The Terri Schiavo Thread

“Ewker - After looking at your pictures, I certainly would NEVER call you a straw man

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Owned!”

“Sarge, you could be the bigger man and ignore the personal attacks. Just because he's doing it doesn't mean you have to resort to that. Shows your true colors also.

And, go ahead and quote me. That's cool. But, if you read further, you'd understand what I meant about getting the radio guy involved. I just don't think its right, but they can do whatever they want to do. Its their daughter.


The whole thing to me really hits home with the fact that I should do a living will, or at a minimum make my wishes clearly known to my family.


Oh, and I also wanted to say her husband is a scumbag for cheating. I think I can understand the desire to have an intimate relationship with someone else, but that doesn't make it right. Marriage is about commitment, through good times and bad, and unfortunatly, this guy got stuck with the bad. That doesn't give him the right to cheat.

Still, I hope Terri dies with some shred of dignity, too bad the entire world is watching.”

“Nigal - That was in a later post, after I told her that they did bring others in. (namely Glen Beck)”

“Whew, I wanted to respond to so many things, I hope I hit them all!!

Nigal, my dear friend, please don't ever show me your ass. :)”

“Smiley girl - This is out of hand. My "personal attack" was just a point being made. That's all. Much like you said I need to "be the bigger man" and like when you attack me saying my "true colors" are showing. By your own logic, you're being hypocritical. I don't need you to preach to me about how to defend or not defend myself. Thank you. I can only take so much before I'm going to make a point of it, much as you did by pointing out my "true colors".”

“Smiley you are right, it is the families business not anyone else's about this. But the courts have said it is her husband who has the authority to make this decision not her parents. He is her legal guardian and has spousal control over her.

What sarge doesn't like is that the husband had an affair after she had been in a coma for many yrs.”

“Ewker - Keep talking. The more you talk, the more foolish you look.

Yeah ... another straw man (look it up Ewker).

Yeah ... she was in a coma, that's it ... that's the ticket.

Ewker, you are so clueless regarding this, I should stop debating you and ask you for more information about the case.”

“Page not found, Nigal!


Sarge, if I helped you prove a point, you're welcome.

Ewker, well, I don't have much nice to say so I won't say anything. I still like ya, though. :)

Oh gosh, look at the time, I better get back to work!
last edited: 3/28/05 11:53:52 AM”

“Try it again. I fixed it. You might go blind though.”

“Nigal - Was that supposed to be about me? Surely your faith will convict you to tell the truth.”

“"Nigal, my dear friend, please don't ever show me your ass. :)”

Smiley Girl
11:45:58 AM
3/28/05”

“Great timing ...”

“sarge, the only foolish looking person on this thread is you. No matter what anyone says they are wrong and you are right. Have you agreed with anyone on here?”

“You mean besides Stove Stomper, Buck, Nigal (on much of this), Oryx and lipstick hiker?

No.”

“Hey Ewker, do you know what an appeal to belief is?

No?

I didn't think so.”

“Is Sarge related to Ohio Hiker?”

“wow, that's 4 out of how many who have posted. More than that have expressed her right to die and not to linger in a veggie state for the rest of her life.”

“Hey guys.

Ok. All you guys are doing is making personal attacks.

If that's what you want to do, fine. email me rb_allen@hotmail.com and put TrailTalk in the header. We can meet in person and discuss this person to person.

In the meantime, does anybody want to discuss this issue without discussing me?”

“What amazes me is the the "right to life" factions championing this cause mostly comprised of the "stick a needle in their arm and execute them" crowd.”

“wow, that's 4 out of how many who have posted. More than that have expressed her right to die and not to linger in a veggie state for the rest of her life.
Ewker - Are you going to answer the "appeal to belief" question?”

“chili - Speaking of the "stick a needle in their arm" crowd ...

What's your opinion on letting the courts decide if someone should die? Do you think the courts are 100% accurate? Do you think we should rely on them for life/death causes?”

“With you on that one Chili. They don't seen to be able to make any connection with that either.”

“y2 - Same question to you. That logic can be easily reversed. Do you believe the courts are not trustworthy enough to make these decisions?”

“yeah sarge I know what it is. your the one that needs to examine it. You don't like the fact that he has the say in this matter. Problem is every court has agreed with him not the parents.”

“No, you're shifting the point there sarge. There shouldn't be a death penalty simply because of the number of mistakes the courts make.
It's just that many of those who've ambushed this poor woman's case to further their own agenda. DeLay, Frist, Bush - and talk about right to life are often the strongest proponents of leading people to a room, tying them to a chair and killing them.
last edited: 3/28/05 12:19:38 PM”

“Do you think we should rely on them for life/death causes?”
Sarge
1:07:51 PM
3/28/05

The Courts should follow the law.

Juries actually make the decision on capital punishment.

The underlying questions is.."Is the law right?"”

“LOL Ewker - You say you know what appeal to belief is then you follow it up with "Problem is every court has agreed with him not the parents." - You crack me up dude. Seriously. Please, keep talking.”

“y2 - I didn't shift the point. chili did. So you are saying "There shouldn't be a death penalty simply because of the number of mistakes the courts make.", yet in this case, there should be a death penalty ruling by a court? Who is being hypocritical here?

chili - What are you saying? The law is wrong? Then why are you relying on the judge's decision for this? Juries don't make the final decisions on capital punishment, but either way, it's still the law.

What are you 2 saying here? That the "right to lifers" are hypocrites or they're not? If they are, so are the people who want the courts to decide this and who do not support death penalties for criminals because they don't trust the courts.”

“Sarge, can I ask a question?

Why do you want to debate this if you don't want to at least consider the positions taken by the opposition?

Is anything here going to change your mind?

And certainly you don't expect to change anyone elses mind by ranting, do you?”

“Juries don't? Well paint me red and call me a barn.

Two of the three capital cases I tried went to Jury on the Death Penalty stage. The other one was acquitted or I highly suspect I would have been three for three.”

“Oh, and Sarge, I am relying upon the Court's decision, because it appears to have followed the law.”

“chili - When I started this I wasn't sure what I think should happen to her. It wasn't until I heard the arguments by the people wanting her dead that I made up my mind.

So yes, something will (has) changed my mind.

I am not expecting to change people's minds. Why are you debating it too? Same question right back at you.”

“sarge, your the one who can't except what the court has said.”

“Oh, and Sarge, I am relying upon the Court's decision, because it appears to have followed the law.

There are more problems with this case than can be easily counted. If you honestly believe that, you haven't paid attention except to one side of the story.

The judge had money donated to him by Michael's lawyers.

The doctor who gave his opinion to the court about Terri is a right-to-die activist.

Research both sides of this like I have before making a claim like that.”

“Sarge, there are many hypocracies in this - it emphasises the difficulty of the situation.
So you do acknowledge the problems with the position of those who argue for a dealth penalty and a right to life?”

“In case you didn't notice, I have really debated this.

I don't think you will find where I put in a position one way or the other on what is "right" in this case.

What I have done, however, is to point out this case is receiving a lot of hype and that there seems to be a group shedding tears over Terri who don't really care to help improve the conditions of others who aren't at the focal point of the media.”

“Ewker - Yeah, I'm the only one. It's me against the whole rest of the world.

I'll be on ABC Nightly News tonight to give the "other" side of this Ewker. Watch for me.

I'm on all the talk shows in many disguises discussing this. Sometimes I'm a lawyer, family member, case worker, doctor, all kinds of things.

Shhhh ... please don't tell anybody. It's our secret, ok Ewker?”

“The judge had money donated to him by Michael's lawyers.

The doctor who gave his opinion to the court about Terri is a right-to-die activist.

Research both sides of this like I have before making a claim like that.”
Sarge
1:30:21 PM
3/28/05

Why is it that some people see adverse decisions by the Court as being a big conspiracy?

Are you suggesting the State Courts; US District Courts; Circuit Court of Appeals AND the Supreme Court have all been swayed by money from the husband?”

“Sarge - your whole case seems based on picking up evidence that wasn't included in the court case. Much of this supposed evidence comes from a desire to protray her husband in as poor a light as possible. I would suggest you're the one not open to other opinions here.”

“y2 - Worded like that, no. I do acknowledge problems with the court system though.

chili - How do you know they don't help to improve the conditions of others who aren't at the focal point of the media? My experience is completely different. The "right-to-life" religious right in this case is the same people I see doing just that. Where do you get that from?”

“"It's just that many of those who've ambushed this poor woman's case to further their own agenda. DeLay, Frist, Bush - ..."

y2

Don't forget Pat Robberson, this side show has the phones ringin' like mad at The 700 Club.”

“chili - I'm going to say this for about the 5th time now. Nobody has responded to this any of the times I've said it.

The courts did not re-look at the evidence. They only ruled on the previous decision.”

“y2 - I changed my mind on this. Did you?

If not, then you have no right to say to me that I am not open to other opinions.”

“Which is the way the legal system works. Unless ground for hearing the case again can be found then my understanding of the law is that they can not review the case again.”

“sarge,sarge,sarge..shaking head your the only one on here doing it.

most polls I have seen show you and the rest are in the minority on this.”

“I haven't changed my mind, but I've certainly considered that the easiest thing to do might be to turn her over to her family to continue the care she's currently receiving. I think the whole point the the argument was that this is not what she would have wanted though.”

“LOL Ewker - What else brother?

Are you cracking me up on purpose?

I mention your straw man, and you come back with even more. Then I mention your appeals to belief, and it's like you're trying to set a record naming as many as you can.

LOL - What else you got?”

“From the 11th Circuit Opinion.

--While the district court conducted de novo review of plaintiffs’ claims, we review the district court’s denial of temporary injunctive relief only for an abuse of discretion. This scope of review will lead to reversal only if the district court applies an incorrect legal standard, or applies improper procedures, or relies on clearly erroneous factfinding, or if it reaches a conclusion that is clearly unreasonable or incorrect. Short of that, an abuse of discretion standard recognizes there is a range of choice within which we will not reverse the district court even if we might have reached a different decision.



Did you read the Opinion, Sarge? Do you know the Difference between "de novo" and "a review on the record"?”

“y2 - I agree turning her over would be easiest. I think the whole point about the argument that this is not what she would have wanted is the whole point ... it is an argument which has not been resolved.”