Bon Saturnalia

“Saturnalicius princeps:

Welcome! Celebrate the Solstice the old fashioned way.

Jump for Joy, embrace Hope, and have Faith!

Eat, drink, and make Mary!”

“Make Mary? But what if I want to name her Sue?”

“Mary can make me make her!

AND DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!”

“Sorry. Was feeling particularly beligerent for a minute.”

“Why would I celebrate the Solstice? It has no significance to me.”

“Light the Yule log and gather round the sacred evergreen, my pagan, Mother Nature-loving friends. We actually do have a Solstice party to go to tonight. More mead for all!!!”

“Merry meet, fellow paegans...

Mayhap we all have a fun filled festive season, shared with our loved ones, lighting our one white candle, remembering those in our lives that can't be present to partake in the festivities.

Blessed Be!”

“Yeah! Breasted be!”

“LOL!
Joy, Hope, Faith and Mary? Let's not get too greedy.
When is the Saturnalia anyway?
If I understand it right, it is linked as much to April Fools and New Year as Christmas?

Gee Nigal
Are you trying to say that
1) Chanukah isn't, in part, a solstice celebration?
2) That the changing seasons, the turning point in the shortening of the days, and the re-warming of this hemisphere have no significance to you?”

“Ped, the timing of Chanukah does coincide with the darkest days of winter for a reason…


"Celebrated on the 25th day of the Jewish month of Kislev, during the darkest days of the year, the candle-lighting holiday is a warm ritual to banish the winter blahs. When Jews light the eight candles of the menorah on the eight nights of Chanukah, they recite a prayer extolling God who "performed miracles for our ancestors in days of old."

The heart of Chanukah though is the victory of the Maccabees over the pagan rulers of the day, the reclaiming of the Temple and the Jew’s refusal to assimilate the pagan practices into Judaism. For this very reason the practices of the pagan religions has no significance to me. The only significance of this time of year for me is the survival of Judaism and it’s refusal to assimilate. One of the most disheartening things I see this time of year is a menorah burning in someone’s front window and then a Christmas tree in the background. The menorah says, “We will NOT practice what the pagans do.”, but the tree says, “Yes we will.”.

As for the lengthening of days from here forward, this has no significance to me as spring is still a looong ways off for me.

I always enjoy hearing your views on stuff like this because you are a very intellegent person with an open mind. Just so ya know.”

“Silly Christian-jew-pagans.

I think they're just trying to be individuals... Like everyone else.”

“Nigal: Years ago, when my boys were very little and I was married to an Israeli (truth be told she moved to the US as a kid) who was the daughter of active Zionists, we had our kids in a Jewish daycare.

They had a big party for Chanukah and retold the story of the Maccabbees and the oil lamp. As the teacher retold the story, she had the kids (all in costume) fill in key phrases of the story. Telling the story of Juddah Maccabbee's approach to the temple she said "And Juddah Maccabbee climbed up the ______" and all the kids shouted "Wall".... and then a while later she saided "And Juddah Maccabbee went down the____" and one kid shouted "Chimney!" Parents looked nervous and strained to see which kid had said chimney. A moment later it was obvious who had, and two parents blushed deeply - the rest of the parents seemed to sigh with relief and nervous laughter filled the room.

I think most of the parents gave their kids Christmas stuff as well, and pretended to be devout.

Actually, making a big deal out of Chanukah (and doing major present giving) is really a bow to Christmas anyway. Traditionally it hasn't been a major Jewish holiday (and isn't in Israel).”

“Today is the sixth day of the Saturnalia.
December 22 marks the winter solstice, "the darkest evening of the year" as the poet Robert Frost put it. It was known on Old English calendars as Geol, from which we get the English word "Yule". In Roman times, it took place toward the end of the holiday festival of Saturnalia and was known as the



Divalia
Higgledy-Piggledy
Roman Divalia,
True winter solstice in
Terms of the sun,
Falls in the festival
Saturnalicius
Day number six in a
Surfeit of fun.”

“SATURNA´LIA, the festival of Saturnus, to whom the inhabitants of Latium attributed the introduction of agriculture and the arts of civilized life. Falling towards the end of December, at the season when the agricultural labours of the year were fully completed, it was celebrated in ancient times by the rustic population as a sort of joyous harvest-home, and in every age was viewed by all classes of the community as a period of absolute relaxation and unrestrained merriment. During its continuance no public business could be transacted, the law courts were closed, the schools kept holiday, to commence a war was impious, to punish a malefactor involved pollution. Special indulgences were granted to the slaves of each domestic establishment; they were relieved from all ordinary toils, were permitted to wear the pileus the badge of freedom, were granted full freedom of speech, partook of a banquet attired in the clothes of their masters, and were waited upon by them at table.”

“RIng out these Solstice Bells.

Ian ANderson.”

“The whole problem of evil pagan snowmmen has been greatly underestimated. Chili36 - thanks for bringing it to our attention.
you want evidence?

TT'ers that aren't as up on the pagan snowman problem might want evidence... OK I'll show them evidence, documentary footage of vicious pagan snowmen seeking out victims for their pagan sacrificial rites!”

“crud I guess I can't put the image here - for those willing to confront the ugly reality, here is a link:

"supressed evidence"”

““I think most of the parents gave their kids Christmas stuff as well, and pretended to be devout.”

While I think that the giving of Chanukah gifts has grown simply out of the desire to placate Jewish kids around Christmas time to then give them Christmas gifts would not make them very devout at all. It is the refusal to go along with pagan customs that is one of the biggest meanings of Chanukah. It’s sad when people end up doing this for no other reason than simple ignorance.

“Actually, making a big deal out of Chanukah (and doing major present giving) is really a bow to Christmas anyway. Traditionally it hasn't been a major Jewish holiday (and isn't in Israel)."

True, it one of the more minor days on the Jewish calendar. It isn’t even a biblical holiday as it has it’s roots in rabbinical Talmud. Sadly it has become very Americanized here for many of the same reasons that Christmas has become a widely commercial holiday.”

“Saturnalicius princeps:

Welcome! Celebrate the Solstice the old fashioned way.

Jump for Joy, embrace Hope, and have Faith!

Eat, drink, and make Mary!”

“The original Roman calendar (year of Romulus) was a ten-month year based on agriculture. Until 153 BC, March was the first month of the year, and the forms septem-, octo-, novem-, and decem- made a lot more sense in naming the months. Additional changes came with the calendar reform of Julius Caesar in 45 BC.


First of December
Higgledy-Piggledy
Mensis December was
Last in a year having
Ten months in all;
Calendars now, though, are
Dodecamensural,
Leaving that prefix for
"Ten" in a stall.”

“Joy, Hope, Faith, and Mary ran off!”

“can you say "tilt"”

“They ran off with Tilt? Why that no-good son of a ....”

“i was going to guess PedXing!”

“Four women, ... yeah, they could have run off with different guys.”

“nooooooo!!”

“"Many early festivals permitted foolery and trickery aimed at those in power, probably as a sort of social safety valve to allow those at the bottom of rigid social hierarchies to vent their pent up frustrations. Bosses, teachers, and people who put on airs remain favourite targets for April Fool’s pranksters to this day. The Saturnalia, a Roman holiday observed at the end of December, included a number of themes of this sort. In addition to dancing, carousing, and the exchange of gifts, slaves were allowed to pretend that they ruled their masters and a mock king, the Saturnalicius princeps, reigned for the day. By the fourth century CE, many of the traditions of the Saturnalia had transformed into observances associated with Christmas. Some of its leftover rituals may well have melded into forerunners of April Fool’s day. Ethnologists think this transformation may also have been cross-fertilized by popular Northern European festivals whose customs made sport of the hierarchy of the Druids."”

“A Saturnalian Triolet
It's Saturnalia in Rome.
These are the best of days for me.
Work is over and harvest home;
It's Saturnalia in Rome.
The time has passed for tilling loam,
So let's relax and be carefree.
It's Saturnalia in Rome ...
These are the best of days for me!”

“Dancing, Drinking and Merrymaking!

WOO HOOO!

sounds like our Ithaca trip only in a different season!”

“LOL! Gimme dat real old time religion.
last edited: 12/06/04 9:13:31 AM”

“The Saturnalia has begun. Eat, drink and make merry with whomever you choose!

Rise up and dance!

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Thread/452274”

“Io Io Io!

Salacious saturnalia to all, and to all a delight!”

“Only ten more days!

Io Io!

I write here of the cruelty of existence
else the time will pass in vain.
It is the hour when we awaken in the face of death.

Life is short and soon will end--
death comes faster than you'd believe.
It destroys all, and is without mercy.

WITH DEATH WE DANCE
LET US NOT TRESPASS ANYMORE!


If you don't become as innocent as a child
and change your life joyfully
you will not be admitted into the Kingdom of God.

When the trumpet sounds doomsday has come.
The judge appears and call
the chosen to his Kingdom, the damned to Hell.

WITH DEATH WE DANCE
LET US NOT TRESPASS ANYMORE”

“Behold! the Holy Idiot, lost within
A private world. He'll have the chance to win
New freedom from confining rules. Rejoice
The madness! For it brings another choice.
Now let the Saturnalia begin!”

“Ped's bored again. LOL!”

“C'mon Nigh Gel. Get with the spirit! Get your togas out and ready for a holy toga party! You can chose yourself a Sarturnalia name and join the fun.

Only the truly deserving (which is almost anyone) can be alloted the role of the Saturnalicus princeps.
last edited: 12/07/05 5:51:22 PM”

“That was a fine Saturnalia poem Backslacker. A bon Saturnalia to you.”

“wth?”

“Since you asked (The "h" I'm sure is for Heaven.)

Saturnalia in Rome is always a season of good cheer, topsy-turveydom (one of its features was that the slave became the master for a day, a tradition that was passed down in later Christmas traditions in such features as the Lord of Misrule), lots of Falernian, the gifts of small items including candles, and a complete lack of seriousity. Saturn, after all, was the Lord of Mirth and joviality, as well as the god of sowing.

Catullus called the Saturnalia "the best of days" (Catullus 14.15) for its deep roots in the celebration of the winter solstice and the rebirth of light and mirth in the heart of winter. The festival dates varied through the course of Roman history, but began as the feast day of Saturn (December 17) and his wife, Ops (December 19), both ancient Roman fertility deities. Saturn was the god of Agriculture (merging later with the Greek god Cronos) while Ops was the goddess of plenty and mother earth. During the Empire the ever-popular festival was extended to seven days, from December 17 through December 23

for more:

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/70005
http://members.aol.com/barbtail/Saturnalia1.html
last edited: 12/07/05 6:04:37 PM”

“say what?”

“Well, it boils down to eat, drink and be merry. Have fun.”

“carlette, the next time someone says,"jesus is the reason for the season!"

tell them, "no it's not idiot, saturn is."

FACTOID:
we celebrate christmas on dec 25 cause of saturnalia, not cause of jesus. jesus was born in the spring, not in december.
saturn was a greek/roman god. saturnalia was the roman's version of april fools day and mardi gras rolled into one.”

“It is now the second day of the Saturnalia, is everyone having fun!?”

“What men or gods are these? What maidens loath?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
- Keats, "Ode to a Grecian Urn"”

“When you greet someone on the street, don't use the bland "Happy Holidays" say "Bon Saturnalia" or "Io Saturnalia."

Some celbrate the birth of the deity who was born of a virgin on December 25th, remained celibate, and mark this worship with baptisms, the partaking of bread marked with a cross and treating wine as sacrificial blood, and hold Sundays sacred. I do not argue that this deity, Mithras, is without merit nor do I despise the Christ worship which borrows so heavily from the cult of Mithras and our beloved Saturnalia. Saturn is not consumed by morbid jealousy - his celebration is open to all, even those who follow other Gods.”

“Io! Io! What wild ecstacy indeed!”

“Bon Saturnalia y'all....

yeah I can see the rednecks in my part of the country now..LMAO”