Single wall tents & condensation

“Phil, in answer to your question way up there... yes, I can sit up in the Dart. The Aero looked like an improvement with more side vents (the Dart has small side vents)

Single wall has it's place for lightness. I took a 3 man Sierra Designs Light__? up to Yoho just for myself last summer, though. More weight but I could hang up my wet laundry and roll around more!”

“Thanks again everyone for all the remarks and insights. I think I am going to go look at the Waypoint at Sport Chalet. If I do go for it, I will still be considering both models.

I am hoping to get my weekend pack weight down to 28 lbs with food and some water. Shaving off a few more pounds will be expensive.

DeoreDX - Thanks for the gear list. It is time I updated mine, which is a link on the Photo page to an Excel spreadsheet anyone can download and use. Tell me about your sleeping bag. How do you like it? Do you use two sleeping pads?

Sol - If you are an old geezer, what does that make me?

I'm excited about my P2 coming...can't wait.”

“I absolutly love my sleeping bag. It's my favorite piece of gear. It's actually a Megalite with 2oz of overfill (the reason it's 1lb 11oz instead of 1lb 8oz). I've used it comfortably down to 19 degrees, and I'm a cold sleeper. The Pertex Quantum shell is silkier and has a nicer hand then my very nice silk bag liner. I'l still amazed how much loft this thing has. I was looking at the Marmot Hydrogen, Mountainsmith Wisp, Moonstone Ludic, and the Mountain Hardwear Phantom. After playing with them all I picked the WM because of the greater ammount of loft and the best anti-snag zipper guard of the bunch. Only reason I got the 2oz of overfill was because I got a grat deal on it ($245 new).

Instead of a full length self-inflating pad or a full length ridgerest I use a 3/4 length self inflating and a 30" section of ridgerest. I use the cut-down section of ridgerest to roll around the inside of my frameless packs and keep my self-inflating pad rolled up inside the pack. It gives me some good flexibility. I enjoy the comfort of the inflating pad, and the ridgeret piece is good for sitting/laying around camp before I turn in for the night.”

“I don't know about single-wall tents, but I do know that even when I pitch my tarp A-frame style, I still get condensation on it. I can't imagine that a single-wall tent would be any different, if it was made out of waterproof material.

Skully, people falling on your tent? When? lol...”

“At Trail Days, in Damascus. There was a drunk there who really should have listened to his friends and gone to sleep it off in the back of the truck. He ended up in the drunk tank for the rest of the night (not our doing) and was very bitter about it the rest of the weekend. It's just a good thing he didn't damage the tent. Things would have been much worse for him.”

“I remember, I was just funnin' ya...”

“I thought maybe you'd forgotten it. I never will. I've never had to work so hard to save some drunk stranger's life. I've also never seen G00SE so mad. Apparently having someone land on him in the middle of the night makes him cranky. I have no idea why...

Of course if he had damaged the tent then I would have been the one who was cranky...”

“'k... I GLISTEN then..... LOL!”

“I've never had condensation problems with my Integral Designs MK1 Lite Tent (single-wall) or my Integral Designs Salathe Bivy. They are both suitable for 4-season use.”

“I say again, I LOVE my Henry Shires TarpTent!

Best $ I ever spent on a tent.”

“wingding,
Went over to the Integral Designs site to look at the tents. The standard MK1 Lite was $450 and the one made out of eVent was over $500. Steep. It didn't tell you how much they weighed. Have you weighed yours?”

“StoveStomper,
I just went over to the HS tarptent site and it's impressive. I like the Cloudburst. Big for the weight and no problem with ventilation. With the beak it looks like it would weather a storm well. What I really liked was how taut the thing pitched. Is yours that tight?”

“My Cloudburst pitches that tight. and it's by far the easiest shelter I have ever had to pitch, even faster to pitch then a Hennessey hammock (though not faster then a HH with snake skins). I've raced my hiking partner setting up shelters several times.

”

“Damn... I always screw up my image tags. src not hrc!!!!!

”

“DeoreDX,
Do you have the sewn-in floor on yours? If so, how is the insect mesh attached? Is it sewn to the tarp and the floor?”

“I have the sewn in floor. The original version it relied only on the overlap from the floor and mesh to keep the bugs out. I found this to be effective. He does now offer a zipper to zip the floor to the door at the cost of an additional few bucks and 3/4 oz.”

“My MK1 Lite weighs 3 lbs 11 ounces w/o the stuff sack and the new one made with the Event fabric is supposed to be 3 lbs 5 ounces, but I think that includes the stuff sack.”

“Thanks for the info wingding. They're light and 4-season too. Do you use it on all your trips?

Phil,
Did you check out these Henry Shire TarpTents? They look pretty good and lots of space. You were in that hail storm back in '99. What do you think? Nigal was and he was using some kind of tarp. Don't remeber much about it. I don't think it had a floor.

Nigal comments?”

“Yes, my TarpTent pitches very taut and weathered a Georgia afternoon blowing rainstorm very well.

It came a hard rain a couple of weeks ago at Ocala, FL and not a drop got inside.”

“StoveStomper,
I'm almost convinced that I should buy a Cloudburst with floor. From what you guys say it will do a good keeping the rain and bugs away from me. BUT since the floor is not a tub floor I worry about water flowing inside the tent. You would have to be very careful when siting this tent. Pitch it in a natural drain and you could wind up in a difficult situation. I say that because I was inside my tent during the aforementioned hail storm and I had water flowing under the bottom of my tent. I wasn't in a particularly bad spot either. It was your typical tent site in the sierra. The rain and hail were just coming down that fast. It was spooky and I was inside! Phil can tell the story of those caught outside. When it was over it looked like it had snowed.

I wonder if Shires will do a tub floor option? I should e-mail him.”

“SH - I doubt Henry will do a tub floor because the side netting is a design feature to reduce inside condensation.
Siteing is important for any tarp or tent.”

“He's right, there are times when it doesn't matter how high and dry you pitched it, you're going to get wet. This is why G00SE got a bathtub floor for the 'Mid for Christmas.”

“Bathtub floor should and imho is a no issue. I would never pitch any tent, tub floor or not, in the middle of a runoff.”

“Memories of the S.S. Thermarest at Trail Days, skully?”

“Shut up bitpusher : - D . No, actully I'm thiking of those prolonged heavy rains that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Once the surrounding surface soil gets saturated (Try saying that ten times fast!), the condensation becomes irrelevant to the sponge forming under your stuff.”

“Sorry. thiking = thinking”

“One angle that hasn't been covered here seems to be materials. The Sierra Designs Divine Lightning is constructed of something that seems quite similar to "ToddTex," a fabric that is rumored to allow water vapor to pass through (used in Bibler's single-wall tents). Design-wise, it's very much like their LightYear and Ultra LightYear.

I have used it here in the Sunny South the last few years, even in Summer, and have had noticable condensation only a couple of times.... and it was just a tiny amount --- just enough to notice.

It'a a nice tent, though it's on the small side (18-19 sq. ft.). There's just enough room for me to sit up in it.


I found these photos the other day where this guy constructed a small tarp to use as a vestibule.”

“Phil...I have a P-2 and I love it. Even got my name put on it. The belt is fine, very comfortable. I really over loaded it the first time and it did great. Call Brian on the phone and talk to him, he answers his own phone. Just tell him that his friends in nashville asked you to call. The tent I would recommend is the Wanderlust Nomad 2-4-2. It is 45 square feet of space and has a bathtub floor and has the best ventalation of any tent mentioned. The bad thing about it is that you have to wait months to get one. It is awesome and thiniing about getting one myself. I have been in one that a friend of mine has. He Hiked the AT a couple of years ago.”

“DeoreDX,
I went back over to the HS site and looked at his gallery photos. Two pictures stood out to me as typical sierra campsites. They were:

1) Virga in Darwin Canyon, CA by
Jay Zimmerman

2) Virga at Virginia Lake, CA by Tom Krizay.

I would say that both sites are very good examples of a high sierra campsite.

The first one is level and that makes it a premium location. But notice that everything around it on three sides is higher. In a good hard rain water is going through that site.

The second site is sloped. A hard rain coming off the low side of any tarp facing uphill would flow through that site.

On a 5 day trip I could almost guarantee that you would camp in spot just like one of those sites.

I'd love to try a TarpTent out and have a bivy sack as a method of keeping my sleeping bag dry. But then I'd be back up in the higher weight range. I guess it's all a matter of acceptable risk. Right now I'm not quite there. Maybe by this summer when my back is killing me ..... but just not right now.”

“I tend to use the bivy mostly these days, but in the snow it's the MK1 Lite.”

“SS..."hard rain" in Ocala? Were you on the same trip I was on?? LOL! I was awake while it was sprinkling and then starting raining more heavily. BUT I wouldn't call that a heavy rain. Just normal... and not much wind either. (Or did I fall asleep to the rain and worse stuff came later?>)”

“Just packing for the weekend, headed to the coast up here in Northern CA. I'm taking my Bibler I Tent, single wall, just about 4 lbs with stakes, stuff sack. True 4-season, bombproof, I've never had a condensation problem. I'm usually in the Sierra, but sometimes along the coast. Thought of you Phil, it's supposed to rain most of the weekend, I'm planning on being toasty-comfy & dry in my Bibler!

I should add that I usually don't take it in the summer, most of the time just my Bivy so I can keep weight down. I'm getting too old to lug all the toys & frivolous stuff I used to!”

“Stephenson Warmlite 2R is 2 lb 13 oz, 4-season, 42 sq ft. Single wall on the ends, double wall on the rest. Just got my 2nd one in the mail but have to seam seal it. My first one has about 300 days on it and the zippers are not staying zipped. I'll have it repaired and keep it as a spare.

If I have condensation, I'll ask whoever else is around if they have it, and the answer is usually yes. If solo, usually no condensation. If SnowDude is with me we get some, depending on conditions. Just used the old one for a snow camp this weekend and didn't have any condensation or snow inside. Kept me nice and toasty.”

“Snow,
I love those tents and the fact that they're American made tugs on my heart. But because I've just ordered a new sleeping bag, the wiser part of my married life might not agree with the price tag.

I have tried to use the tact of "I'm thinking of selling all my BPing gear and buying a Harley-Davidson Fatboy". Sadly that angle of attack has been used once too often. All she says now is "Well you've got good insurance, I'll be able to travel and live comfortably."

One day I may own a Warmlite 5R. And I can only dream that it will be filled with nude female wood nymphs. But as for now..... my pricepoint is $250. And this sad fact relegates me to consider shelters of the lesser realm.”

“Miss Smarty Pants Lizs - I woke to what sounded like a hard rain. Never opened my eyes, and went right back to sleep because I knew I was not gonna have to worry about getting wet in my great TarpTent. ;-)”

“I'll look into the Wanderlust Nomad.

I'm generally not into tarps, although Nigal's tarp on the first Llama Trip served him well. I like a tent with a floor and no bugs allowed. A tent also protects me from the weather, bears and the boogie man.

SN - I keep looking at the Stephenson's, but the pricetag gets me.

The waypoint 1 is 2 lbs 2 ounces and I can get it at 25% off through my son.”

“MH is known to be horribly innacurate with their weight measurements of some of their tents. I know two people with WP1's which weighed 7-9oz over their claimed weight... which seems to be the norm. The claimed weight of my tarptent with sewn in floro was 32 + 6 = 38oz. Mine came in a 37.6oz in the included stuff sack with all the stakes and stake bag.”

“DeoreDX - I will be sure to check the weight of the Waypoint when I look at it. I think they have a scale at the store (my son works there).”

“Managed to weigh a Waypoint2 this pass weekend. It weighed in at 3 lbs and 12 oz. That included all attached tags/papers, plastic bags, stuuf sack, etc. Didn't get to see one set up.”

“Phil- The BOOGIEMAN? I thought I was the only one who worried about him!! I think the Waypoint is Boogiemanproof.”

“When will we ever accept condensation as a water source???”

“if you got it ...... it cuts down on condensation considerable.

choking for air in chicago”

“trailtrekker - Maybe we could start a "boogieman" support group!!
Truth is, as a kid I was more afraid of Santa Claus. I was traumatized by "...he sees you when you're sleeping. He sees you when you're awake..." It took me years get over it. My tent protects me from all that stuff.

My son weighed the Waypoint 1 at work yesterday on a digital scale. 3 lbs. It was in a stuff sack and may have had a bottle of seam sealer and owner's manual in there as well. But those things are probably 3 ounces. My son also said he said he talked to a customer who really liked his Waypoint 1.

If it was really closer to 2 lbs, I would snap it up. Now I am not sure.”

“http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/terra/lightweight.shtml




anyone ever tried or seen any of these in use???”

“It would be nice if they would give you the price right beside the blurb on the tent. Look like British made knockoffs of Hilleberg and Mountain Hardwear tents. Probably more expensive.”