The Terri Schiavo Thread

“Gephardt is a putz, and was in office recently enough to not sway my point. I just rambled them off the top of my head. My Washington sh_t list is too extensive for critical criteria!


and, Phaedrus!

Thuddup!!”

“what Phaedrus said

Treebeard, didn't we have this conversation before about "broad brushes"?”

“Actually, Sarge, I was just trying to see if I was right. I was. It was pretty easy to emulate you - just never take responsibility for obvious intent.”

“Did you just call me a broad?

j/k

You know, sometimes we just get the urge to flame!!!!!!”

“Phaedrus - in context Treebeard and I discussed what I meant by "liberals" several days ago. So if you'd review the history of this thread, you'd see your observation of "obvious intent" is "obviously wrong".”

“allright you liberals you will not question what I say...got that/ Sarge
last edited: 4/01/05 8:32:56 AM”

“Sarge gets to redefine the language to fit his whims.”

“... ahhh, but I may as well try and catch the wind.”

“if you say so Phaedrus, is you say so ...

Phaedrus, do you always use descriptive terms as to paint a broad brush? If you say "republicans voted for xxx" you would mean "all republicans"? People just don't talk like that Phaedrus. If you want to hold me to a different standard, fine. I'll do the same with you.”

“Yeah, try looking up "connotation" in the dictionary. If you weren't referring to the others on this board who have been called liberals in the lexicon of this specific environment, you might try describing a little more specifically who, exactly, you are referring to, rather than laying it out there and taking umbrage to people reading it as most would.

It gets tedious.”

“Phaedrus - At least you stand for something important. Fight the cause, brother. If somebody isn't using language the way you want them to, it's best to fight it to the end and make fun of them as much as possible. You sound like a great guy. A real winner. I bet you have a lot of friends. Keep up the good work! Fight for the cause man. You've picked a good one.

Did you ever look up the previous conversation with Treebeard and myself when I specifically explained that when I say "liberals" I don't mean "all liberals" just like most people don't when they say such things? Probably not, because ignorance is bliss. It's better for you not to know the truth. It's easier to support your position that way.”

“Well why don't you CRY about it? Wuss.”

“Living will is the best revenge

By ROBERT FRIEDMAN, Times Deputy Editor of Editorials

Published March 27, 2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like many of you, I have been compelled by recent events to prepare a more detailed advance directive dealing with end-of-life issues. Here's what mine says:

* In the event I lapse into a persistent vegetative state, I want medical authorities to resort to extraordinary means to prolong my hellish semi existence. Fifteen years wouldn't be long enough for me.

* I want my wife and my parents to compound their misery by engaging in a bitter and protracted feud that depletes their emotions and their bank accounts.

* I want my wife to ruin the rest of her life by maintaining an interminable vigil at my bedside. I'd be really jealous if she waited less than a decade to start dating again or otherwise rebuilding a semblance of a normal life.

* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around the country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same transient emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that little girl who got stuck in a well.

* I want those crackpots to spread vicious lies about my wife.

* I want to be placed in a hospice where protesters can gather to bring further grief and disruption to the lives of dozens of dying patients and families whose stories are sadder than my own.

* I want the people who attach themselves to my case because of their deep devotion to the sanctity of life to make death threats against any judges, elected officials or health care professionals who disagree with them.

* I want the medical geniuses and philosopher kings who populate the Florida Legislature to ignore me for more than a decade and then turn my case into a forum for weeks of politically calculated bloviation.

* I want total strangers - oily politicians, maudlin news anchors, ersatz friars and all other hangers-on - to start calling me "Bobby," as if they had known me since childhood.

* I'm not insisting on this as part of my directive, but it would be nice if Congress passed a "Bobby's Law" that applied only to me and ignored the medical needs of tens of millions of other Americans without adequate health coverage.

* Even if the "Bobby's Law" idea doesn't work out, I want Congress - especially all those self-described conservatives who claim to believe in "less government and more freedom" - to trample on the decisions of doctors, judges and other experts who actually know something about my case. And I want members of Congress to launch into an extended debate that gives them another excuse to avoid pesky issues such as national security and the economy.

* In particular, I want House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to use my case as an opportunity to divert the country's attention from the mounting political and legal troubles stemming from his slimy misbehavior.

* And I want Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to make a mockery of his Harvard medical degree by misrepresenting the details of my case in ways that might give a boost to his 2008 presidential campaign.

* I want Frist and the rest of the world to judge my medical condition on the basis of a snippet of dated and demeaning videotape that should have remained private.

* Because I think I would retain my sense of humor even in a persistent vegetative state, I'd want President Bush - the same guy who publicly mocked Karla Faye Tucker when signing off on her death warrant as governor of Texas - to claim he was intervening in my case because it is always best "to err on the side of life."

* I want the state Department of Children and Families to step in at the last moment to take responsibility for my well-being, because nothing bad could ever happen to anyone under DCF's care.

* And because Gov. Jeb Bush is the smartest and most righteous human being on the face of the Earth, I want any and all of the aforementioned directives to be disregarded if the governor happens to disagree with them. If he says he knows what's best for me, I won't be in any position to argue.

Robert Friedman is editor of Perspective. He can be reached at friedman@sptimes.com”

“Phaedrus - Why don't you call me a wuss to my face, wuss?”

“Perfect!”

“I know you are but what am I?”

“You tell him Sarge; dueling keyboards at 50 paces!”

“now children stop misbehaving or you both will go to the TT time out corner”

“I know you are but what am I?

Ironically, you called me the name. Now you're making fun of me mocking you? You're brilliant. You just made fun of both of us at the same time. What a genius.”

“Sarge, you miss a point better than a fish dodging a chopstick.”

“What a great editorial.

perfect.

Thanks.”

“Wow. Robert Friedman has a nack for oversimplification.”

“Phaedrus - Because you say it's so, it must be so.”

“Nope - RF hit the nail exactly on the head.”

“And now back to reality ... http://www.glennbeck.com/news/03-24-05/CIyerAffidavit090203.pdf”

“"* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around the country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same transient emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that little girl who got stuck in a well."”

“I know it's been posted a few times, but you might try reading

"A REPORT TO GOVERNOR JEB BUSH
AND THE 6TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN THE MATTER OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO"

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf”

“I bet sarge listens to Rush and Hannity also. heck no one has mentioned G Gordon..is he still out there”

“Ewker - Is that what you bet? Is it? Is that what you bet Ewker? Whatcha bet? Huh? Whatcha bet Ewker?”

“Now there's an intelligent bit of debating.”

“sarge, your how old again...lol”

“Sarge, why do you hate our court system?”

“LOL - Yeah, You're name calling, harassing me, making bets as to what I listen to, and you want to know how old I am for mimicking your childish ways.”

“Phaedrus - Did you support our court system when Bush was elected in 2000? Did you make any negative comments about it? Tell us the truth.”

“Alright everybody, ... stop harrassing sarge. Pick on somebody your own age!”

“name calling..where, when

harassing you..am I calling you up in the middle of the night waking you up

bets...where? that is just a saying, kind of like you with your comments that liberals like Jesse Jackson

my childish ways...go back and look at yourself on here”

““Phaedrus - Did you support our court system when Bush was elected in 2000? Did you make any negative comments about it? Tell us the truth.”
Sarge
10:28:49 AM
4/01/05

About the system? No.

BTW, are you actually a veteran?
last edited: 4/01/05 1:00:30 PM”

“Phaedrus - Ok, let me be more specific since you obviously are trying to evade the meat of the matter. Did you make negative comments about the courts when Bush was elected in 2000?

Yes, I am a veteran. I was armoror for 1/9 Air Cavalry. Why? Are you lonely? Looking for a good time?”

“No thanks, Sarge.

And, no, I didn't make derogatory comments about the courts at the time. I did, and still, do have faith in our system of courts.

I asked if you were a veteran to see if you were the first combat veteran I've ever had contact with who advocated a system of torture that would invalidate our protections against torture of our own soldiers.

I think you already admitted you were lying about that, so let's move on.”

“name calling..where, when

I'll answer that as soon as you answer this question you avoided when you called me a name caller:

“Ewker - What name did I call him?”
Sarge
11:58:32 AM
3/23/05

harassing you..am I calling you up in the middle of the night waking you up

You think harassing is just when somebody calls you up in the middle of the night and wakes you? Wow! You are much dumber than I originally thought.

bets...where? that is just a saying, kind of like you with your comments that liberals like Jesse Jackson

So ... you're a hypocrite? Ok. Got it.

my childish ways...go back and look at yourself on here

I've only acted that way in response to others acting that way after asking them to stop and stick to the topic numerous times. Including you. You are very childish and I've asked you to have an adult conversation with me, but instead you resort to childish and fallicious arguments.
last edited: 4/01/05 2:54:49 PM”

“Phaedrus - If I was, I wouldn't be the first. Apparently Kerry did it, so he must have seen some value in it.”

“sarge, even when people put out facts you beat around the bush and don't except them. You want more facts but you never put any out yourself. You use Beck as a fact when he isn't a fact. He is an opinion on the matter. Other people post facts about what the courts ruled but you disagree with those facts.

I think this thread is a game to you. You admitted you troll..so troll along all you want.”

“Schiavo Case Proves Dems are Starving for Leadership
by Arianna Huffington

This column is not about Terri Schiavo and the wrenching spectacle that has surrounded her tragic fate. May she rest in peace.

It is about Congressional Democrats and how they once again pathetically misread what moral values mean in a political context. May they miraculously wake from their persistent vegetative state--or it won't be long before they are receiving their political last rites.

Ever since November, Republicans (aided and abetted by a poorly worded exit poll) have not only succeeded in defining the last election as having been about moral values, they've succeeded in defining moral values. In the GOP's extraordinarily abridged moral dictionary, fighting against gay marriage is morally valuable; fighting against 12 million children living in poverty is not.

Democrats, meanwhile, have been going through the most embarrassing public identity crisis since Anne Heche couldn't decide if, when it came to the bedroom, she preferred surf or turf. They've been mastering the feeble arts of second-guessing themselves and ducking for cover.

While real political leadership is determining the direction the country needs to go and convincing the public to follow you down that road, Democrats keep choosing the path of least resistance. Party leaders have been sticking their fingers in the air, feeling which way the political wind is blowing, and then chasing after these zephyrs of public sentiment. Which is bad enough. But making matters much, much worse, they are consistently misreading the wind--an affliction that has led to their being blown away in three straight elections.

The Schiavo case is a perfect example. Before the cards had even been dealt, Senate Democrats decided that the Republicans already held all the aces. So instead of calling Dr. Frist's bluff, they folded, sat out the hand, and headed into the kitchen to see what kind of sandwiches Felix was whipping up. Not a single Democratic senator formally objected to the pro forma voice vote that sent the Schiavo bill to the House, where, with a few notable exceptions--especially Rep. Barney Frank and rising star Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz of Florida--Democrats were nearly as compliant.

In an interesting twist, it turns out that Bill Clinton had a behind-the-scenes role in the party's decision to adopt a hands-off policy on the Schiavo debate. According to CBS News, the former triangulator-in-chief helped sway Schiavo bill backer Tom Harkin, "egging him on" to roll over and play dead--an odious echo of his efforts to get John Kerry to come out in favor of all 11 state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. This kind of strategic calculation may have been all right in the mid-'90s, but not today, when the party is in desperate need of bold, decisive leadership.

So the Democrats punted; Frist, DeLay and Bush got their photo ops; and the reptilian Randall Terry was born again as a media figure. Then the polls started pouring in--with each and every one showing that the vast majority of the American people thought the Republicans had wildly overreached, seeking a political advantage as opposed to acting out of concern for Terri Schiavo.

But the Democrats, having gone MIA, were unable to ride the tidal wave of public sentiment. Yet again. For years now, they have failed to grasp that when it comes to their party's core issues--including providing affordable health care, protecting the environment, safeguarding Social Security, gun control and basic abortion rights--they are on the same side of the fence as the majority of Americans.

Look, I understand why the Democratic powers-that-be didn't want to be seen as fighting to end Terri Schiavo's life. They've got enough problems without giving Karl Rove and his GOP image masters an executioner's song to sing in 2006. And, if the decision were up to me, I would not have voted to pull the feeding tube. As a mother, I deeply empathize with the plight of Terri's parents--and don't see why, given their willingness to take over their daughter's care, they shouldn't be given that chance. But it wasn't my decision to make--just as it wasn't Congress'.

And being steamrolled by the Republicans or dancing on Terri Schiavo's grave were not the only two options open to Democrats. If they hadn't been running around hiding from their own shadows, they would have easily found a larger moral frame in which to put the fight over Schiavo's fate.

If the Republicans insist on making the "culture of life" a federal issue, the Democrats should, by all means, let them. But they need to make sure that the national debate doesn't center on tragic anomalies like the Schiavo case but on the thousands of people whose lives are cut short because they lack access to decent health care or on the prolonged suffering of the millions of children living in poverty.

Instead of allowing themselves to be cowed by the fear of looking like they're coming down on the immoral side of the moral values debate, Democrats should snap out of it and demand that the president interrupt his next vacation and that Bill Frist hold another midnight session of Congress to address the moral disgrace of 45 million people with no health insurance and 36 million people living in poverty. This is the only way to reclaim the moral high ground.

© 2005 Arianna Huffington”

“You use Beck as a fact when he isn't a fact. -- Ewker

That doesn't even make sense. Are you native to America?”

“Ewker - You said you were done with this thread. Why do you lie? You're a liar and you know it. Stop lying.”

“Phaedrus - Why don't you call me a wuss to my face, wuss?”
Sarge
11:05:53 AM
4/01/05

...because Phaedrus is like Sampson. If you take away his keyboard he loses all his strength and courage.”

“Interest piece SD. I basically agree. The Republicans are organized to lead us in the wrong direction and the Democrats are hardly organized to whine about it. In many instances fairly level headed but timid politicians aren't too bad, but the Dems provide no real alternative vision.”

“The Repubs never stop campaigning.

The Terry Shiavo circus is case in point.

What will the next "issue" be?”

“The radical right did hurt themselves over the Schiavo case. The amount of energy and passion dedicated to artificially maintaining life in the body of a woman who had lain in a vegative state for very many years, seems very odd coming from people who claim to have great faith in Heaven and in God. Whatever happened to "let go and let god?"

How other lives could have been saved if the same level of energy and commitment had been expended dealing with starvation, disease or malnutrition elsewhere? Or by improving access to preventative health care for the uninsured?

To me, it seems sacreligious to artificially prolong the life of a human body so long after the cerebral functions and tissue have faded. Lord, deliver me from such deliverance.”

“This was "run up the flagpole" like the Elian Gonzales Circus.”