The Terri Schiavo Thread

““sarge, you can read it anyway you want. You think you are right and everyone else is wrong.”Ewker

Ewker - Are you right about that and I'm wrong about that? 'Cos that's what it sounds like you're saying. Please correct me if you actually think you're wrong about that and I'm right about that. Thanks.”

“last word”

“word”

“sarge, you keep going on about how its possible he could have killed her, theres so many ways to do it without leaving a mark, you know cuz you trained with rambo, etc etc. only recently have i seen you concede that there is no evidence. either you want us to think he killed her or you were just typing to hear yourself type, which im beginning to suspect
last edited: 7/08/05 11:27:31 PM”

“garblegarble
last edited: 7/08/05 11:29:57 PM”

“oh and btw, youre a dick, violin, for bringing this back up.”

“Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, flat heads.



am not

are too

am not

are too

am not

are too

your a bigger one

no you are

am not

are too

you may continue ;-)”

“you too, fatty”

“That the best ya got, uncle ugly :-)”

“i got yer girl, thats all that matters”

“The one with the infection?”

“Or the one with the glass eye?”

“This passed week has torn my heart from my chest. I had to say goodbye to the most righteous man I have known in my life. My grand father Roy. Yeah, I know. Everyone hears, “My grandfather died.”, and they think it’s some small thing because they were old and a grandfather. My grand father was the rock of my family. A true patriarch of a generation that knew what was right. His pace maker did not fire while he was driving and he passed out at the wheel and was gravely injured. He was alive, unconscious, had no brain damage but was paralyzed from the neck down. I had to watch as my mother and her three brothers struggled with the decision of “What would Daddy want?”. The answer came from my conservative christian uncle who I thought would turn it all into a Terri Shivo case. He said, “I imagined myself laying in Dad’s place and I thought about what advice I would give my children. I could only come to one answer.”. After more complications the children decide to have any lifesaving meds withheld and to let the ultimate judge have the last call. He died at 7:15 am, on July 4th. I have not one single doubt they did the right thing and it has done nothing but polarize my belief that those seeking to “save” Terri were not only stepping in where they didn’t belong but they were fools to do so.”

“I am sorry for your loss.

I applaud the courage and love you family has shown.

Peace to all of you.”

“Thank you very much. It means a lot to me. I am very raw still from the whole ordeal. I told my family, "We should get together and have a huge family reunion where we all sit down and draw up a living will.". I never want to put my family through the "WTF?", stage.”

“My deepest sympathies. Nigal. That's some heavy baggage to be burdened with. But, you really are a righteous guy. I admire your realism and the strength of your convictions. That took a lot of self-control on the part of all of you, being able to reason that out while under such duress. May you and your family find solace, and may your grandfather rest in peace...”

“Nigal you and your family are in my thoughts. nobody wants to livelike a vegtable. You did the right thing. Take care sweety.”

“I have not one single doubt they did the right thing and it has done nothing but polarize my belief that those seeking to “save” Terri were not only stepping in where they didn’t belong but they were fools to do so. - Nigal

That's too bad you've oversimplied this Nigal, because it is more complicated than that.

Terri's "husband" and all her friends did not remember her "wished" until EIGHT years after her fall. Think about that. For eight years they were agonizing what to do, thinking about her every minute of the day, and all of a sudden EIGHT YEARS later (right after he won money) they all remembered a conversation they supposedly had with her. It's all very suspicious.

Those trying to save her weren't necesarily saying that she should be saved, or everyone in her situation should be saved.

There was just too much doubt as to who should be making the decision. That is all.

To call those people fools is quite foolish in itself imo.

The ironic thing is that as I read yours and other responses on here, it's obvious that it's you who are trying to impose your own wishes onto Terri based on your emotions and own desires. It is I and most (not all) of the ones who wanted her to live who were most interested in trying to determine what Terri would have wanted. - Not what we would have wanted.
last edited: 7/09/05 8:25:28 AM”

“crash bang - If you think I wanted her to live because I think he killed her, you haven't read my posts this whole time, and you're the only complaining about how many I wrote. I've stated MANY times on here it wasn't about that. I've stated it's about doubt as to whether or not He should be making the decision about her LIFE. That's it. Reread this thread if you have any doubt, because you obviously read what you wanted to read the first time around.”

“Sarge come on, get real. Do you honestly believe terri would of wanted to be kept "alive" as a brain dead vegtable putting her family and friends into such long lasting termoil? I bet dollars to donuts she would of rather been aloud to die years ago.
last edited: 7/09/05 8:30:34 AM”

“Sarge, this is number one GOD talking
I want you to go out backpacking or hiking!

Thank you”

“Thanks for the kind words guys. It’s been a rough week but it has also been great. I’ve seen some of my cousins from out of state I haven’t seen for 16 years. My cousin who was cycling out of Iraq got to come home two weeks early and won’t have to go back now. We really did celebrate my grand father’s life as much as mourn the loss. Thanks again.”

“"If you think I wanted her to live because I think he killed her"

that doesnt even make sense

and lay off nigal, would you? did he or did he not just say he had been thru a rough time? i swear to god, you are incapable of getting off of your high horse for one damn minute. i think this is one case where we can give him a little more lee-way than usual. let him speak his mind without you writing a book-long response. the man just lost his grandfather, and from the sound of it, it was nearly as traumatic as losing a father. this is a time where we just say "im so sorry for your loss, nigal". can you at least wait a week or so before you go back to talking down to him like the rest of us? fvck. youre a good guy, sarge, but you make me so mad sometimes, too, with your never-ending crusade and running down every single disagreement, even when theyre sidetracks that have nothing to do with the main discussion.

surprise me. respond with something more than a 10-page dissertation on how your words were justified and a point for point analysis of my post. show some goddamn humanity. i know you have it. i know you have more than you show. so show it. peace out, brother”

“i should have said this before i ranted:

my condolences, nigal i know exactly what youre going thru. its still a fresh memory for me
last edited: 7/09/05 10:27:46 AM”

“Condolences, Nigal. It sounds like he led a great life.”

“Nigal, sorry to hear of your loss. It is a hard decision as I have had to make it in the past. I know you will miss him.”

“My condolences, and my respect to you and your family Nigal. It says something about a family when they can come together to make decisions like this.

I still miss my grandfather. He was a minister and an educator. I had Sunday dinner with him ever week when I was at University of Texas. He died just months after I left Austin.”

“"I've stated it's about doubt as to whether or not He should be making the decision about her LIFE.”
Sarge
8:27:34 AM
7/09/05

This is such an odd line to take on this. The courts made the final decision. They heard the case and many appeals. The court rulings demonstrate an exhaustive look at the data, claims and counterclaims. They focused clearly on what was in her interests as best as they could discern them.

BTW: Does anyone (Sarge?) have any evidence that her husband suddenly remembered her wishes after 8 years? It looks to me like he tried desperately to find a way to help her recover for many years - and that this was not inconsistent with his statement of her wishes. It was only when he was convinced rehabilitation was not possible that he looked for a court to decide what was in her interests given the hopelessness of her case.”

“id expect that from a liberal pansy like you, ped

typical”

“cb, your such a right wing nazi phsycho!”

“sos your mother”

“this tread is brain dead.”

“...but will probably be kept functioning for a few more years.”

“Thanks everyone. My grandfather was from that great generation that is quickly disappearing. He picked cotton for a $1 a day in the depression, fought in WWII, worked until the day he died, and always had a smile and a laugh. Luckily I wasn’t put in the position to make any decisions on his DNR orders, but I did let my mother know she was doing the right thing. I think just about every one of us in the family is making plans to do a complete and detailed living will now so no one has to make any decisions in the future.”

“pedxing - You speak as if the judges are gods. It's government. gov - ern - ment

Where did liberals go from hatred of "the man" to "government worship"?

I think it's when they found out they can get a "free" ride from others. (until the government collapses, like it always does when society turns that way)”

“Yeah, you're right, Sarge, we shouldn't have taken the feeding tube out until God said it was okay.

Dingleberry.”

“Sarge - You attacked the husbands partiality, I pointed out that there were very careful reviews by parties who did not have a dog in that fight. You respond by attacking me and stereotyping me. You seem offended at the way I characterize arguments or positions. Please note that I don't argue by attacking or characterizing you.

In response to your ad hominen: I speak as if the Judges are thoughtful human beings called in to decide a case. I looked through the decisions and was impressed that they were thorough and thoughtful. They aren't infallible, it looks like they did their best.

I've testified before judges in psychiatric commitment hearings... some are thoughtful, careful people... some are lazy, incurious and pompous. I saw problems with the way they decided cases, but it worked better than having Clinicians like myself decide on commitments, or having police or the patients themselves decide.”

“My point is that they are not the final answer. Just because they made a ruling, no matter how exhaustive, the result can sometimes should be debated after the verdict. You were speaking as if they ruled, and that should be the final word because they were exhaustive in their proceedings. I disagree completely.”

“

Let's visit Sarge!
last edited: 7/11/05 2:28:46 AM”

“Phaedrus, haven't you been taken by demons yet?

Your blasphemy has sealed your fate!”

“I am sorry for you loss. Your grandfather sounds like he was a real rock.




I am somewhat disconcerted by CrashBang offering me up to you in your time of need though.


Just what is this supposed to mean?:

i think this is one case where we can give him a little more lee-way than usual


1. Nigal ain't getting nuthin from me. recent loss notwithstanding.

2. What do you mean "more . . .than usual"?? Nigal ain't gotten nuttin from me in the past either!


3. Jeezzzz I feel real bad for Nigal and all . . . but I like wimins!!!!”

“Lee, I have never expected any extra leeway. I have no idea what you're talking about concerning crash. He never even made reference to you or your post as far I know. I think he was referring to my #1 fan Sarge.”

“lee-way. get it? its a stretch, but its funny”

“Sarge - You said "“"I've stated it's about doubt as to whether or not He should be making the decision about her LIFE.”
Sarge
8:27:34 AM
7/09/05"

My point was that it was inaccurate to speak if the husband made the final decision, as if an interested party (who's motives were impugned) was alllowed to decide her fate.

Obviously there is no harm in criticizing a Judges decision. It's just important to dispel the oft repeated myth that the the court just turned the choice over to the husband, or that the parents concerns, claims and evidence were not heard and evaluated.

I would add, that I have problems with Politicians interfering and imposing their will on the matter. Judges are fallible, but politicians including ones who are MDs who misdiagnose via videotape are in even less of an opinion to render an objective opinion.”

“http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5008744.stm

Pill 'reverses' vegetative state

A sleeping pill can temporarily revive people in a permanent vegetative state to the point where they can have conversations, a study finds.

...

An improvement was seen within 20 minutes of taking the drug and wore off after four hours, when the patients restored to their permanent vegetative state.

Patient L had been in a vegetative state for three years, showing no response to touch and no reaction to his family.

After he was given Zolpidem, he was able to talk to them, answering simple questions.

Patient G was also able to answer simple questions and catch a basketball.

Patient N had been "constantly screaming", but stopped after being given the drug when he started watching TV and responding to his family.

...

He told the BBC: "For every damaged area of the brain, there is a dormant area, which seems to be a sort of protective mechanism.

"The damaged tissue is dead, there's nothing you can do.

"But it's the dormant areas which 'wake up'."

____________________________
Hope you feel better, ... murderers.”

“here we go again *yawn*”

“Yeah, wouldn't want to waste your time talking about our society murdering people. Sorry to interrupt your day mapleleaf. Go back to your Good Morning America and pot of coffee.”

“Voodoo”

“*yawn the old sarge is back* to bad I liked the new one”

“Current update---still dead”