced tea instead of eating.

A standard appetite suppression method is to drink a large glass (10oz) of water 10-15 minutes before meals.
But drink too much water and you deplete body salts, this why they promote gatorade for athletes sweating a lot as gatorade has some sugar and salt added.
Ice tea has sugar but no salts.

Anyway Terri basically flushed out too much potassium which caused the heart attack.
The size of the settlement ($1.2M) is indicative that the doctors should have recognized the symptoms but did not.

Other people have died from drinking too much water in an effort to lose weight fast.

Too much salt is also bad, I played a lot of sports in the tropics for several years, and would dring 1 glass of gatorade for each 2 glasses of water, it is all about balance.”

“I've stayed out of this dogfight but I will make several points. This woman in Florida was not on any life support system other than a feeding tube. Her kidneys and other vital organs were functioning ok until the other day. Not sure what is happening after nine days without water.
>
I don't what the hangup is of this husband for just letting the mother and father have full custody of the woman. If the woman is brain dead as claimed then she won't know what is going on. Also there is no living will or other document for proof that this woman would rather die than be in a vegetative state. Bush and/or Republicans have the right to err on the "side of life."
>
Also it is curious that the man wants the no autopsy and the body cremated after death. There have been charges that he may be responsible for the woman's vegetative state. The state of Florida should do an autopsy.””

“I agree that in any case where there is a lot of publicity there should be a full autopsy.”

“For those that have said that I stay on this relationship thing of Michael too much - I'm listening to the radio to the guy who made brought this story to light, Glen Beck. He just said the same stuff I've been saying about Michael's relationship, his bastard children, etc...

I'd encourage people to listen to his show if you can. He's probably more informed about this case than just about anybody. If it weren't for him, this wouldn't be news.”

“Just because someone gives a deposition doesn't mean that the court finds it credible, Which seems to be the case here, over and over and over again.”

“manuka, do you really think this case should have had the publicity it has received?”

“Bison - just because the courts don't find someone credible, doesn't make it so.

Also, the courts didn't judge this information over and over again. The facts weren't considered over and over again, just the initial ruling.”

“I sure hope Sarge steps up and professes his support for socialized medicine; free prescription drugs; and health care for all citizens.

Think about those who die because they don't have adequate protections.

Or, is it that he is on the Terri conservative bandwagon but has no passion for the remainder of humanity?”

“Sarge, IMO, that guy you're listening to should have kept his mouth shut if he was single-handedly responsible for the publicilty this case has gotten. Let this poor family decide amonst themselves what's best for Terri. Its a personal matter, and the country shouldn't get involed, let alone politicians. 15 years of watching a loved one be nothing but a body in a bed must be horribly difficult.”

“chili - Why don't you ask me about specific issues if you have a concern about my having conflicted interests. Maybe we can start another thread and discuss it instead of adding additional straw man arguments into this.”

“Smiley Girl - The family has worked with him to get this done. It is their decision for him to help them. He has several exclusive interviews with the immediate family on his website.”

“chili, everyone is a straw man to sarge...lol”

“Heidi Law - another former caregiver of Terri. (see above for another one)

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/03-24-05/hlawaffidavit.pdf”

“Ewker - What's your problem? Why do you resort to personal insults? If you have a problem with me, let me know and we'll handle it. Are you having problem discussing this without personal insults? Does it make it easier for you to make your case? "LOL"”

“By "The Family" Sarge means the people who have gone to incredible extent, including slander, to interfere with the husband's legal right to make medical care decision's for his wife.”

“By "family" I mean people who stick by somebody and don't start another "family".”

“excuse me sarge, where was the personal attack. You call everyone a straw man.”

“Sarge,

My point is that I see a lot of people on this bandwagon for one person and remaining silent on the bigger global issue.

People are dying all across this country, every day, from lack of medical resources; lack of heat; from too much heat; from improper diets....etc.

Where is the outpouring of concern for that?

This is one issue, sensationalized. We want to go to heroic efforts to maintain a vegetative state without the minimum efforts to improve the conditions of many others.

Straw man? Hell, now that's a first.”

“Ewker - First of all, you can address me if you have a problem with me, sort of like an adult would. That is one "attack" on your part.

Secondly, saying I call everyone a "straw man" doesn't even make sense.

Thirdly, if you meant to say I say everyone "uses straw man" arguments, that in itself is a straw man and is probably the most ridiculous straw man that's ever been uttered simply because of the irony of it.”

“Yes chili, it is a straw man. It's text book.

You set it up as if I was suggesting certain solutions to things, (or lack of solutions) which I clearly was not. You have no idea what my solution to those things would be, so how could you possibly talk about hypocricy relating to the Schiavo case? You have no idea how much "concern" I have for any of those things, and you didn't even ask. You just make wild assumptions which are just completely false.

Mind if I do the same with you?

Why the hypocricy chili that you want this lady dead but you don't want all handicapped people dead? I mean, geez, they very often rely on others to live, and just to get by. Why aren't you calling on all of the assistance to be revoked?

(That was hypothetical to prove a point)”

“Ewker - no I do not think this should have received the publicity.

Sarge - I apologise I erred on the timeline, but the principle is correct. Terri WAS receiving treatment for at least 2 years and the preponderance of medical opinion is that beyond 2 years there is virtually no hope of recovery.

I do have a problem with the veracity of the afidavit;
1) if Terri was in such responsive condition I do not think the Schindlers would have had any trouble getting custody from the Courts.
2) how come if this nurse had such severe reservations she waited 7 years before saying anything. Perhaps because no one can prove that condition 7 years ago and perjury cannot be proved.”

“manuka - The timeline is key. Michael ordered the therapy stopped after his affair and after his monetary award.

There was more than one affidavit. Also, who said she waited that long to say anything? That's just the written affidavit for the case. That doesn't mean she waited that long to talk about this with people.”

“Sarge, I don't want her dead.

Hell, personally, I don't care if they put the tube in or out. It isn't my decision and I don't have to deal with it.

However, what I do see and do care about is the massive show of support on this single issue by people who do not show any support for more humanitarian issues.

Now maybe you don't fall into this category and maybe you have spent an equal amount of time for all other issues. If so, fine. However, if not, wouldn't you have to admit a certain amount of hypocricy is involved in the hype surrounding this case?”

“I simply can't read this thread because it's an emotional issue for me and I don't want to see people on here that I otherwise hold in high regard speak as they are. *poof*”

“chili - No. Not at all.”

“Sarge - and after 2 years which seemed to be the timeline when a recovery could be expected.

Both Affidavits were in 9/2003, one for a 1995-1996 period the other for 1997.
When a witness comes forward it is standard to get such affidavit immediately, because what do you submit if the witness has an auto accident and dies? you have no testimony.
That both of these occurred in 9/2003 indicates a Court hearing where an attorney advertized to locate witnesses. This is also consistent that as soon as these people came forward an Affidavit was obtained immediately. The judgements about Terri post date these affidavits, therefore they have been submitted to the Court and have been either discredited, or overridden by other testimony.”

“sarge, anyone who disagrees with you is a straw man. You have said it over and over. The only problem I have with you is your hate of her husband. The facts have been posted in many timelines but you always fall back on what you hate...him.”

“Yeah, you are right buck.

Nothing I say or do here will help humanity in the least.

I am better off to go this afternoon to the nursing home and read the paper to the residents.

They can't do it themselves and need someone to do it for them. I can have a direct input there.”

“... or ignored ...”

“[double post]
last edited: 3/28/05 11:17:30 AM”

“Ewker - Not everyone who disagrees with me "is a straw man". And I haven't "said it over and over". Do you know how ironic that statement is? Do you have a clue?”

“hahaha..you say straw man almost as you hate him..well not that much”

“Ewker - After looking at your pictures, I certainly would NEVER call you a straw man. Trust me. I promise I will never call you a straw man. You have my word. If I ever called you that in the past, please forgive me. I take it back, sincerely! I couldn't have been more wrong.

ps - I "say" straw man as much as "straw man arguments" are uttered. What does that say about your arguments?
last edited: 3/28/05 11:22:28 AM”

“OK, children, let's use a little more maturity on this thread, huh? Its no longer a lively debate, you've turned it into something useless now. Way to go.”

“SG - That's what I've been trying to say.

I hope you caught my response to you above also.”

““OK, children, let's use a little more maturity on this thread, huh?"

Oh sweet naive Smiley Girl. How long have you been around here? LOL!

all the threads end up down here in the gutter. Haha!”

“how old are you sarge? you act like a little kid. I suppose what you posted about me was funny in your mind..so be it”

“Yep, Sarge, I did catch that. My personal opinion is that's wrong of the family to bring outsiders in. THough, I'm not in the middle of the emotions. I guess if you're desparate for someone's life, you'd go to any length. I still think after 15 years, its time to let someone go though.

For either side of the argument, its still a sad thing to have someone die.”

“Ewker - How intelligent are you? Judging by the way you use "straw man" in a sentence, you don't even know what it means.

If I was acting like a "little kid" then what does that say about you? I was trying to mimic your argument style of using personal attacks. Did you somehow miss that? Oh, that's right ... the "intelligence" thing.
last edited: 3/28/05 11:36:13 AM”

“Smiley Girl - You said it's the families decision to handle this themselves ... then you say it's wrong for them to bring outsiders in.

That's classic.

Can I quote you? "Let this poor family decide amonst themselves what's best for Terri."
last edited: 3/28/05 11:38:14 AM”

“Yeah, Nigal, I know they end up in the gutter. I guess my personal opinions of some of the people on this board end up in the gutter too when I continually read such immature stuff.

Not that I'm completely mature all the time either. :) But, I'd rather see true debating than personal attacks. True colors can shine even through the internet.”

“Smiley girl - In case you haven't noticed, I've refrained from that until now. Ewker would not let up with personal attacks no matter how many times I asked. I only said that to make a point. I hope you don't judge me by taking that statement about Ewker out of context.”

“Smiley, wasn't that you in the Sack-O-Severed Heads??

You looked pretty silly to me!”

“Right, then she said...

"My personal opinion is that's wrong of the family to bring outsiders in."

She didn't back peddle on anything.”

“"True colors can shine even through the internet.”

Why is it always easier to show my ass than my true colors? Or is my ass my true self? Let's take a vote...”