I got my X-country ski boots

“http://www.backcountrystore.com/store/product_detail_large.html?product_id=SAL0319&id=kvPoqwBR

I went to LL Beans today, 40% off. Instead of $109.00, they were available for $65.00. Then I had $30.00 of their funny money and an old gift certificate for $15.50. Bottom line, out of pocket: $22.75.

I have been wearing them around the house to break them in. Hopefully I'll get to use them before I go to BSP with Twigeater. Oh yeah, now I gotta find a binding to mount on my skiis.....”

“I am so jealous. One thing I have found about my Saloman boots is that they take very little breakin.”

“Great deal!

What kind of skis are you using?”

“Karhu, with a metal edge, about 3/4 of the ski. These are a little wider than the traditional x-country skiis, and a little shorter. I have three pair all set up without the metal edges. I grabbed a couple pair on clearance for SB and myself last winter. I have been watching for these boots for me. I can slip out of the skiis, keep the boots on and these will work in my snow shoes. Also, if I have to temporarily step out of the skiis and walk a bit over a steep and narrow, these boots have some real cleats. One less pair of boots to lug into BSP with Twigeater. I'd get SB a pair of these, but I don't think they go down to her size. We'll visit REI this weekend, maybe. Supposedly, they stock a size 5 unisex. She takes a 5 womens....”

“Sounds like you made a good choice.

I have an almost brand new pair of Asolo Snowfields (3 pin)in a womans 5/5.5 Because of the small size, they are a trifle stiff (torsional rigidity goes up as size goes down), but they are a great back-country boot. Any women out there,that needs a good back-country 3 pin boot, can get them for a steal.”

“Cool beans, monkeyboy!

My ski boots didn't take any break in time either, none ever have. A bad thing happened to mine on my last BSP trip. I had my boots next to my bunk, behind the stove, AND under one of the wall mounts for candles. The base leaked, and I didn't notice until my ski boots were covered in candle wax. Fortunately none got inside the boot, but still...I'll be paying more attention next bunkhouse. :(”

“Which bindings did you get? I wonder if those fit on mine.”

“These boots take an SNS back country binding, manual or step in. I have found some for $65.00. More searching today, but gotta be home for kick off.

We did find SB a nice pair of comfy boots, but the walking tread ain't as aggressive as the ones I got. We'll be at REI today, they go down to size 5 unisex, she takes a 5 ladies.”

“I have Salomon SNS Backcountry bindings, but they are nearly ten years old now. Still going strong. So are my boots. I really can't justify replacing either of them. All the black is scuffed of my boots, but the are the most comfortable, warm ski boots I have ever had.”

“Just got back from REI. First time there. I am very impressed with them. For some reason, I thought they were an out west store only.

They didn't have SB's shoe size, so we'll go back to Carter's in Oxford and pick up those nice comfy ones. They have a square back heel, so they will work in a pair of snowshoes.

Oh yeah, did I mention that we are really gonna try to bring them to the BSP trip this year. That means we are really gonna try to get the time off and come. I just hope Twigeater is arranging for the snow to be plentiful.”

“I brought my boots back to Bean's, after hearing what everyone was saying about not needing to break them in. My right foot sore the next morning, and I knew it was from the boots. I traded them in for the next size up and all is well. I have worn them for several hours the other night, and am doing so now. Better to find out now, than 5 miles in at BSP.

On top of that, we found some square back boots for SB, very comfy. She got the Rossignol BC X 5. She just put them on and will confirm the fit later this evening. Good and comfy, I hope, at the end of the night. For now, our feet will be a sweatin....”

“Ok, I might just look into getting some skis.

Monkey Boy - you know what kind of skiing I'm interested in, like hiking into Baxter SP with a sled. I really like that type of boot your got where you can use them for snowshoes as well.

Sooo, toss me some ideas for the entire package keeping in mind that I know diddly about this stuff. I'm not interested in steep terrain or that telemarketing stuff (I hate those calls at dinnertime).”

“If you want to try for free, look at the Hike Maine Winter trip. Basically, I lay out what extra gear we have, three complete sets. I think Twigeater has an extra set also??? Ski racer has a couple sets also??? Maybe, if we all bring all our gear, we can have a demo day, where everyone gets to try out before they buy!!!

Back to your request. The skiis I have worked pretty well for up down and all around. They are also the same skiis I dragged my kids around on when they were younger. Strictly uphill is the pits though. But I like my skiis quite a bit. I've tried quite a few in years gone by. When all is said and done, I have ended up with 5 pair of these, 2 with metal edges, and 3 without.

They make klimbing skins for uphills, which is basically a huge lint brush that you stick on the bottom of your skiis to go uphill.

I saw some skiis at Beans, that are about 4-5 inches wide and short. Look almost like a modified snowshoe. I don't know about them, fad or good idea....

If you do the kind of skiing you saw me doing, the skiis I have will work good all around. Rdemember the skate skiiers we saw? They flew up the trail and back. You won't do that in these skiis. But they are great on trail and off. But as we saw last year, snow shoes work better on crust. I checked out Twigeater's skiis last year. I like them-alot! I wonder if she'll bring them this year and leave them hanging around.... JK!

Anyways, just some thoughts, or ramblings.....”

“Pennsy, We have found that "square back" boots are harder and harder to come by. They still make them, but most are rounded over, for that "sleek" look. Karhu makes a few models for backcountry touring that are Three pin binding. Very heavy duty, and will take a snowshoe very well. Rossignol still makes some with NNN back country bindings, and of course the ones I got.”

“Yes, I can bring both sets of skis...I want to see the Almighty one on skis, LOL!

I've skate skied with my regular skis before, but only playing.

o(=D”

“Thanks for the info so far. You kinda lost me with the NNN and 3 pin bindings since I have no clue about this stuff.

Anywho, there's several weeks of winter between now and the Maine trip and I should be getting a tax refund in a few weeks. Soooo, I wouldn't mind shopping around now if I get a clue as to what I might want.

I just looked around REI and for examples, here's some stuff I saw:

Fischer Outbound Crown $179
Rottefella NNN-3 BC bindings $59
Salomon X-Adventure 5 boots $109

I doubt I'd want skate skis. I live right next to a narrow towpath that runs along a river which would be perfect for after work workouts. Plus, I'd like to hit some trails in the Pa gamelands and the Catskills.

I don't want to do the Maine trip as a ski virgin. You guys will kill yourselves laughing.”

“I love the boots! I have the Fischer Rebounds for skis.

VFTT has great info on skis - you can probably find a thread that'll help you.

Don't worry Bruce, you won't be the only one being laughed at - I've been x-c skiing for 20 years - somedays I'm good! and somedays I can hardly remain upright on them.

o(=D”

“Oh yeah, and I would never laugh at you!
>:p”

“omigawd! I just did a google search on Fischer Rebounds, and this thread was #4 on the results list, with my posts as the narrative. too funny!”

“PS Bruce - (LOL) if you click on monkeyboy's link, you'll see the same boots you linked to, except on sale for $76. Only 13 pair left though. Plus I didn't see those boots on the LLB website, but you can call them and tell them what you want and see if they still have them on sale. I like those boots better than mine!”

“Pennsy, I paid $65.00 at Beans, they are now running a 40% off sale. If you find the size that fits you, call bean's and have them deliver them. Like Twigeater said, they aren't listed in the website. Be careful with sizing though. I am an 8 1/2, but took a 9 1/2 in those.

Sadly, they don't come in SB's size.... We had to get different ones.

NNN bindings are the step in style I had last year. Back country are a heavier duty version. The boots and the bindings need to be compatible. Essentially, there is a rod, going across the front of the boot, under the toe. You step into the binding, press down with your toe, and they lock into place. They won't let go either... uh.. check that, I have gotten tangled up so bad that they needed to let go, and they did. It was either that or my knees, LOL.

Three pin bindings. I used to ski in those, years ago. They work okay, but I think the NNN are superior. I have heard that out west, three pin is king, though. On these, you have a sturdy piece of the boot sole extending out in front of your toes, say 5/8 of an inch or so. There are three holes in the bottom of this extension. Then the binding has three pins (Hence the name) sticking up from the bottom that insert into the three holes. Then there is a "clamp bar" that you swing down over the sole extension, and it gets hooked down, generally a 2 or 3 position hook to more securely hook the clamp bar. Properly done, they work very well. I have forced the clamp bar down when the pins weren't properly aligned, and made 3 new holes in my boot.... Happened alot with my kids, who took forever to learn how to properly place their toes in the binding while I locked them down. (That really swayed me from the 3 pin to the step in for them).

The three pin boots generally have a square back to accept a snowshoe.

I like the skiis you linked to. My skiis do not have full stell edges, just 3/4 length of them is stell. Mine are also foam core, the ones you linked to have a wood core. The wood should be a better design.

Just a note on the Salomon X-adventure 5 boots. You'll need SNS BC bindings with those, not the NNN-BC.

Initials: I think NNN stands for New Nordic Norn, or something like that, the BC stands for Back Country (Indicating a beefier binding) and the SNS (I'm guessing) means Salomon Nordic Style.”

“Watch the rear part of the binding. It used to be, many years ago, that the three pin boots had a slot in the heel, which would nicely accept a ridge mounted on the rear part of the binding, to hold your heel in place. Only thing was they never gave a rigde, just a friction spot. They now have the ridges available in the bindings. If you get three pin, get the ridge for sure. NNN and SNS bindings will be all set up as you need them. Just watch the three pin for this feature.”

“I have Fischer BCX Outbound Crown for my backcountry skis. I just have regular NNN bindings mounted on them, but am thinking about getting backcountry NNN bindings and BC boots. My standard cross country boots are pretty stiff. I also have a pair of waxable Fischer Europas (3 pin) and a pair of waxless Fischer Radials (NNN)for my touring skis. I use these mostly for skiing in track. I do not have an extra pair of boots, but if anyone wants me to bring my touring Fischers to try out, let me know.

Pennsy, the Fischer Outbound Crown skis you have listed are pretty wide. I saw them in a shop and they looked more like telemark skis than backcountry cross country skis. The version of Fischer BCX Outbound Crown skis that I have are a couple of years old and have a normal backcountry width with full metal edges.”

“Holy crap, you guys are losing me. LOL! NNN, BCX, NNN-BC, SNS etc.... Rear part of the binding? Aren't the heels free on x-country skis?

the Fischer Outbound Crown skis you have listed are pretty wide. I saw them in a shop and they looked more like telemark skis than backcountry cross country skis

Is that good or bad?
In any case, I'm heading to Florida tomorrow morning so I won't be thinking about skis til Monday.”

“When you look at the skiis and bindings, the fronts of the boots are hooked in and they pivot. When you put your heel down, there is generally some way to hold your foot parallel with your ski. Really good idea when you are turning, you know. On the NNN and SNS there is a groove running front to back on the boot and a matching ridge in the binding. On the three pin, there is genearlly a groove in the boot that will accept a ridge screwed to the back area of the binding. So while the heels are free, when you jam them down, you get some lateral stability.”

“Ohhhh ok.... thanks for stooping down to my level and speaking English. :o)

This is all weird because 25 years ago I lived to downhill ski. This x-country stuff is soooo different. I read some stuff on VFTT. What's a tele-turn?

Next week I'll have to find some outfitters in this area that carries this stuff. I definately need to see and try on boots before buying.”

“A tele turn is kinda like a tele tubby.... JK

A tele turn is something that requires strong quads. Essentially, you do a lunge to turn. The front foot is on the outside of the turn, the rear foot, of course, is on the inside. I have seen telemarkers take on some pretty tough courses and under full control. We can only envision their quads burning up at the end of the day....”

“I have the Fischer Outbound Crowns (with 3-pin bindings and these Karhu boots). I've only used them a couple of times, so can't comment in too much detail. The main difference I noticed between those and my older touring skis without edges is that they are stiffer and the crown texture on the bottom covers less of the ski. That results in poorer traction on the uphills. I'll just have to use my skins more than before. I should be able to provide a better review after a trip I'm going on in a couple weeks near Mt. Dana in Yosemite. BTW, I really like the boots - very comfortable while skiing and while not. Bought my wife a pair - she loves 'em too!”

“To quit renting, I'm putting together a downhill ski set, can I get some late season hep!? Possibly even pick up some hand-me-down stuff? Got a set of 169cm Solomon X-SCREAM skis with some 'Marker' bindings. The couple of Solomon models of skiboots that we have don't have my size ..... a 26.5. And for me to purchase on the Italian market is just insane.... these ppl pay INSANE prices on hitec outdoor rec stuff!

Hey Skiracer, whuchya thank of these skis, and, do you have any buds or fav stores to land me some boots? Grazie!”

“Hmmm. Can't help you much on the downhill stuff, n.a. But maybe you can help me later - we're hoping to travel to Venezia and a few other places in that neck of the woods - may need some suggestions.... :-)”

“naked ape-

Your skis and bindings should be great. What kind of boots are you looking for? Do you want all mountain? What type of skiing do you normally do? Are you sticking mainly to blue cruisers, going into the moguls, doing any racing? I just bought a pair of Lange Comp 120's. They are fairly stiff and I had a lot of cusom work done on them. I went down a whole size and they are really tight. I had custom footbeds molded, stretched out the shell on one of the ankles, stretched the inner liner on my right foot and added custom canting. Luckily, I found a really good bootfitter in NH. I also paid through the nose for the privilege. I cannot buy off-the-shelf boots any longer without customizing them because of a less than normal ankle due to a bad sprain when I was in my middle 20's.

My suggestion is to go to ski shops in Italy and try on some stuff. Once you get the right make, model and size of boot that is comfortable, go online to find them. Deals should start to come around because it's later in the season. Good luck. Rossignol, Head (which bought San Marcos boot company a couple of years ago), Technica, and Lange all make great boots. Salomon makes some good models, but the fit can be tricky. I would stay away from Nordicas, although you might find exactly what you are looking for in a pair of them. Ski boots have made some great advancements in recent years.”

“Ski, you are just awesome as heck, dude! I knew you'd print up them killer paragraphs! For my skiing past, just the occasional rental for a day on the slopes, or borrowing from friends. I do the downhill gig for now, not skeert of wiping out on the blacks, and I likes moguls. Not likely to do any racing; I mean I'm a housewife, lucky as heck to just get a day a week off for the slopes... girls to school, baby to sitter, Daddy to slope for a couple of hours!

What kinda boots am I looking 4? I don't have the fawgiest idea! Boots are boots are boots I used to thank. I want an intermediate-advanced boot that's a more "all around fun" boot, than a specific task boot. Does that exist? The name-game is what I really need, I can check out e-stores and ebay'n such, thanx! Shoot me an email if there's something that I need to check out. Now in Solomon I'm a 26.5, but if their sizing is off some, I better check on other boots too, as you tolt me. You da man ski!

Bowlderman, are you verifiable?? Been on any TT trips? I needs to check you out dude, knowwhutImean? If'n you aiight, I have the det's on northern Italy. We're about an hour and fiteen from Venecia, so staying at our pad for nuttin' and training onto the island beats the heck outa shellin' out da molto cash for staying there. Don't know what ya want, but a day there is great, 2 would certainly give you the entire Venice pkg, perhaps even a boat-taxi to Murano. Just last weekend we took off to Bolzano for a night and checked out the 5000 year old Iceman, wickeder'nshi..caca!! In the last 7 months we've been some travlin' foo's! When ya thankin' bout coming this way?”

“Hey ape! Yeah, I'm "real" - if you check out the Yoho trip reports, you'll learn that it's a bad idea to hike downhill of wherever I am!

We're (me, wife, 9-year-old son, 74-year-old father-in-law) thinking of coming there in mid-late August. General idea is to fly into Milan, see the Last Supper (was halfway restored when we were there before), then over to Venice, then up to Vienna/Budapest/Prague - don't know for sure, just throwing around ideas right now. My wife and I were there (Italy) a few years back - we stayed in Venice (actually not too expensive). We haven't really planned much of anything yet, but if it's alright, maybe I could email ya' in a month or so when we get going on the planning?

What the heck are you doing living in Italy? And how do I get in on some of that action?!”

“Nice link on the Yoho trip, a wonderful read. Yeah gimme an e' and I'll help in any way I can. We've not done Milan yet, we'll hafta look into the that Last Supper thing you are talking about.

What are we doing here?? You ever heard of Uncle Sam? Hehe, he brought us here for a few years. Thus far we've visited Porec and Pula inCroatia; Salzburg, Austria; Venice twice with a Murano sidetrip; Verona; Florence and Pistoia in Tuscany, Bolzano, and a daytrip to Nove. End of Feb we're doing a 4-dayer in Tuscany to see Pistoia, Pisa, and midevil Lucca.”

“REI is having a sale on winter gear and I called to order skis, boots, and bindings tonight. Specifically, Fischer Outtabounds waxless, Salomon SNS Raid bindings, and the Salomon X-Adventure 5 boots.

However, they do NOT mount the bindings. WTF?? They said I can take them to an REI store for a free installation. The nearest store is down by Philadelphia and a pain to get to. There aren't any ski stores in my area that I know of to have them mounted, and there is no way I'll do it myself.

For now, I cancelled the call. Crap.”

“REI also has a "spot mounting charge". They mount the bindings free but if you want it done while you wait there is a charge.
$15.00 at the Boston store, not sure if it's the same all over.”

“Pennsy, I just mounted my bindings to the skiis two days ago. It's a pretty simple procedure, but they do not include the directions for the SNS. BRB.

Okay, I just grabbed some instructions out of the garbage. They were for my wife's bindings. And they work the same for the SNS bindings. The pro at the shop I bought them at told me they all mount basically the same way.

I can mail them to you, if you send an e-mail with your address to me. Use the e-mail in my profile. I'll clean the coffee grounds off for you. LOL

To do it, you'll need a drill with a 1/8 inch bit, exterior elmers type yellow wood glue, and a #3 philips screwdriver. You'll also need a square piece of solid material about the size of a playing card.

What you do is hold the hard "playing card" on edge and place your ski on it until it balances like a teeter totter. Mark that spot on the top of your ski. This is your "ski balance". This is where you screw the pair of screws in your bindings to the ski. (You have 5 screws. The first is a single screw, the next two are the pair, side by side, then the next is a single screw and so is the last.)

Put the three piece binding together (it just snaps together). Align pair of screws with ski balance, set parrallal with ski and touch drill through the first three binding holes to ski. Remove binding, and drill (carefully) into ski about 14 mm. I just drilled about a quarter inch, which also got thru the metal binding reinforcement. Put a drop of glue into the holes. Then you screw the first section to the ski. Slide the second piece into place, drill thru binding, glue and screw. Repeat for final piece. There is a "button" that snap over the last screw head. As each piece goes in, you cover the screw heads. Then there is a rubber toe bumper that you press into place. You may need a screwdriver to pop the tab into place to hold it securely.

This ain't exactly rocket science, so if you are off from the ski balance a half inch or so, it really won't matter much. In my younger days, (Am I really old enough to say that?) I ripped a binding off and reamed the holes out so bad the screws couldn't go back into them. The pro remounted the one binding a half inch back, into new holes and the skiis worked fine. No, he did not move the other one also. So my bindings were misaligned for a couple years before I noticed and all was okay. You don't have to be certified to mount these professionally, like you would have to be for downhill skiis. It really is low tech.

If REI is too far away for mounting, I'll bet a local ski shop will mount them for you. Bear in mind, it'll probably be some 19 year old kid doing it, but I'll bet he's had some practice, too.

Anyways, this is kinda long and step by step, but I hope it helps you out. Or.... if you like, I could do it with you when you get here, but that means you'll have to wait a while before you are able to play with them.....

Oh yeah, REI is having a half off special starting Friday for 10 days. It's their super clearance. If the price is $##.83 (The price ends in 83 cents) it is half off the lowest marked price. We just went there last night, and didn't get anything, hemming and hawing, you know. The sales rep told us that, and everything we had our eye on ended in .83. I think we'll have to go back.....”

“Thanks anyway MB but like I said, I'm not going to mount them myself and there is no local ski shop. I'm not about to start saying "REI sucks" but I think it's pretty lame that they won't mount them. I'll find a sale somewhere else.”

“huh huh, he said MOUNT”

“I think I'll start a new thread on this subject.”

“On mounting?”

“Wow, did I type all that this morning. That alone would convince me that it was too much effort. I gotta agre with you Pennsy, if they sell it, they ought to be willing to mount it...”

“They probably will not mount mail order skis becasue of the return rate.”

“It is really easy Pennsy. I used to be one of those 16yo's mounting then in the back of my local shop. Course back in those days it was mostly 3-pins.”

“Pennsy, Isn't Nestor's down near you. I think they sell skis. The skiing on the local forests and gamelands has been good. Hopefully, it lasts a few more weeks.”

“It's partly principle but mostly that I know I'd screw it up. Since I have never x-country skiied, I don't even know what the things should look like, never mind how to mount them. You'd probably see me ski backwards or sideways.

Scorchy.... your mind is always in the gutter.










That's a good thing by the way.”

“Hey Rich, funny you mention Nestors because I drove up there the other night. It's only 30 minutes from here but I found out they are now closed. I heard they relocated somewhere but not sure where.”

“Backwards, huh. At the mountain last week, I saw a munchkin stepped into his skiis backward (downhill) and was actually practicing backwards skiing. Fun to watch. Maybe I'll try that.....”

“I didn't know they closed. Last time I was there was the spring of 2002. From now until spring is usually when you can get some great deals on XC skiing equipment.”

“As in kid, or midget? Now THAT'D be a sight!”