Graffiti, vandalism or Art?

“I'd like to know how some of you feel about this. It's for school.
I personaly feel it's Art. Being in the city, you see some very interesting graffiti. I don't like where they put it, but some are very nice.

What about you? and why?


”

“There are weeds growing through the pavement.....where the hell is all the trash?”

“If the person that painted it didn't have permission from the wall owner than I would say all of the above.”

“did the Inca's have permission?
or any other tribe wanting to be heard?”

“Like any means of expression there is the good and the bad. Lots of graffiti (and painting, sculpture ect.) is purely crap.

There some pretty talented folks out there and the the work in itself has artistic merit. Unfortunately many choose to create in such a way as to cross into vandalism.

Is it art? Some is, some isn't. Is it vadalism? Depends on where it is applied.”

“Incas? Consider if someone painted on your wall without permission. Comaparing this to Native peoples making cave paintings is a stretch, even for you.”

“In this case, and many others in the inner cities, sometimes, it's best to "artfully" attack a wall. It is my opinion that inner cities are owned by their own...soem great artists have emerged from them doing things just like this. Robert Wyland did not practice on a 5x7 sketchpad.

”

“I would think so seeing as all monumental works of ancient civilizations were done by royal decree.”

“What HPM said was what I was getting at. It is apparent that the painter of this example has some talent.”

“It is both, no?”

“Very nice Wolfeyes.

I didn't actually answer the question. The first pic looks like art and vandalism.”

“Is it art? Some is, some isn't. humanpackmule
12:05:57 PM

ok then how do you define what is Art?

fair enough dayhiker, if one got permission, then is it Art?”

“Dangit, HPM does it again. He articulates what I can't in a much less "bacpac" sort of way. Nice royal reference.”

“If Warhol's soup can can be classified as art, than this certainly qualifies. It'd be interesting to hear of the intention of the "artist." Frescos are paintings within architectual elements and art doesn't have to represent anything recognizable. The artists "craft" is definately refined and his palette superb!
Alot to do with the "aethetic" is the presence of being there, seeing a .jpg can't do the image justice. A Jackson Pollack in person is VERY different than the image from a book or net.

I doubt there is a right answer (except for mine, of course.)”

“Ahh, if they had permission then I'd say that it's art in the form of graffiti. Graffiti being a subset of art. HPM has the art degree. Sound about right?”

“IMO, it's very artfully done graffiti. It's a shame there isn't more of it. I'd much rather see that than the other trash you usually see on a "blank" wall.”

“It's art if the person who did it becomes famous! LOL!! Until then, maybe it can be looked at as vandalism. Eminem's lyrics were nothing until he became famous. They were just words.”

“Me personally or are you looking for a definative answer.

The definative answer is that there is no definative answer. That particular question has been argued and expounded upon for as long as mankind has scratched and altered their surroundings.

A few of the leading theories are:
Art is communication
Art is worship
Art is hubris
Art is truth
Art is lie
Art is decoration
Art is destruction
Art is change
Art is rape
Art is love
Art is perception

Do a google search on any of those terms and you will find the progenitors and supporters of those theories. Most of them are a very dusty and tireing read.

For me personally Art is an amalgam of all of them. I see elements of each theory of art in all things. What really matters to me is if it strikes a response in me and if its execution is technicly sound.

Honestly I could go on this subject for weeks. My minor was in Art history and majored as a studio artist.

All that really matters is what is Art in YOUR eyes and not mine.”

“ok maybe I should have just asked.


what is defined as Art. is it in the eye of the beholder?
isnt Art a way of voicing your opinion?”

“I believe there is a percentage of the population who are creative and artistically blessed. Some of those folks creativity cannot be stifled and will inevitably be expressed. This wasn't a "drive-by" tagging. The surface had been prepped and the artist didn't wing it. I expect he had a cartoon (working drawing) to work from.
I think whether its art has to be "judged" by the piece itself, not by permissions granted or not.”

“thank you all.

HPM, if you can lead me to some websites that would help alot.
I am getting ready to start my Persuasive Argument project in Oral comm class.
It was cleared by my Prof.
Treebeard took some slides of graffiti back in the 70's. so i will take new ones and compare them to the ones tree took,
I guess I was looking for what people think if Graffiti is a form of Art.”

“art
[ME, fr. OE eart; akin to ON est, ert (thou) art, OE is is] archaic pres 2d sing of be ²art n [ME, fr. OF, fr. L art-, ars--more at arm] (13c) 1: skill acquired by experience, study, or observation {the ~ of making friends} 2 a: a branch of learning: (1): one of the humanities (2) pl: liberal arts barchaic: learning, scholarship 3: an occupation requiring knowledge or skill {the ~ of organ building} 4 a: the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp. in the production of aesthetic objects; also: works so produced b (1): fine arts (2): one of the fine arts (3): a graphic art 5 a archaic: a skillful plan b: the quality or state of being artful 6: decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter
syn art, skill, cunning, artifice, craft mean the faculty of executing well what one has devised. art implies a personal, unanalyzable creative power {the art of choosing the right word}. skill stresses technical knowledge and proficiency {the skill of a glassblower}. cunning suggests ingenuity and subtlety in devising, inventing, or executing {a mystery plottedwith great cunning}. artifice suggests technical skill esp. in imitating things in nature {believed realism in film couldbe achieved only by artifice}. craft may imply expertness in workmanship {the craft of a master goldsmith}.”

“"Art is in the eye of the beholder" in my mind is the only universal truth in Art.

The opinion thing is considered to be a part of the "Art is communication" school of thought.

Very true Fly. Oh anf FLy gets extra credit for knowing what a cartoon really is.

I do agree that the piece has to judged on it's own merits but the problem of the permissions is that it threatens the very survival of the work.

Not so very long ago the school of art that brought us "happenings" introduced the concept that the lack of permission and the short lifespan of such expression is an intrinsic element of the piece itself and bears major consideration as to the appreciation of the work.

And then there's the folks that are going to read this and say.

Damn HPM! What a load of crap. Some A-hole defaced my wall! Quit justifying it!”

“I'll try to get some stuff together for you Maple.

Also there was an artist in the 80's who's whole gig was graffiti. This whole issue was discussed and was one of the big art debates of the 80's.”

“so what kind of Art is graffiti?
Modern?




this is art too..


”

“Graffiti is one of the oldest art forms. It dates back to when our ancestors painted on cave walls.”

“So what's the difference between graffiti and a mural?


I always thought the difference was in the permissions.”

“oooo good question skully?”

“Art is diffrent in everyones eyes.


8)”

“Yoko Ono was part of the happenings crowd and her work had more to do with thoery than visual appreciation.

Actually Modern doesn't mean what you think it does. Modern refers to a school of art that frankly occured some 30 years ago. The term used to describe art that is currently being created is "Contemporary" and does not referr to a school or style.

Graffiti art is just that. Graffiti Art.

The most renown Graffiti Artist in Great Britian right now is Banksy.”

“do a google on this guy (and see the movie)

Jean-Michel Basquiat

(I guess its art if the yuppy white bread, coke snorting art officiandoes say it is) school.”

“That would be a true statment.

But a mural used to also referr to the technique of application. For example a fresco is a mural that is painted into wet plaster. A mural is painted onto a dry surface.

Soooo.....

Graffiti IS a mural but is termed graffiti due to permissions.

Also the term Graffiti needs some explination. the short version is a rude decoration inscribed on rocks or walls long defintion”

“Basquit was the guy I was trying to think of.”

“err Basquiat.”

“That pic that Maple put up is art to me it looked very cool!


8)”

“Ah, yes. But what differentiates between craft and art?”

“Craft implies possible functionality of the end product.”

“Ahhhhhhhh! Thanks Maple, now I'm have flash backs of the Modernity class I had to take in college.”

“What of hand-painted forgeries of "art." Are they craft or art. Are they merely "functioning" as decoration? What if they are indistinquishable from the master's? Are they art until they are discovered to be something else?
(I think I'm gonna need a double of scotch to continue. Virtual campfire, fer shur!!!)”

“interesting guy jean-michel

”

“LMAO @ FLyguy!!!!!!

I am so reminded of brand new boy scouts before thier first trip. What if, what if, what if. But what if.

LOL!”

“mapleleaf

art is many different things to many different people. I can't and won't say whether it's art, but if that "graffiti" was done on someones elses property w/o their permission than it's vandalism.”

“Jo, what if that property owner hasn't paid their taxes and hasn't cared for the property in "G-d knows how long?" What if the "art" was part of a neighbor-hood initiative?”

“I think some of it is really really cool. Would I be happy if I would wake up one morning and see my house painted in graffity? Heck no!!!

Would I be happy if I would have my office wall in graffity look? Yeah, if I asked for it. Which gives me a great idea...”

“Hmmmm!? Quite the enigma fly dude.

I teach science at an Arts Magnet School. The hallways are basically our galleries. There's some "interesting" art on the walls. A baby hanging in a noose, a naked overweight woman in a bathtub of milk, etc. I've gotten used to it. No landscapes here...just shock and awe.”

“A few links for you

graffiti.org
This is pretty good article on art Vs crime debate
PBS also had a great series called art in the 21st century Maybe you can find a copy at the library to watch.”

“Oh, I also found some slides of my own work and posted a link on the "What is your art?" thread.”

“Worst case vandalism?

Ruining a perfectly good mountain with the faces of politicians.

It's called Mount Rushmore!”

“So how do you feel about the Crazy Horse monument?”

“thank you HPM. thats the stuff im looking for.”