Proof that guns are EVIL

“Locks are required in Alabama...and in my home they are USED. (Damn key ring is gettin HEAAAAAVY!)”

“I agree with Birch and No Probl.


Query: Should folks with mental problems be allowed to have convenient access to handguns (any guns?).


A person who has mental illness cannot gain access to live saving medication without prescription and a doctors authority. The medication of course has the potential to harm or kill if misused or administered incorrectly.

Yet a mentally ill person can have relatively unrestricted access to a handgun.


In spite of my arguments for a complete ban on handguns, I am not naive enough to believe that a) it would ever happen or b) that it would be effective.


What I can't understand. Simply fail to understand. Is why the NRA and its members argue so strenously (cold dead fingers etc) against reasonable restrictions on the purchase and sale of handguns. They argue that any restriction is, per se, UNreasonable, and only grudgingly give ground on registration and waiting periods.


I fail to understand the chortling in this crowd about the failure of the assualt weapons ban, how to get around it, how ineffective it was, how the NRA lobbied and bastardized it into a piece of law that was doomed to fail . . .I just don't get it.

Birch you said:

He should never have been allowed to own possess or use a weapon due his mental issues.

I take it that you, at least, among gun owners on this forum are in favor of more restrictive gun ownership regulations.

As I have said before . . .the U.S. is something less than a civilized society. In this regard, among others, it is a second tier nation.
last edited: 4/19/07 1:30:30 PM”

“Punishing law abiding citizens for the acts of criminals is simp-ly wrong. - birch

Birch called Y2 a simp! While astute, that's not very christian.”

“and Mutt.

You have at times run on about concealed weapons laws, people's "right" to carry etc.


I assume (and you can tell me I am wrong) that your philosphy is that a well armed society would be safer.

I assume that you are relying on something akin to the "MAD", cold war philosophy. that is, mutually assured destruction.

And, I suppose, you can point to the collapse of the USSR and our winning the cold war as proof that the arms race did work. There were no nuclear wars and we won.

Although this arms race worked between two nationstates . .presumably each acting in its own rationale best interest, do you think it translates to 300 million Americans?

Would each individual be capable of making the same rationale decisions. On a daily basis how many Bay of Pigs, or shoe pounding incidents would we have? Not writ large on the nuclear scale, but small . . .on the highways in road rage incidents for instance.

It is unfathomable that someone could attempt a rationale justification for the arming of american society.


There are over 30,000 gun death in the US each year.

At the very least, LEAST, the further proliferation of handguns would mean more accidental gun deaths. It would almost certainly escalate beyond that to significant increases in intentional gun deaths.

What, exactly are you espousing? Every citizen armed. An old west sort of shoot out scenario??”

“"There are over 30,000 gun death in the US each year."

How many automobile deaths each year. Should we outlaw Toyota's too?”

“Lee, you hyperbolize the issue out of reality. Really I'm mostly concerned about myself and my family, rather than overarching implications of gun ownership, its effect on crime, etc. I simply want to have the option of using deadly force in the protection of my daughter, my wife, and myself (in that order). I really don't have too much concern that more gun ownership may raise accidental death and such - it's up to the individual to be safe and responsible. Life is filled with ways to die. That said, I'd rather have personal freedom over my own destiny than have imposed government sponsored security at the cost of freedom.
last edited: 4/19/07 2:07:29 PM”

“No prob --
\

Boy . . .you could feed me straightlines all day.



Tell you what. You are RIGHT. Cars are deadly as well. There is a SLIGHT difference in that cars are manufactured as machines of transport (that is their intended use) and guns . .well . .guns are machine of death (that is their intended use).

But hey . .. i am agreeing with you, so let's no quibble over details.


So, tell you what. Let's have the same federal and state restrictions on the use and ownership of guns as we do on cars.

YOU should agree to that? What could be wrong with it? YOU drew the comparision.

Learners permit
Education classes.

Test.

Licsence.

Insurance.

Inspections.

Loss of liscense for certain infractions.

Registration of every gun.

Property tax



Sure, No Probl. I have no problem with any of that.

Great idea!
last edited: 4/19/07 2:26:04 PM”

“More freedom! More freedom!”

“You are right (to an extent). I wouldn't describe it as hyperbole . ..I would say that I am taking your arguments to their logical conclusions.

No. We will never eradicate guns from the street nor the gun culture from the US.

Yes. The "gun culture" in the US is part of our national identity as free, independent pioneering folk. For better or worse. Whether or not we actually need them to "tame the west".


What I fail to understand it the line in the sand that the NRA draws on reasonable restriction to ownership and registration issues.

And frankly, I fail to understand how any non-criminal, civilized, law abiding citizen (who is not under immediate threat) cannot support such measures.

I can understand criminals not supporting them . .. but the average joe??

I fail to understand the glorification and virtually unrestricted proliferation of handguns.

I fail to understand how we can pretend to be suprised, shocked or dismayed about the Virginia Tech murders. Its a numbers game. Its just going to keep happening.”

“Here's a question and I admit, I am not well-rehearsed in current gun safety requirements (requests?).

Anyway, let's say you do the things Birch is talking about: trigger lock, ammo and gun locked up (is this supposed to be separately). Now, if this is the case and the whole value of having a handgun is to dissuade a would-be intruder from doing any harm to you and yours, with all of these precautions in place, could you get your gun out in time for protection?

Secnario: breaking glass, feet stomping down the hall, the shiznit is going down, how quickly can you get your gun out if all of these safety precaustion are being used?”

“I see two issues:

1. Gun ownership. Who can own guns and who can't. What liscensing, education, permitting, registration and insurance requirements should there be.


2. Gun safety. Maybe this speaks to upfront education requirements, and perhaps continuing ed credits.”

“Rosey - you shouldn't be relying only on a gun to protect your house anyway. Put locks on your windows for a start. No criminal likes to climb through a window of broken glass - at the very least it'll provide you with a short while to arm yourself.
Also if you're that worried about protecting your family, an alarm system might be a better investment or even a good additional investment as really, what parent wants a gunfight going on inside their home.
While I'm not sure that having a gun makes you mucxh safer in the house, Ican accept the fact that homeowners might have guns will deter a few people from trying to break-in in the first place.”

“Well, that's my point. I mean, do you put one of those "Protected by Smith & Wesson" signs out front or something? Or maybe you just broadcast a voice message from a motion detector that informs would be home invaders (and let me tell you, they just kick the freakin' door in usually), that you are armed and they better be ready for the OK-Corral.

It seems that the reason for owning a handgun, unless you're one of those "gotta protect myself from the evil govt." types (newsflash: They have F-18s and tanks...), would be to have quick access to it so you could blow away the SOB. If there are a bunch of safety precautions that are supposed to be used to cut down on accidental fatalities, falling into the hands of criminals, kids, etc. and that limits your ability to quickly access the firearm, what good does it do for home protection?”

“Blaming violence on guns is like blaming DUI on cars.

Why is it that no one ever wants to restrict any of our amendments except the 2nd? The right(not privilege) to keep and bear arms is the right that protects all other rights.

The last time someone started shooting up a college in Va., guess what stopped him?

A law abiding student with a handgun.”

“If students were allowed to carry, how many more would die during the course of a year?

BTW, I know George looked into Vladimir's heart and all that crap, but the current situation in Russia has more in commom with a Chapter 11 reorganization than "we won". The combination of that and their decrepit command & control of ICBMs doesn't inspire anyone's confidence ---”

“Maybe the "we won" part comes in because we had the weapons to make them not do anything until they eventually went chapter 11.”

“take it that you, at least, among gun owners on this forum are in favor of more restrictive gun ownership regulations.

Lee, I geuss I didnt articulate my point well. I dont think ANY new laws for or against gun ownership should come from this tragedy. We have plenty of gun laws that ought to be enforced before adding more.”

“Rosey , my handgun is my last option. I have two large dogs, a well lit front and rear entry, very limited shrubbery, none big enough to hide an intruder.My house is by design going to be difficult to gain entry upon. My house is one of the least desirable on my block by creating an univiting environment, two houses (one across and one next door) have been robbed. Mine will not be the third.

One can purchase a bolt down handgun safe that can hold one loaded handgun and be opened by keypad in about 3 seconds given the code owner access to the weapon. My families safety is my responsibility. If another cares not to own a weapon, please dont. BUT afford me my constitutional right (that has played out in courts numerous times to side with firearm owners) to ownership and possesion and God forbid use in defense.
last edited: 4/19/07 5:07:06 PM”

“Hey, I'm not picking a fight here, I'm just stating the obvious. If there are laws about how you are supposed to keep your gun locked up, how long does it take you to get your gun cocked and ready (heh).

Anyway, you stated three seconds. I guess that's without the trigger lock though?

My point being, I hear the "defend my castle" mantra on a regular basis. I also hear the "I'm a responsible gun owner and we take safety precautions, etc." Just investigating a possible hang up on that end. Not looking to debate constitutional rights at the moment.”

“The murders at Virginia Tech weren't the only shooting that have happened in Virginia in the recent past. In January of 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law, three people were murdered. Do you know who stopped the murderer? It wasn't the police. Hell they don't want anything to do with armed criminals. Armed criminals are dangerous. The police are more interested in styling in the Kelvar vests and pointing their HK5s at unarmed people.

Armed students caught the guy. They went out to their cars, got their guns, and pointed them at the perp. He surrendered.

Here a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting


Virginia law allows CCWs by law abiding citizens but the powers at VT had recently decided that they didn't want any weapons on campus. Sounds logical until you realize that Mr Cho had his gun on campus whether it was legal or not. The law didn't mean anything to him. If one sane person in those classrooms had been carrying a concealed weapon then maybe he or she could have stopped Cho. But honest people obey the rules. Criminals or the criminally insane don't. Therein is the fallacy of gun control. If every law abiding citizen were to turn in his guns the criminals wouldn't. Crime rates would rise not fall. If you ask a burglar why he won't break into a occupied house he'll tell you he's afraid that the homeowner is armed. If he knows the homeowner isn't what's to stop him?
last edited: 4/19/07 5:36:41 PM”

“sorry if I came across as argumentative rosy, that wasnt my intent. No trigger lock in a locked safe fro me”

“What do people think about "smart" guns that read fingerprints in order to fire?”

“statement:

It seems that the reason for owning a handgun, unless you're one of those "gotta protect myself from the evil govt." types (newsflash: They have F-18s and tanks...),

I'm one of those "types". And if you'll turn on your television tonight you can watch the lightly armed Iraqis give the United States armed forces a devil of a time. And correct if I'm wrong but the last time I watched the news, the US military had all the tanks, artillery, armored helicopters, F-18s, B-52s, and other high tech gizmos a defense contractor could sell it.

The men who really run this country very much fear the lightly armed citizens of this country. It's not the firepower. It's the sheer numbers.”

“"It wasn't the police. Hell they don't want anything to do with armed criminals. Armed criminals are dangerous. The police are more interested in styling in the Kelvar vests and pointing their HK5s at unarmed people."


Well, I agree with the thrust of your post, but no offense, the above statement is bull#&%!$.
As you'll notice, I mentioned the shooting at Grundy, Va. in my first post, so far be it from me to begrudge private citizens protecting themselves (I encourage it). As a matter of fact, I guarantee my support of private ownership of firearms is as great as that of anyone you'll meet. But to try to make blanket derogatory statements about the police shows a willingness to overlook all the times police run towards gunfire while everyone else is running away from it. You can't expect police to be everywhere at once. That's part of the reason that states like Kentucky have sound laws in place about the right of self-defense. Furthermore, if a police officer shows up at the chaos of a school shooting not knowing who's good and who's bad, he'd be an idiot not to point his gun at everyone he encounters until he can establish they are not a threat.

That's getting off topic though. The point of the thread is the ridiculous fallacy of gun control=less crime, not your incorrect notions about police work.

I'm on your side when it comes to the unintelligent arguments put forth by those who would take away our most important Constitutional right.


And Tilt old pal, think about it--if you're willing to kill someone, are you going to let a campus restriction on firearms keep you from doing that? You think a person who is willing to kill someone is not willing to break a school rule to do it?”

““What do people think about "smart" guns that read fingerprints in order to fire?”

Not a big fan. What happens if I am doing yard work or fixing something and I mess up my finger, thus altering my prints?”

“I too dont like the "smart" weapons. Its my property, I have the right to decide who uses it within legal bounds, not the government or a corporation. No different then my car or chainsaw.”

“That reminds me, can I borrow your chainsaw Homeslice?”

““The point of the thread is the ridiculous fallacy of gun control=less crime, …”



I certainly agree with that one because it’s indisputable.




I also must say that I have loved reading some very thoughtful posts made on different sides of the issue. There have been some good questions raised and, with some exceptions, I don’t get the feeling that I’m reading a lot of knee-jerk emotion coming from the lefties here. It gives me pause to be grateful.

And I don’t see too many people parroting the “gunman” descriptions that are an overwhelming staple of the media’s continuing propaganda campaign.

In a previous thread Y2 insisted that he had read the term “knifeman” used in connection with stabbing. I wouldn’t want to call Y2 a liar, it’s just that I’ve never seen it used myself.

I did some research on the internet:

I found 13 articles about stabbings and in NOT ONE do they mention a “knifeman.” I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but the overwhelming majority of stories do not describe a criminal or murderer using a knife that way.

I found a number of articles about strangling. The overwhelming majority of these stories describe a suspect, or a criminal, or a murderer.

The news is filled with stories of bombings. The overwhelming majority of these stories describe a suspect, or a criminal, a murderer, insurgent, or terrorist. Very few “bomber” descriptions are used.


However, when a gun is used in the commission of a crime, the overwhelming number of descriptions used for these criminals is “gunman.” The term gunman is pounded into the public consciousness lest we forget that a crime was committed by a criminal with a gun.

This first article alone uses the term “gunman” so many times I wonder how the writer could keep a straight face while describing this tragedy:

One classroom was scene of horrific carnage


Complaints About Virginia Gunman Were Filed in 2005


Inside Room 207, Students Panicked at Rampage and Then Held Off Gunman’s Return


Gunman Showed Hints of Anger and Isolation


http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/APA/704180524
Va. Gunman Sent Videos and Photos to NBC


I’m grateful that I haven’t seen many parrots giving in to that description here. The idea that there isn’t a propaganda agenda going on is purely ludicrous.


But from what I’ve seen here, I have hope for a reasoned debate on the issue.
last edited: 4/20/07 6:38:58 AM”

“"...you say 'goodbye' and I say 'hello'...."”

“I am he as you are he as you are me
and we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun
see how they fly
I'm crying
Sitting on a cornflake
Waiting for the van to come
Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday
Man you've been a naughty boy
you let your face grow long

I am the eggman
they are the eggmen
I am the walrus
Goo goo g' joob”

“Do you know who stopped the murderer? It wasn't the police. Hell they don't want anything to do with armed criminals. - solitaryhiker

It's a good point. The anti-gun crowd should be aware that the police have no legal duty to protect individuals. Here's a NYTimes article on it. There's numerous websites dedicated to this issue. The courts have clearly said the police owe you no protection.

The point is, you and you alone are responsible for your personal safety.
last edited: 4/20/07 7:36:22 AM”

“...or does it?...

'Only in America'? Gunning Down a Claim


In response to the horrible mass shooting at Virginia Tech on Monday, overseas leaders as well as many Americans have condemned the "gun culture" of the United States. Perhaps these overseas leaders and American citizens would be less hard on our country if we discuss what has been happening in other countries.


Major news outlets reported on April 18 about the shooting deaths of at least 19 gang members in Rio de Janeiro by rival gangs and police. These shootouts occurred despite Brazil's strict gun control laws.


Also in Wednesday's newspapers are reports about Tuesday's shooting death of the mayor of Nagasaki, Japan. Japan has some of the strictest anti-gun laws in the industrialized world.


In Scotland authorities are enacting knife control policies because violent crime has continued to climb (with knives as a weapon of choice) in the wake of the nation's gun bans. Should Americans speak contemptuously of Scotland's "blade and booze" culture?


Last November in Emsdetten, Germany, a teenager shot and wounded more than a dozen persons before killing himself. In 2002 in a school in Erfurt, Germany, a gunman killed 17 people and himself.


Five years ago I did research for an article on mass shootings. Here are a few of the headlines I came across:


"8 slain at council meeting"


"Teen wounds 5 in tech school"


"Suspected gang shooting leaves 4 dead, 2 injured"


"Man kills ex-bosses, principal, himself"


"Gunman kills self, 7 others"


The incidents these headlines describe occurred in France, the Netherlands, Japan, Germany and Italy, respectively. In the five years since that research, crime rates have continued to climb in many other countries with far stricter gun control laws than those in the United States.


In 1996 in Port Arthur, Australia, a crazed man shot and killed more than 30 people. After learning of the mass shooting at Virginia Tech, Australian Prime Minister John Howard told reporters this about his nation's response to the Port Arthur horror: "We took action to limit the availability of guns and we showed a national resolve that the gun culture that is such a negative in the United States would never become a negative in our country."


Prime Minister Howard neglected to say anything about the "culture" in Australia that prompted a man to commit a mass shooting. He also neglected to mention Australian government figures that show five years after the Port Arthur-inspired gun crackdowns, homicides had climbed 3.2 percent, assaults had gone up 8.6 percent, and, astoundingly, armed robberies had soared 45 percent. Crime rates remain high in Australia despite the confiscation of hundreds of thousands of firearms, and gun bans.


On September 28, 2001, in peaceful Switzerland, a man shot and killed 14 people, including 11 members of a local canton council.


In the 2002 presidential election in France, many political observers cited soaring crime as the Number 1 issue. Nationwide strikes by thousands of France's police officers a few months before the election heightened the issue. The strikes came in response to what police said are growing dangers from gun-wielding criminals. They had strong evidence to cite, including the recent shooting deaths of two police officers during an armed robbery in a Paris suburb.


I've heard people say "only in America" in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings. Clearly, though, it's not only in America. Terrible incidents like these have occurred and are occurring in countries across the world, including countries that severely restrict or ban the private ownership of firearms, and countries with a reputation of peace and harmony.


Steve Stanek is a freelance writer and editor in McHenry, Ill., and research fellow at The Heartland Institute in Chicago.”

“In a previous thread Y2 insisted that he had read the term “knifeman” used in connection with stabbing. I wouldn’t want to call Y2 a liar, it’s just that I’ve never seen it used myself.

I did some research on the internet:

I found 13 articles about stabbings and in NOT ONE do they mention a “knifeman.” I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but the overwhelming majority of stories do not describe a criminal or murderer using a knife that way.
arclite
6:31:46 AM
4/20/07

For a man of such intellectual means I wouldn't have thought googling 'knifeman' would have been beyond you. Admittedly they are mostly from the more Anglo nations such as UK, Australia and so on.

Results 1 - 10 of about 91,700


And all this bs about it happening elsewhere. Nowhere is saying there aren't crazy people everywhere and occasionally they get hold of guns. It's just the case of the sheer number and violence of these incidents that is shocking with America.

I'm not here to abuse America, it is a wonderful country, but surely the fact that people are dying for no reason in schools, colleges and workplaces means there should be at least some self-reflection on what is wrong.”

“I wish you folks would get a less hazardous hobby.”

“So how many people would have died at VT had the killer used a knife?

How about if he only had two standard pistols?

Stanek in Super Troll's and paste attacks a few straw men. He also points to trends in other countries without broader context. For example he says "Crime rates remain high in Australia despite the confiscation of hundreds of thousands of firearms, and gun bans" he doesn't bother to mention that the US murder rate is nearly three times the Australian Murder rate and the murder with firearms rate is almost 10 times higher in the US than in Australia.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita”

“Less hazardous hobby, like say,'stock trading'!!! I do keep a loaded hand gun near my keyboard.”

“I love this country. It has its faults, but the world would definitely be a worse place if almost any other country had the power we did.

This is one reason I want this country strong. But we have serious problems and there are amazing problems. Our murder and crime rates are incredibly high for a prosperous country. We have more people in prison than any other country in the world. That includes China with its brutal system and a population many times ours. We also have more the highest per capita rate of incarceration in the world. But our crime rates, including murder, are stunningly high. Obviously gun control and changing attitudes about guns as equalizers and problem solvers in dealing with people won't solve this. Personally, I think control (not a ban) is a step in the right direction.”

“Prosperous country? Perhaps so, but who's got the cash?”

“Well nimble, that is a crucial question.”

“[pedXing]The US is filled with criminals and murderous gun crime! Therefore, I support more restrictions against lawful owners.[/pedXing]

Hmmm...”

“Yo, Mutt, Roseymonster did ask a very pertinent question about that very thing. I think he asked it twice.

I don’t have any unauthorized users at my house. I’ve got a friend who uses my house during the day as a homecare nurse taking care of an autistic man. My pistols are out of his reach and she has access. She’s an ex-homicide detective lieutenant. I’ve shot with her and she’s well qualified so she’s authorized to protect herself and her patient with my weapons.

I think if I had kids living with me I’d purchase a quick release safe and keep it by the bed. I wouldn’t want to be trying to remove a trigger lock in the middle of the night with someone in my house.

Trigger lock control laws remind me of what “partial birth abortion” does to Roe v. Wade. Some people just want to chip away at our liberties.

Isn’t it amazing how some people favor government controls for one but not the other? No wonder people like that get upset when their folks aren’t in control. Mutt, I think you and I have been very consistent on this issue.




Y2 you certainly prove this bit of wisdom:

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

John Kenneth Galbraith


Knifeman does indeed bring up many hits. They are for stores that sell knives, books, blogger names, product names, and a host of unrelated issues. As I stated, I am sure that the description has been used. The contrast between “gunman” and “knifeman” is so obvious that I believe even you are capable of grasping the concept although it may take years of careful study on your part.

Are you trying to recreate Monty Python? It isn’t working.

Here are 13 articles about stabbings (one even comes from jolly ol’ England). You’ll notice that no one, NOT A SINGLE ONE uses the description “knifeman.”


Susan Polk, defiant at sentencing, gets maximum term for fatally stabbing her husband
http://www.courttv.com/trials/polk/022307_sentencing_ctv.html

Youths sought over fatal stabbing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6463609.stm

Teen Pleads Guilty to Stabbing Mom 111 Times
http://crime.about.com/b/a/243242.htm

2 arrested in SJ stabbing death
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/12/BAGI2OJQOB4.DTL

Mall stabbing is gang related
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6077517

Priest Convicted in 1980 Stabbing of Nun
http://crime.about.com/b/a/256931.htm

Parents Held Responsible for Son Stabbing Girl
http://crime.about.com/b/a/196684.htm

Student to plead guilty in stabbing of professor
http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/04/09/professor.stabbed.ap/index.html?eref=rss_education

Police: Fla. teen died in school bus stabbing over girl
http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/1020/stabbing_ap.html

Suspect Arrested for Stabbing Man While Applying for Job
http://abc40.com/Global/story.asp?S=5881819

Springs woman arrested in stabbing
http://www.gazette.com/onset?id=20979&template=article.html

Student sentenced in teacher's stabbing
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/17/student_sentenced_in_teachers_stabbing/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

Aggravated Domestic Assault
http://www.siouxfalls.org/News.aspx


Then you’ve of course noticed that the vast majority of recent stories use the headline “gunman.” Just as they did the last time I brought this issue up and you tried to be clever. Want to see how many hits on the web you get with ”gunman”? I’ll let you in on a secret: many, many, many more of those hits refer to newspaper articles than the “knifeman” description.

In the first article of my last post, the writer uses these descriptors the number of times listed:

He- 2
Gunman- 8
Cho Seung-Hui- 1
Cho- 4
Korean student- 1



No wonder the British Empire crumbled if it’s so full of dense people who don’t understand these obvious differences. Your ability to self-examine doesn’t appear to exist.

There are many things that are wrong in this world. You may want to check out the world figures for homicide rates, suicide rates, and violent crime before you knee-jerk your way into more of your erroneous problem solving techniques.

Complex issues deserve better than knee-jerk reactions. You people ruined England’s economy that way.
last edited: 4/20/07 4:05:06 PM”

“you didn't look far down the list did you arclite, the first few are for knife stores, then the news stories start.

Troops kill Palestinian knifeman
‘Delirious’ knifeman terrified 85-year-old
Knifeman held in state hospital
Knife-man threatens shop assistant and steals cash
Abigail bid to ID knifeman's car
Teen who saved boyfriend from a knifeman
Help police nail this terror raid knifeman
Knifeman Attacks Three People at London Bus Stop
Knifeman kills eight in Chinese school dormitory
Knifeman robs liquor store
Did knifeman lay in wait for 10 hours?

Do I need to find more for you arcy?

I'd say the greater use of this in other countries probably reflects the fact that there are far fewer guns in circulation there.

Perhaps these reporters are carrying some sort of anti-knife message to their readers?”

“Bowers v. Devito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let the people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order.); (No duty to protect) = Rule 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss;Cf. Reciprocial obligations;”

“Let's see here. The total population of America is 272,639,608.

According to the NIMH, 26% of all adults (18- and above) have a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.

So 26% of America has a mental disorder. That's 70,886,298 people.

According to the BATF there are some 200 million guns in America. That's nearly 3 guns per mentally disordered person.

Yet we had 11,624 homicides in 2004 (latest year data is available).

Relatively speaking I'd say we have a very safe country.”

“........then there's Nigal..............”

“Wow check it out Britain, ya know, the progressive, non violent, gun banning, safe as hell now Brits have a new type of outfit to send their children off to school in. The new stab proof school jumper!

"By cracky! Thank gawd for gun control! We're safe now!"”

““........then there's Nigal..............”

Proud member of the 26% Club. LOL!”

“? I thought you were a 1%er?”

“It's funny that although we have more gun laws now than we did in the mid 20th century, our crime rates have not gone down in relation to all the gun laws.


We didn't ban private ownership of aircraft after September 11, 2001.”