Trickle Down Economics

“Yearly cost to US taxpayers for the following:
* Aide to Isreal - $2,808,156,000
* Department of Homeland Security Budget - 41,347,000,000
* Cost of War in Iraq - $92,000,000,000
* Cost to rebuild Iraq - 84,000,000,000
* Egyptian Military Aide - 1,300,000,000
* - 1,000,000,000

Grand Total - $222,455,156,000

Total US Population 2003 - $290,342,554

Middle East Debacle Cost per American Citizen - $766.20

Total Median Income for United States - $41,349

Percent Raise that $766.20 would give to Avg. Median Income Household (assuming household of 1) - 1.9% ($766.20)
Assuming household of 2 - 3.7% ($1532.40)
Assuming household of 3 - 5.6% ($2,298.60)
Assuming household of 4 - 7.4% ($3,064.80)
Assuming household of 5 - 9.2% ($3,831.80)

If we pull out of the Middle East (a losing battle) all together, we could:
1.) Use OUR money to rebuild our schools, modernize our country, protect the environment, create jobs, etc.
2.) Get a nice fat raise for 2004 (because we all know that the vast majority of public and private sector works will get squat this coming year)
3.) Significantly decrease terror threat, save American Soldier's lives, concentrate brainpower on goals that are worthwhile and achievable, boost our own economy with the individual monies or government spending that will ensue.

There ya go, have at it!”

“Yeah but if we pull out of the mid east who the hells gonna drive all the cabs?”

“Ya got my vote....”

“Nigal,
Watch out!
I got an a$$ chewing from Violin recently for making that correlation.”

“"I got an a$$ chewing from Violin recently for making that correlation."

I thought he only got mad when you say things about Mexicans?”

“I dunno, lets see?

Damn Wet backs!”

“Particularly when the this alternative solution existed for Iraq

”

“Halliburton might have to find an honest job????”

“What kind of flawed logic assumes that we automatically get a "nice fat raise" if we pull out of the middle east? Raises would be up to our bosses, not the government.”

“This over simplification of the problem omits several key factors.

Most of the money goes to goods and services provided by Americans. The material and profit is taxed, employees are paid and taxes collected on their wages.”

“i don't know about these alleged "economics," but i'm pretty sure Nigal would greatly enjoy an @ss chewing from Violin.”

“Lyra, HOW DARE YOU!”

“hi there, Stickdude! what's up?

it was easy!”

“Tax money = raises from taxes you are already paying.

bacpac, I understand your logic, but at least the money won't go to the Halliburton's of the world, and jobs will be created in areas that will help priority #1, US Citizens. The new jobs, and monies you spend will be taxed, but at least the majority of the $ will be used for American companies on Americans.

Essentailly, I'd rather spend my $700 on mom and pop shops like Enertia, or Latta Outdoors, instead of rebuilding and freeing countries to protect another country, who will end up destroying each other eventually in the name of Allah anyway.”

“"This over simplification of the problem omits several key factors.

Most of the money goes to goods and services provided by Americans. The material and profit is taxed, employees are paid and taxes collected on their wages."
bacpac
04:40:24 PM

So - if spending it overseas is so good for the economy and the bottom line, then you must be a major advocate for domestic spending increases.”

“Bon Saturnalia!
(XMas, solstice name - not a troll here)”

“Haliburton, Ford, GE, Disney.

Yea, these companies are the axis of evil.

Now I know why Buddha is a union socialist.”

“Can't use tax money at home,because more than your freinds can grab some.”

“It too bad that we have the Middle East situation going on. It would be real nice to have that get solved so we can move on. I gets the feeling that that ain't gonna happen until after I'm long gone.


Our infrastructure could use a little spucing up!”

“None of that would give us a raise in 2004. Mr. Bush is putting it all on the National Credit Card, silly.


Weren’t you one of the loudest voices calling for holy war after 9/11, Buddha Bear? While it is certainly your prerogative to change your mind and I welcome your more compassionate world view, to invade a country, smash stuff up and kill a bunch of people, only to change course midstream and leave its people to civil war and mayhem is morally indefensible. Playing God with people’s lives is EVIL. Like it or not, we now have an obligation to the people of Iraq.

Such action would also be more proof to would-be tyrants and terrorists that America will cut and run at the first sight of her own blood. Leaving Iraq prematurely would only invite more death in the future.”

“"I dunno, lets see?

Damn Wet backs!"

Let's stick to ripping on the French. What do you say? The French aren't even brave enough to swim to this country.”

“Nothing like bashing the French to bring us all together for the Holidays! ;)”

“Weren’t you one of the loudest voices calling for holy war after 9/11, Buddha Bear?

Notice, I never mentioned Afghanistan here.”

“I think Buddha's been hanging out with laqtis too much. When do we get our conforming state uniforms?”

“Ummm...



"Yes! we should invade Iraq, and right now. If we wait until World Trade Center II, or worse, all you damned peace niks will be asking, why?, why did this happen to us?

Frag Saddam, now."
-- Buddha Bear
09:33:05 PM
08/01/02


or this?:

"5. Heavily bomb the countries harboring any terrorist organizations that are even remotely tied to the suicide bombings. If the causualties include women and children, so be it.
6. Create a law allowing our government to actively assasinate terrorist and world leaders who condone this behavior.

What will we do now that this atrocity has happened? Will we sit back and be politically correct, and let those damned Arabs dance in the streets even more. Or do we use our force and might as the greatest nation in the world to destroy THE ENEMY! This is a new war we are fighting folks, and our tolerant political views must be abandoned for the harsh reality that we face. War at any cost."
-- Buddha Bear
05:41:06 PM
09/11/01”

“Again - I welcome your changed heart.”

“I gotta say after reading that is...Buddha come back to us!!!

I'm just too black and white when it comes to Iraq. We should have said, "We are going to go squash this evil motherphucker for no other reason than ridding the world of evil." and went with that. The flopping around and waffling was bad news.

Evil earns it's own right to be destroyed.”

“We need to stay until the job is done.

BB, it's good to see you giving thought to world events.”

“Nigal - Make sure your on time for the Clark MeetUp this weekend this time 'round, k? You were 20 minutes late to the last one and we can't hold this one up for ya.”

“Yes! we should invade Iraq, and right now. If we wait until World Trade Center II, or worse, all you damned peace niks will be asking, why?, why did this happen to us?

Frag Saddam, now."
-- Buddha Bear
09:33:05 PM
08/01/02

They played upon my fear and anger, now I'm wiser.
or this?:

"5. Heavily bomb the countries harboring any terrorist organizations that are even remotely tied to the suicide bombings. If the causualties include women and children, so be it.

I would like to revoke that comment.
6. Create a law allowing our government to actively assasinate terrorist and world leaders who condone this behavior.

I still kinda like this one

What will we do now that this atrocity has happened? Will we sit back and be politically correct, and let those damned Arabs dance in the streets even more. Or do we use our force and might as the greatest nation in the world to destroy THE ENEMY! This is a new war we are fighting folks, and our tolerant political views must be abandoned for the harsh reality that we face. War at any cost."
-- Buddha Bear
05:41:06 PM
09/11/01"

God love ya Violin! I must say, after being lied to, reading more on the situation in the Middle East, and who our actions benefit the most, I retract that statement as well. Let's pull out of there and see what happens. The road we are on now will not solve anything, and is only going to create more problems. If we pull out now, let them run thier own show, and they still attack us through terrorist methods, then we need to revisit my original statements.”

“Buddha, a tear in my eye (albeit a small one)...we actually agree

I think we should focus on keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, yes. To that end, the war on Iraq is a distraction. However, we got ourselves in there, now we must get ourselves out (the right way)”

“I have to admit that I don't know if the job can be done in Iraq. I certainly hope that we can help build a stable and free Iraq - and I think we need to try at this point.

Cutting and Running now would be a disaster. The lesson a lot of people would be - the US likes to throw its weight around, but if you stand in their long enough and inflict enough damage, they will turn tail.

That was the lesson of the Marine Barracks bombing. Reagan ordered the shelling of the Shouf mountains and tried to use military might in Lebanon, but one suicide truck bomb and he turned tail. That cost something like 242 American lives. Clinton did the same in Somalia (14 lives?).

I could be wrong Buddha, but for now I am to the right of you on this one. I don't doubt Bush's ability to fvck it up even worse than it is now, but there are some good people in government and in the military and maybe Bush's team will start listening to them... and maybe someone better will be president in 2004.

I am afraid that people are too superificial in their thought about politics and governance, and that people will be swayed by the modest economic rebound Bush has purchased at the cost of several trillion dollars of debt. He will have borrowed something like 10,000 dollars per tax payer in his four years - but we are more likely to see the 2,000 in cash he handed us and not the 10K he put on our tab.”

“Nigal-

Then we would have to admit that we supported Saddam in 83 when we backed Iraq in their fight against Iran. Was he not the evil dictator back then? Or were our own self interests justified?”

“Howard Dean”

“I agree Biz, about past support for Saddam. (I think Dean may have too much baggage to be a good candidate or effective President, although his positions are much more eclectic than some people realize.)

Sadam was more actively dangerous when we were buddying up to him, than he was now... and many of those mass graves were filled when he was our bullwark of defense against Iran. We could have allowed him to be overthrown in 1991 - without lifting a finger... but the BushI administration (including some of the folks in the Bush II administration) felt it wasn't in our interests to do so. We let him suppress and massacre his opposition - and now expect the world to believe that we overthrew him for humanitarian reasons?

Yikes!”

“Cutting and running - not the wisest of moves.

Iraq descends into chaos, fundamentalist Arab governement formed by extreme clerics. Saudi Arabian extremists heartened by the move take control in SA, siezing the oil supply. Kuwait looks weak and elsewhere hopes rise of a single arab nation. Kuwait invaded - world oil prices go through the roof, economy tanks in America, people lose their jobs - invasion needed again to sort out terrorists and threat from fundamentalist regimes now in power in much of the middle east.
Isreal threatened.... nuclear war a possibility.
Yes - invading a country - creating instability in the area and then running home cos it costs too much seems a very viable option to me.”

“It has never been our foreign policy to rid the world of evil. But it is a nobel cause.

I like what the Alliance for the New Humanity is proposing....

http://anhglobal.org/main.html

They are much better equipped than our government, to impact evil in the world, what's more is they can influence our government, the role of government isn't (and shouldn't be) to overthrow evil in the world. It is to provide stability for those it governs...”

“I have very strong feelings on this but I'm afraid I've been told I have to wait three years before baiting people in political threads.”

“Send the nukes up and obliterate everything!

This will solve everything!”

“Go ahead Bison

Speak your mind an your ass will follow.”

“I'm sure North Korea is saying the same thing WK, maybe even the French...errrr...about the nukes, not Bison”

“"Nigal - Make sure your on time for the Clark MeetUp this weekend this time 'round, k? You were 20 minutes late to the last one and we can't hold this one up for ya."

Sorry about that. I had to wash my black robes and track down a sacrificail baby. We can't expect Clark to win on his own merits do we? We need the help of the Dark Lord if there's to be a hope.”

“WWB2TD?

(What Would bird2tiny Do?)”

“According to Goethe, Mephistopheles gave Faust 24 years and it's only been 14 years since Bush left his failed oil business and became involved with the baseball team. I'm waiting to see what transpires in 2013.”

“Mephistopheles is not his name. I know what he's up to just the same.

I have no confidence in the Bush Admin's economic policies. The swagger they have shown to the world in financial matters has bit us more than once (read steel tarrifs, canadian lumber tarrifs), and the dollar continues to slide versus the euro. If we were to slide far enough that OPEC considers switching from dollar to euro, we could see a financial disaster for the US, and I believe Bush may be just the man to make that happen, but for the threat of military reprisal!”

“where's jimmy carter when ya need him?”

“or Robert Rubin...”

“shup viOLin...”

“(from the whole crew around the bar)


Noam!”