John Kerry for President!!!!!

“He's camera shy, I'll try this again.

”

“VP
”

“In case anyone missed it.

BIG NEWS -



Bush and Kerry were the winners in the Idaho primaries.”

“LOL!”

“Bawhahahaha! I love how liberals have these dark, blacked out glasses on all the time and try to convince everyone we are but one misstep from the abyss. They try so hard to create this self fulfilling prophetic nation…"If I just keep saying 'The end is near' long enough they'll believe it.". I know you guy’s will try and paint me as sticking my head in the sand because I don’t run around like Chicken Little saying the sky is falling but I refuse to put on your sack cloth and ashes and sit on the curb lamenting.


It’s play #4 out of the liberal handbook…Don’t have an actual agenda or plan to sell? Just attack! Doom and gloom! Gloom and doom!”

“Boy, nigal. That was packed with relevence and fact. I'm convinced.

I'm voting Bush!”

“That was easy enough. Next up, Violin. Nigal, it's go time!”

“See, Nigal showed me that pointing out the obvious deficiencies in the leadership we currently have is nothing more than negativity! Liberals are negative, and so everyone who doesn't vote for Bush is a liberal and liberals are negative therefore you don't want to be a negative liberal so vote for Bush! It's all so clear now!”

“Should I begin with the liberal latent homosexual tendencies?”

“Oh please do! I need to understand my new outlook on politics and life. Tell me, Nigal. Show me the way.”

“No Phaed, I was trying to show that everything goes back to hating Bush for you guys. Any time something gets brought up about Kerry you guys go straight back to Bush. And I was giddy when I saw you were the first one to do it here. It is as effective as when you are critical of Bush and Strat chimes in and says, “Oh yeah! Well Clinton got a blow job in the Oval Office!”. LOL!

I can accept criticism of the president. Doesn’t bother me at all. But it’s armchair coaches that try and degrade, smear, and discredit Bush at every single turn in order to try and sway opinion. Even making fun of the way he pronounces a word. You guys have created your own reality.

And for all these posts you and the Cronies make bashing Bush there is no solution given. You guys give nothing of substance as to what the Democrats would do to make it all better.”

“Yes, I've given plenty of examples of what I think would make it better. It seems that those threads are the ones that the (I'm making this label up right now) "potshotters" bail on after the first few posts.

As for the Kerry/Bush race - it's a two way race, despite what nader folks would have you believe, and it makes it obvious that everything one does should be compared to the other up until the race is over.

After the president ahs been decided, comparisons to the former president become silly.

Call it negativity if you want, but it seems like valid criticism to me, for the most part.”

“"Yes, I've given plenty of examples of what I think would make it better. It seems that those threads are the ones that the (I'm making this label up right now) "potshotters" bail on after the first few posts.”

Like the one where you make parallels between the speech given by a terrorist and Bush’s? Yeah, that one was great. Very informative.

“As for the Kerry/Bush race - it's a two way race, despite what nader folks would have you believe, and it makes it obvious that everything one does should be compared to the other up until the race is over.”

I prefer to compare what Kerry says and what does. Every single waffle and lie gets answered with, “Yeah but…Yeah but!”.

“Call it negativity if you want, but it seems like valid criticism to me, for the most part."

Of course it does! You’re a liberal! It all seems very reasonable to a liberal! LOL!”

“Like the one where you make parallels between the speech given by a terrorist and Bush’s? Yeah, that one was great. Very informative.


Nigal, are you purposely distorting what I wrote, or are you just so involved in your own bias that you don't notice that you're distorting? I paralelled his statements with the rhetoric of some of the people on this board, not with Bush's speech.

prefer to compare what Kerry says and what does. Every single waffle and lie gets answered with, “Yeah but…Yeah but!”.

For instance?

Of course it does! You’re a liberal! It all seems very reasonable to a liberal! LOL!

Uh... yeah. I know too many people who criticize Bush from the conservative side to make this completely true.”

“I’m getting pretty sick of people trying to turn Bush’s obvious incompetence into some sort of character flaw on my part. He’s #&%!$ed just about everything he’s touched and proven that he’s not fit to lead the country. The ‘grown-ups’ that he surrounded himself with to make up for his lack of foreign policy experience or basic intellectual curiosity have been flat out proven to be naïve ideologues. Pointing this out makes me a ‘hater’ and a ‘terrorist supporter’ - as if my thoughts and words caused the mess we’re in today, not the administration’s misguided and uninformed actions.

Get real. Bush had his chance - he had unprecedented support and he just plain screwed up - BIG TIME. Now that all but the most delusional or overt partisan can see that we’re on a very wrong path, you really need to learn to listen for a change.”

“Conservative thought lacks the critical componant of context. For example, when Nigal makes a statement that Kerry waffles, he doesn't point out the context of the alleged waffeling. (i.e. Bush has waffled according to Nigal's definition (nation building), Kerry is married to a rich woman worth a fortune, well, Bush is rich too, but Kerry's ideals and the way he puts them into action make a difference (Vietnam, backing Koyto Treaty, champioing worker's rights). Also, many of the things that Kerry has voted for or agianst in the past, that he may be perceieved as for or against now is taken out of context: (voting for the war (misled), voting down "money for the troops" (part of a pork barrel package aimed at making politicians look bad if they vote it down in order to turn damaging policies into law). Kerry, and politicians like McCain also have the ability to change thier opinions based on overall change, as long as it's in accordnace to their ideals.

As many of you know, I used to lean republican on many of these issues, but I fianally took the time to do what I should have done a long time ago, but never cared to...... I put myself in the oppositions shoes, took myself away from the banter, and educated myself. AFter this process, I found that I agreed with the opposition, and hope to get others to embark on the same process I went through.”

“have been flat out proven to be naïve ideologues

You haven't proven it, not by a longshot.”

“Proof: Chalabi-gate.”

“Ah, you're confusing tactics with strategy. The strategy is already working, as I've repeatedly pointed out. The tactical situation in Iraq is, alas, not going so well.”

““I paralelled his statements with the rhetoric of some of the people on this board, not with Bush's speech.”

My bad. You didn’t explain that when you posted it. Sorry.

As for the waffling thing, I haven’t seen a single liberal on here admit that Kerry is a liar when he’s been stone cold busted. I even showed his own words where he admitted to being a war criminal (and it wasn’t third person Senate testimony) to laqtis and all he did was bltch about the source. When I showed the actual source was NBC he skirted the whole thing. So did everyone else.

OK guys, say it all together…”Yeah but…but…but Bush…but Bush…but Bush…”.

:P”

“As for the waffling thing, I haven’t seen a single liberal on here admit that Kerry is a liar when he’s been stone cold busted. I even showed his own words where he admitted to being a war criminal (and it wasn’t third person Senate testimony) to laqtis and all he did was bltch about the source. When I showed the actual source was NBC he skirted the whole thing. So did everyone else.

Actually, you'll notice that I pointed out that, in the context he referred to war crimes, everyone who fought in vietnam would have been a war criminal. I'm not excusing his participation, but do you propose eliminating every vietnam vet from running for office?”

“"Actually, you'll notice that I pointed out that, in the context he referred to war crimes, everyone who fought in vietnam would have been a war criminal. I'm not excusing his participation, but do you propose eliminating every vietnam vet from running for office?"

Every vietnam vet is NOT a war criminal. And yes, I believe that all war criminals should be disallowed from running.”

“Can you point out in the transcript

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

what exactly causes you to call him a war criminal?”

“"I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these acts, I find out later on, are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty."

In fact, most all of the soldiers on the US side would be guilty of following at least one order like this if they ever saw combat.

Here's a transcript of him talking about it with Tim Russert. He hasn't tried to hide anything that I can tell.

I don't condone the things he has admitted to, but that was vietnam as a whole.”

“And further, the Likud party is guilty of each of these things within the past month. I support Israel in its battle against the terrorists, but their tactics need to be revisited.”

“Sorry, it is indefensible.”

“By the way, that quote is incorrect... I should be more careful where I cut from.

SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
”

“"Sorry, it is indefensible."
Nigal
04:23:11 PM
05/26/04


How so? You claim that you would not have all those who participated in combat in Vietnam held out of public office, but you would hold Kerry out?”

“Is it because he spoke out about these practices that makes you want to hold him out of public office?”

“This is on the false statement and assumption that ALL Vietnam vets are guilty of war crimes.

Still indefensible. If you let Kerry off the hook you are condoning the Iraqi abusers as well. Indefensible.

Hey, 45 posts and no one wants to talk about Kerry’s gas guzzling, ozone hole expanding private jumbo jet? What up?”

“I didn't let him "off the hook". I just pointed out that what he took part in was a common and officially condoned proactice in the vietnam conflict. If you apply this to him, then all the others who were in the same position should be treated equally. Really, without more detail as to what he did specifically that was a crime, we're just speculating anyway. He may have fired in free fire zones and not killed anyone, and burned empty villages, for instance. I'd be interested in a full detail what he considered criminal at the time of the quote.

As for the plane: He's running for president. He's got a need to get around quickly, but I agree with you that he should, at least, be using a smaller plane. The SUV thing is stupid. He shouldn't be yakking about it if he owns one.”

“You can present this a million diffent ways but, "Just following orders.", doesn't do it for me. He admitted to crimes of war, irregaurdless of the extreme of the crime or the outcome. He admitted it with his own mouth.”

“Also, if the soldiers at Abu Ghraib prove that it was an officially sactioned practice, I think they should recieve lighter sentences and their commanders should be given harsher ones.”

“"You can present this a million diffent ways but, "Just following orders.", doesn't do it for me. He admitted to crimes of war, irregaurdless of the extreme of the crime or the outcome. He admitted it with his own mouth."
Nigal
04:50:19 PM
05/26/04


So I'll ask you again: Should all those who engaged in the things he's admitted to be kept from public office?”

“I said yes already. And yes, this includes both sides of the isle. If they admit to it, or have been found guilty of it.”

“While Jane Fonda might agree with you, I don't. These soldiers were doing the best they could in a tough situation with a set of orders that did not consider the legality of the action involved. I applaud Kerry's service and his honesty about the situation after he got back.

I think he should have objected while he was there, and have said so. If he had, however, that would be used against him by the chickenhawks as well.

As it stands, he and Chuck Hagel John McCain and all the others who served in vietnam only to come home to be called baby killers and war criminals have my support.

Vietnam was a tragedy of planning ideology and morality, but blaming the individual participants is not something I can, in good conscience, do.”

“I don't understand the statement that the use of .50 cal weapons were against the Geneva conventions.”

“I know we have a few Jews who backpack. Jewish voters are historically Democratic.

How many Jews who voted for Clinton will vote for Bush, based upon his mideast policies? Democracy in the mideast is part of President Bush's solution to the Arab/Israeli crisis.

Christofacists want to know.”

“I was a Jew until I became famous.”

“What Kerry said on Meet the Press, April 18, 2004


(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: You committed atrocities.

SEN. KERRY: Where did all that dark hair go, Tim? That's a big question for me. You know, I
thought a lot, for a long time, about that period of time, the things we said, and I think the word is a bad word. I think it's an inappropriate word. I mean, if you wanted to ask me have you ever made mistakes in your life, sure. I think some of the language that I used was a language that reflected an anger. It was honest, but it was in anger, it was a little bit excessive.

MR. RUSSERT: You used the word "war criminals."

SEN. KERRY: Well, let me just finish. Let me must finish. It was, I think, a reflection of the kind of times we found ourselves in and I don't like it when I hear it today. I don't like it, but I want you to notice that at the end, I wasn't talking about the soldiers and the soldiers' blame, and my great regret is, I hope no soldier--I mean, I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them. But the words were honest but on the other hand, they were a little bit over the top. And I think that there were breaches of the Geneva Conventions. There were policies in place that were not acceptable according to the laws of warfare, and everybody knows that. I mean, books have chronicled that, so I'm not going to walk away from that. But I wish I had found a way to say it in a less abrasive way.”

“Huh? Did he say anything?”

“I'm not sure really.


How about these 'doom & gloom' Chicken Little Bush haters?:

"Well, that's right, he did drive us into a ditch." - William Kristol

"This administration cannot be trusted to govern if it cannot be counted on to think and, having thought, to have second thoughts." - George F. Will

"I think it’s a total nightmare and disaster, and I’m ashamed that I went against my own instincts in supporting it. It’s something I’ll never do again. Never. I got convinced by a friend of mine who’s smarter than I am, and I shouldn’t have done that. No. I want things to work out, but I’m enraged by it, actually." - Tucker Carlson

"The war has been run incompetently, with an apparently deliberate contempt for history, strategy and thought, and with too little regard for the American soldier, whose mounting casualties seem to have no effect on the boastfulness of the civilian leadership." - Mark Helprin

"The president talked about being humble when he was running for office but the opposite seems to be true." - Sen. Lincoln Chafee

"We're letting the political hacks overrule the policy wonks in this town." - Dick Armey

"I think you've got a president who is not schooled, educated, experienced in foreign policy in any way, versus his father." - Sen. Chuck Hagel

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this. There has been poor operational planning and execution on the ground. And to think that we are going to 'stay the course,' the course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit, or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course. Because it's been a failure." - Retired Gen. Anthony Zinni

"(I)t's not too early to begin thinking about what was clearly an intellectual failure. There was, above all, a failure to understand the consequences of American power.... America went into Iraq with what, in retrospect, seems like a childish fantasy." - David Brooks”

“"I know we have a few Jews who backpack. Jewish voters are historically Democratic.

How many Jews who voted for Clinton will vote for Bush, based upon his mideast policies? Democracy in the mideast is part of President Bush's solution to the Arab/Israeli crisis."

This is something that has always mystified me bacpac. Judaism focuses so much on the strength of family and family values. Not in the sense that they want to force their doctrine on the nation but at a more micro level. I think a factor could be the level of observance of American Jews. The largest movement in America is the Reform movement which is fairly liberal and not too observant. Still, you’d think they’d prefer the economic policies of the right over the tax tax tax of the left. All stereo types aside. LOL!

I’ve been meaning to ask this question on the Jewish board I frequent.”

“Reverend Kerry Dogg”

“There goes Violin again. Letting others form his opinions and views.”

“"Democracy in the mideast is part of President Bush's solution to the Arab/Israeli crisis."

Bush doesn't have a plan other than "securing" petroleum reserves.

"Installing democracy" has a nice ring to some people, but cannot be done.

Real democracy works from the bottom up, not the top down.

"....you’d think they’d prefer the economic policies of the right over the tax tax tax of the left. All stereo types aside."

That "tax, tax, tax" bit is tired old rhetoric.

The economic policies of the right are inherantly unfair and un-democratic and only increase the gap between rich and poor.

....same old same old.....”

““That "tax, tax, tax" bit is tired old rhetoric.”

The left has a long history of taxation. It ain’t rhetoric, it’s history.

“The economic policies of the right are inherantly unfair and un-democratic and only increase the gap between rich and poor.”

And you call my comment rhetoric? You obviously have a different concept of rhetoric.”

“I speak the truth, Ni-jello.

Both parties have taxed the public.

The Repubs have tried to tar Demos as the only taxers on earth and it ain't true.

The party of the ruling class serves the ruling class, no matter how you spin it.”

“Bush doesn't have a plan other than "securing" petroleum reserves.

And once again, Mark shows his inability to understand strategy. After the war, most Arab regimes are openly cooperating with the U.S. Do you think AQ is happy about that, in light of their goal to effect political change in the region?

But, you'll have some risible non-sequitur dismissal of this and continue to vomit forth your "Bush has no plan but to steal oil" b.s.”