Kerry/Edwards 2004

“I've seen quite a few third parties attempting to get into Congress. When I lived in Taxachusetts a Libertarian was running against Ted Kennedy. She got a mighty high percentage if you consider where and who she was running against.

Now, I alway's love when Kerry supporters get angry and say things like, "You might as well vote for Bush" or, "You might as well not even vote!"

1. I'm an extreme "tree-hugging" liberal and Nader is closer to my views than Kerry.

2. Voting for Kerry just to get Bush out of office will never send our government the message we're tired of their B.S. Grow up and take a stand rather than the safe way out.

3. I honestly believe there is no difference between John Kerry and George Bush. I typically refer to them as Schmuck and Schmuckatelly. Which is which I leave up to you.

4. John Kerry has had over what, 20 years or so, to help improve the government, and how many times has he presented any bills or legislation to Congress to do just that? Does he think being called "Mr. President" will make him able to do this all of the sudden?

5. John Kerry supports the war. He says he doesn't but he voted for it and he has stated he will continue to commit our military personnel to the region. I despised the war on 9/11. If I, an ordinary citizen, can see from day 1 that we are going to war, and that it was machisimo B.S., then I think he should have too. Only an idiot plays the game of hindsight, "Duh, if I knew then what I know now..."

6. Jobs. He claims he's going to create penalties for corp.'s that go overseas but you have to ask how detailed and loop holed the concept is. Hint: He's not going to do anything that would hurt the fortune that bought his campaign jumbo jet.

7. Health care. He states he will work to cut premiums and provide a plan that all Americans can afford. The key word is afford. That means it will cost money and I guarantee a lot of people will be left out. Mostly minorities living in the inner city. Why promise what you can't deliver?

8. He claims he's going to fix the Federal Budget but proposes minor fixes to act as band-aids when our government needs a wheel chair at this point. Only Nader has proposed to cut the ridiculous 200 Billion we spend on the military, EVERY YEAR!!!! Libertarians have proposed to leave the military as a bare bones operation, which is ludicris. Some cuts would work great though. A Billion for Social Security, a billion for education... you get the point. Our military is not a Super Power anymore. It's a global dominator that maintains it's presence everywhere, at all times, in an effort of intimidation and as a show of brute strength. We should consider cutting back to Super Power.

Last but not least, Kerry will win anyway. Regardless of how anybody votes. Bush is a smoke screen. The "Bad President" that's supposed to make us appreciate Kerry, even though he will do nothing to benefit the people of this country. Bush has taken the fall for actions and policy's that Kerry will be sure to pick up where GW left off.”

“Silent J!

You make some very good points.

A few year ago, I felt that we needed a big change from our conservative Gov. John Engler.

I felt in my gut that the Democrat would win the general election, so I voted for the most dramatically different candidate in the race - David Bonior.

So, I would encourage you to continue to vote your heart.

However, I would say that Nader is not pure. He is openly taking money from big-time Republican fundraisers. And, as mentioned previously, he is getting on the ballot in Michigan because the Republicans funded a signature campaign for him.

He has been alerted to these Republican efforts. He has embraced them. His rationale is, basically, "whatever it takes."

If Ralph can be pragmatic, can you?”

“Silent J, I would also propose a deal with you. If you vote for Kerry in Ohio, I will vote for the Green candidate in the Michigan 7th Congressional District race in November.

Since Michigan counts any Green votes in the percentage needed for ballot access in future elections, it would help the party in Michigan. You could vote for a Green at a lower level in Ohio, helping ballot access there - depending on the rules.

You could possibly help the Green Party in two states. I could help get Kerry elected. Want to make a deal?”

“Now THAT'S politics!!


It's all about the deal.






Reformed Lurker in '08!”

“Don't forget the dagger between the shoulderblades....

Now THAT'S politics.


I hear Zell Miller might be speaking at the Republican's convention.”

“Zell is speaking at the convention, but he's really a republican for all intents and purposes anyway. The fact that he'll be with the republicans should carry no more weight than the fact that Ron Reagan was hangin' with the democrats.

BTW I don't know which thread it was posted on but someone said that Nancy wasn't supporting Bush, well I'm sorry but you're wrong, she is.

Nancy Reagan Supports Bush's Reelection”

“Heehee! Whenever a democrat goes against the party lines they are a traitorous turncoat but when it’s a republican they get their own thread and are trumpeted as a hero.”

“Like Jim Jeffords?”

“Exactly. He chose to switch parties and that was his choice. The fact he was a swing vote did make it more prominent though.

It will be interesting to see what the people who voted for him on one pretense thing the next time they go to the polls.”

“Yes it will.

Vermont has two independents of its three members of its congressional delegation.”

“RL, do you have any Green Party candidates running in Cuyahoga county. I'd be happy to vote for one of them.”

“"Bush is the choice for 88% of Republicans, 13% of Democrats, and 41% of unaffiliated voters. Kerry is preferred by 81% of Democrats, 9% of Republicans, and 42% of unaffiliated voters."

That's from today's Rasmussen track, I'm still searching for all of those republican defectors.

Have you found them yet Laqtis?”

“Would laqtis, Buddha Bear and Geobeet count?

There are several other regular posters that I suspect will cross party lines in November as well.

I don't know a single Gore voter who supports Bush - Not one.”

“Is Gus Hall running?”

“"Reverend Truth V Wicked"

I assume this is Violin channeling Al Sharpton.”

“November 3rd - scoreboard!”

“You know what happens when you assume, don't you?






You make an ass out of Uma Thurman.”

“"""Bush is the choice for 88% of Republicans, 13% of Democrats, and 41% of unaffiliated voters. Kerry is preferred by 81% of Democrats, 9% of Republicans, and 42% of unaffiliated voters."

That's from today's Rasmussen track, I'm still searching for all of those republican defectors.

Have you found them yet Laqtis?"


""Would laqtis, Buddha Bear and Geobeet count?

There are several other regular posters that I suspect will cross party lines in November as well...."



WTF you all takin' bout Willis?


Did I miss something while I was in class or something?”

“I'll catch up when I gets back rom work and before eyes do ma homewerk.”

“Oh OK you found all three of them, I'll make sure the Bush campaign starts fretting. :)”

“I propose a wager between Buddha Bush myself. If sKerry wins I leave TT forever. If Bush wins he moves to France.

Then again I have yet to get my 12er of Guinness from last November when Michigan beat the hell out of OSU. What a welcher…”

“Just thought this was interesting:


Professor Joseph Olsen of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,
Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent
Presidential Election:

Counties won by:

Gore - 677
Bush - 2,434


Population of Counties won by:

Gore - 127 million
Bush - 143 million


Square miles of land won by:

Gore - 580,000
Bush - 2,427,000



Murder rate per 100,000 residents in Counties won by:

Gore - 13.2
Bush - 2.1


Professor Olsen adds: in aggregate, the map of territory Bush won was
mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government
owned tenements and living off government welfare.


At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinborough) had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2000 years prior:

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is ) always followed
by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations, from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years,
these nations always progressed through the following sequences:

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back to bondage.


Olsen believes the United States is now somewhere between the
complacency and apathy phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy; with over 40% of the nation's population already having
reached the dependency phase.”

“Luckyily the modern trend is one of urbanization Arclite.

This Olson is hillarious though, I see you've not lost your style for highlighting the absurd texts produced by the wackos of the world.

"Professor Olsen adds: in aggregate, the map of territory Bush won was
mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government
owned tenements and living off government welfare."”

“arclite - You are misinformed (again):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp">www.snopes.com.


Try applying thought and checking you're 'facts' now and then.”

“you're your”

“I have to say, at first I could not believe a Republican would sign the petition to get Nader on the ballot. I would never sign a petition for a candidate I didn't believe in. I asked every Republican I know and almost all of them said they would though. What can I say. They have a common misconception that Nader stole the election from Gore even though exit polls indicate 11% of Dems voted for Bush while only 2% decided to go for Nader. I think it could also be an act of desperation because they know alot of people are angry with GW. The issue could easily be resolved if we could just get more people to the polls.

As far as Republican funds are concerned the people who have presented this always fail to tell the whole story. Nader accepts funds from individuals. Max contribution is $2000 for the primary and $2000 for the general election. He has strict guidlines concerning who can donate. Only individuals. No corp's or political action groups. He does not check party affiliation of individuals that contribute, however. That would be a bit tedious when you consider most of his donations are small amounts from people like us. Of course, the Dems also fail to mention that they are accepting funds from corporations and individuals that also donate to the Bush campaign. Only Nader has come under scrutiny and he enacts stricter policies on donations at his own will while the 2 major parties do what the law will let them get away with.

If it makes you feel any better I already know several people who would typically vote 3rd party but they have bought into the idea of voting Bush out. Basically they've chosen to vote Democrat out of fear. I can't do that.”

“"The issue could easily be resolved if we could just get more people to the polls....."

A-friggin-men.


The lack of fund that Nader limits himself, is his undoing. Third party candidates for the most part, run on one or two main issues. I don't know Nader's platform enough to profess what his one or two ideals are.

You have seen the belly of the beast and it is Republican. Trust me, if they had a solid platfrom, solid ideals and didn't rin this great nation into the ground, I'd throw my vote their way, and "pizza and a van" for them.

Remember, Nader has no control over what the "Repubs for Nader" do for him. Did he stop and denounce the signatures that were collected by the Repubs? No.

Will he denouce the ads from the Repub "PAC's" that will support him, he can't.

It's sad, but true, the man is a puppet in this election. Worse, he takes away from the small likely voter based that could be used to further his situation, through the spoils system.

Sec. of Commerce? Why not, if he played ball, but he'll make is mark in history as a person who could've done somerthing and didn't....the worst type of history a person could have. It will take away from everything he accomplished as a consumer advocate.

I'll feel bad for him.”

“Hey Laqtis, you wanna feel bad for him in the Daks this Labr Day weekend???”

“tempting ma man, very tempting indeed!

let me see what I can do.

can you e-mail me some info on what's up, or is there a spot I can gets the info?”

“I ju st checked the trips page.

Let me work on this (and der wife!)”

“Where are those Democrats that prefer Bush? I think they're overdue for some electroshock therapy.

Zell Miller is a fucking scumbag... just like his admirers.

Any questions? LOL”

“Did Tilt just say "#&%!$ing"?”

“Listen. Nader is just doing what he has to do. He has to get on the ballot. He is perfectly justified in doing it any legal way he can.

If I were a Green voter, I would wait for another month, hoping that Republicans would give Nader and other Greens money and ballot assistance.

Then, I would trade that Presidential vote. Vote Green at lower levels for ballot access and make a deal with a Democrat. Vote for Kerry and have the Democrat vote Green in a lower election. This would maximize the chance for ballot access.

You would maximize the Green potential of your vote. The fact that it would help a guy like me get Kerry elected should be of no consequence, although I would feel pretty good about helping send the "shot across the bow" to the establishment with a lower level Green vote.

Trade that vote.”

“Saying it isn't nearly as much fun as doing it, but Hey! LOL”

“Good point, RL. I have a problem with this, however. Tbe Greens are not a very strong party to begin with. I think that we both agree with that. From my experiance with some Greens in my area (Mr. Tom Ness and Co.), they are not the best organized group of people and at least in my area, are concidered "wacked out old hippies", not that there is anything wrong with that :)

The reputation of this party is nt very good. Now, if your suggesting just using them in a vote trade off, I think it could work, but I think that most of the Greens are hip to the notion that Bush is running funding their cause. I like the idea of a vote trade off like you mentioned, but geez, I just don't know about this.

Plus, the Greens aren't even running Nader, he's running Reform here in Michigan. So why not talk to them (talk about a swing). What about the Libertarians?

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think the Greens are the way to go. Maybe the "US Taxpayers" ? :)


And to Mr. Busk. You just don't get it. What you are saying would protect states rights is something you must've gotten on Sunday.

The Full faith and honor clause is something that keeps federalsim alive and to take that away would rip this country apart, as the door would be open for every state to go back and print their own money. It would mena that ever states laws would apply to non-residents and total bad news would insue. Do a little homework on how our government works and get back to us, k?”

“Thanks for the info Rev. It appears that you are correct.

This info was emailed to me. Here is the website that the info came from:

http://www.ohiolan.com/political_guest.htm

The Ohio.com appears to be a conservative propaganda website. Man that’s disgusting when folks pass off bogus info as “truth”. You are correct when you say I’m misinformed. You would have been incorrect to assume that I believed the article. I live by the mantra “Question Authority.” I threw this emailed info out there and you provided the refutation. THAT’S THE WAY IT’S SUPPOSED TO WORK! Gosh you remind me of violin.


Here is Olson’s site where he says that the quotes attributed to him are bogus:

http://www.hamline.edu/law/faculty/olson.shtml


Thank you for doing the research. I should have done it myself. “Too busy” isn’t a good excuse when I’m posting bogus info.”

“It happens to the best of us, Arc. There is a lot to sift through out there in cyber-land.”

“Gator fans unite!”

“Burt Reynolds is Gator.”

“Goth Gaitors?”

“I knew there was some underlying reason I think Kerry stinks.”

“He's a Democrat, I can smell him from here!”

“Since when is it bad to pass of bogus misinformation as fact? Democrats do it all the time.”

“I hear ya, NoProb. That whole thing about us going into Iraq because of WMD wasa real low thing for the Dems to pull......






Ooopps! My bad, wrong party...”

“Does anyone know why we never hear about sKerry’s push for a conclusion to the POW/MIA issue in Vietnam? Why would he do this? Is there anything fishy about the fact that as soon as we re established ties with them the company Colliers International landed a $905 million contract with Vietnam? Is it because the CEO of Colliers International is C. Stewart Forbes? Who’s he? Why he’s sKerry’s cousin.”

“What a joke. Bush appoints polluters' lobbyists to the agencies that are supposed to be regulating them, so you try to dig up scraps on the competition.

I guess if you support a polluting piece of crap like Bush, you're compelled to lash out.”

“"Burt Reynolds is Gator"

Tilt - You are misinformed (again):

He is an FSU Seminole alum. But thanks for the opening Gracy.”

“"What a joke. Bush appoints polluters' lobbyists to the agencies that are supposed to be regulating them, so you try to dig up scraps on the competition."

Why don't sKerry fans ever focus on their man? They never want to talk about him unless THEY bring him up. Every responce to his record being brought up gets an automatic, "Yeah but Bush...". And scraps? $905 million scraps more like it.”

“I love a good boxing match.



Now, lets even things out a bit...



Ding, ding! Now come out fighting!!!”