The Passion

“Yes, and the exclusivity thing is something I really struggle with. Say you're a Chinaman that grew up Buddhist and that's been the only exposure you've had to religon. Is he going to hell? Don't see how. Boy is that guy gonna be freaked out when he gets to Heaven. Yes, that's a simplistic example, but one we've all wondered about.”

“Ahh,, I thought, Grease was the word!!”

“and im no scholar myself, i just want ppl like you to stop quashing debate. ppl should be able to discuss what scripture means to them without ppl like you always insisting they are blasphemers.”

“Dayhiker, the fundamentalist will tell you that those who never had contact with christianity/jesus should be able to find their way to God through "general revelation", or what they can observe around them. But once they hear of Jesus' "special revelation" and choose not to believe, they are going to hell.”

“In other words, who do I believe, the book or the reality of God? And yes, they are different to me (and who are you to say what His will is for me?).

Phaedrus, these are good questions and they are questions that only YOU can answer. No one can answer them for you. The questions you ask is why we're here in the first place. There is a lot at stake with your final answer.

As for me, God has revealed Himself through the Word, as the Bible says. If anything is contrary to the written Word, then for me it is not from God. There are a lot of spiritual forces at work to decieve us with "feelings". Do we go with "feelings" and hunches, or go with the concrete written Word of God. They cannot contradict themselves without you asking the questions you are asking. I chose the Word. I am a fallible man, a sinner, subject to my own feelings, perceptions, and ideas. These can change with time and circumstances. God never changes and He knows all. I think I'll take His word for it, not mine. That's the conclusion I personally came to.

No one can decide either way for you other than yourself. Which do you choose. It is between Phaedrus and God.”

“The explaination I was given for that one when I was studying fundamentalism was that they get a free pass until the ONE time the hear of Jesus Christ. After that, it's be christian or go to hell.”

“Place yer bets!!!”

“Yes, exactly, phaedrus, like the mere mention of "jesus" is supposed to inspire people to learn more about it.”

“Dunny your doomed. Get in line please.”

“Yes, that's what my wife, who grew up Southern Baptist believes. I can honestly say I don't know what I fully believe on that one.


TGIF, I'm outta here. I'll probably check back on this circus over the weekend.”

“Fie upon you and all your spawn.

Wine is the ONLY true path to PORN.


Beer and Cigarettes are false idols.



YOu will perish in the bowels of hell for all eternity with only pious bible thumpers for company.



I, on the other hand, will ascend to the throne of Ron Jeremy and Marilyn Chambers . . .to spend eternity in the company of hos, strippers and porn stars.”

“I think Mutt hit on why I have a problem with that.”

“I'm pretty sure Buck just told me I'm going to hell.

Which do you choose. It is between Phaedrus and God."
Buck
03:36:28 PM
02/20/04


This would be considered a judgement, would it not? You have just judged that my faith in God (whatever else his plans for me) cannot be contrary to the Bible. Who do I believe, you or God?”

“If you don't believe in God why worry about hell.”

“no, its not, because im advocating for debate. your advocating an exclusivity on TRUTH"
... i just want ppl like you to stop quashing debate.

???? StormBringer, I'm just sharing my views on the subject like everyone else. I'm not trying to brainwash you, ha ha! If you don't like 'em, fine. Does one have to question his faith in order to qualify for your discussion? Believe as you want, I'm just sharing what I believe. Don't worry, I don't think you're trying to quash my thoughts or brainwash me in the process.

Are you not saying there are multiple paths to "Truth"? Who are you to say that's "true"? I don't get your reasoning, StormBringer. Is it "true" there are many ways to God, or is it "true" there is only one way to God? Either way, you're advocating a truth.”

“Hey Briar, who said I didn't believe in God?”

“I'm pretty sure Buck just told me I'm going to hell.

Uhhh... Phaed, that's rather ridiculous. I never said you're going to hell. I couldn't send you to hell even if I tried, ha ha! Do you think I have THAT much power, that I can send people to hell or not, based on what I believe? I think not. I can't send you to heaven either. These are the roles of God. Don't make me God, I sure don't want the job!

This would be considered a judgement, would it not? You have just judged that my faith in God (whatever else his plans for me) cannot be contrary to the Bible. Who do I believe, you or God?"

Not so, Phaed. You ask, who do I believe, me or God? I say, whatever you do, leave ME out of the equation! That's between YOU and God, I have no say or power in the matter, thank you. But to answer your question as a fallible being, just some personal advice, I'd say believe God, not Buck! :^D”

“Excellent! You're sayig that each person has his own individual relationship with God. Am I right?”

“"Yes, and the exclusivity thing is something I really struggle with. Say you're a Chinaman that grew up Buddhist and that's been the only exposure you've had to religon. Is he going to hell? Don't see how. Boy is that guy gonna be freaked out when he gets to Heaven. Yes, that's a simplistic example, but one we've all wondered about."

I personally feel that divine judgment is purely based upon perceived truth. The truth as you know it is what you are judged upon. I mean, how can you be judged otherwise? I find a common thread through most every religion that is love others as you would want to be loved. This is a part of Universal Truth. I know the all roads lead to G-d is not a popular one with Christians but… I really can’t believe that G-d would spread humankind to the four corners of the earth (Tower of Babel) and split mankind up, causing so many differences like language and culture and then say that every man woman and child must agree on the exact nature and being of G-d or face eternal punishment.

The theme that I find interesting through this whole thread is the “heaven and hell” theme. It’s all about paradise or damnation. It’s black or it’s white. A divine concept is so far outside of our reach of comprehension that even written holy scripture can’t even come close. There is far more gray to G-d than black or white.”

“LMAO @ lee”

“literal interpretation has been done to death. let someone else have a say.”

“I saw an interesting piece on Gibson. I knew he was like old school Catholic but DAMMMNNN!

**Mel Gibson has come under fire for being hard on Jews in his film “The Passion of the Christ” — but apparently, he feels that Protestants are also doomed to damnation. In fact, it looks like Gibson, a conservative Catholic, believes that his Episcopalian wife could be going to hell.

Gibson was interviewed by the Herald Sun in Australia, and the reporter asked the star if Protestants are denied eternal salvation. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.”

He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”**

He also went on to discuss his reason for making the movie...

**Gibson also said in the interview that he was nearly suicidal before he made his controversial film. “I got to a very desperate place. Very desperate. Kind of jump-out-of-a-window kind of desperate,” he said in the interview. “And I didn’t want to hang around here, but I didn’t want to check out. The other side was kind of scary. And I don’t like heights, anyway. But when you get to that point where you don’t want to live, and you don’t want to die, it’s a desperate, horrible place to be. And I just hit my knees. And I had to use ‘The Passion of the Christ’ to heal my wounds.””

“By the way, am I the only one who envisions Buck typing responses with a handkerchief waving in the air and then bending over with arms out spinning around like an airplane between posts like the black tv preachers do? Is it just me?”

“My last post was in response to this:

Ha! StormBring, I find it amusing that long-held views, whether traditional views of this country since the founding, or the traditional views on Christianity over the centuries, is now all of a sudden "extremist views"! Ha ha! These are longheld, historical views that the vast majority of society knew to be true, and now they're extremist. Yes, George Washington and Abe Lincoln and all those dudes who founded this country would be considered ultra-right-wing extremists today! Ha ha!



Although today's christian conservatives would LIKE to believe that our founding fathers were pious men of religion.

They were stupid enough to be so. Thank God (hahahah, that was ironic).”

“I'm pretty sure Buck told me that we each have individual relationships to God. That said,

The One Commandment is:

Do what God tells you.”

“Damn.

I hit "back" and my first post didn't make it in.

Oh well.
Gotta run.


THERE IS NO GOD.”

“Ah, the lofty and well-paid pitbull Brent Bozell. If his checks were paid by the film industry, his story would flip instantaneously.

I was watching the so-called Media Research Center's year end festivities some time ago on C-SPAN. From all I can gather, the only 'research' they perform is to enable them to do hatchet jobs on political enemies. They were very well funded during the Clinton years, for example.

A few minutes after bestowing the award for the "Despicable Quote Of The Year," a bit of Liberal truth-telling they found to be unbearably painful, Bozell quipped that a certain person wasn't much of a human being, simply because he didn't agree with Bozell's politics. And the room full of tuxedoes cheered.

Quite ironic I thought. They were there ostensibly speaking out against 'despicable quotes,' not for the purpose of generating more.

Is this the type of hatemongering 'culture' he would perpetrate on this country? I wish he would keep it to himself.”

“what i mean by it being an extremist point of view, is that the pendulum of interpretation swings from complete and absolute fiction (laqtis) to complete and absolute truth (buck). i am in somewhere in between. its just that the "mainstream" believes the extremist view”

“thats an interesting quote, nigey. talk about a crisis of faith.”

“I'm pretty sure Buck told me that we each have individual relationships to God.

Ha ha! Oh man, Phaed! What I'm trying to tell you is that don't listen to Buck, listen to yourself. Don't let me get in the way between you and God. We all must ask our own questions and take responsibility for our own answers. I'm not telling you to do anything, nor should you care if that's what you think. I will let no man sway my thinking on God, it's too important. I can see you now, Phaed, at the judgment seat, just you and God, and you saying, "ahem, God, I would like to call a witness to the stand at this time please, a one Buck Forester, some guy I conversed with on an internet forum called Trail Talk." Ha ha! It ain't gonna work that way.

Phead, put your guard down, I ain't telling you what or what you can't do, nor do I have the authority to do so even if I did tell you where to go.

Now, can I go take a poop now, even though it might not pass your One Commandent, "Do what God tells you", because God didn't tell me to go poop, but I just really gotta go. Can I? Can I? :Þ

I love this place!”

“i am in somewhere in between. its just that the "mainstream" believes the extremist view"

Hmmm... mainstream extremism. Now there's a concept for ya!”

“Hey Stormbringer, lee® seems to be taking a rather staunch position that there is absolutely no God. Care to try and tell him he's "quashing" discussion too? Naw, no worries. It's cool.”

“just checked in from home. One thing to add to Nigal's post. Gibson's conversion happened 13 years ago.”

“Just when I get interesting in keeping up with this conversation, Buck decides he has to go #&%!$.


Is that divine intervention or what?”

“The One Commandment is:

Do what God tells you.

Well. Okay. But I once knew someone whose God told her to stab her siblings to death...

Somone else's God told him to stop her.

Thank God.”

“LMAO@CHILI!

If I could be so bold, this pagen heathen thinks religon is there to answer the unanswerable questions and to make death easier.

Things were so much better back in the days of Ra. One quick chicken dead on the alter could bring you years of happiness. What could be better?”

“God works in mysterious ways, Cindy, and as Buck has pointed out, we have no right nor authority to try to change the way in which other people see God. We can all only do what our individual conscience and spirituality tells us. If that runs parallel to the Bible, great. If not, great.

Buck agrees.”

“literal interpretation has been done to death. let someone else have a say.

I seem to be the only one out of the group here taking a literal interpretation. But you say it's been done to death? And for me to let someone else have a say? Am I not letting you say what you want to say, or Phaedrus, or lee, or Tilt, or Nigal, or Mutt, or Dunadan, or dayhiker, or Briar Rabbit, or laqtis, or chili, etc.? Apparently you and Phaed think I'm some sort of god, I can tell you where to go, and I can keep others from saying anything. Hmmmm.”

“Riiiiiight, Phaed. Uh huh.”

“Just remember, “DOG” spelled backward is “GOD.” As a responsible dog owner, I know I'm going to heaven.”

“God isn't dead... He's just napping.


(and he takes these reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally long naps)”

“You agreed already Buck. You're trapped by your own logic. You said it, not me.

Don't let me get in the way between you and God. We all must ask our own questions and take responsibility for our own answers. I'm not telling you to do anything, nor should you care if that's what you think. I will let no man sway my thinking on God, it's too important.”

“I'm pretty sure that anyone who posts to TT on a wireless laptop while pooping is going to hell.”

“What if you only read, but don't post?”

“and as Buck has pointed out... We can all only do what our individual conscience and spirituality tells us. If that runs parallel to the Bible, great. If not, great.

Phaed, that's like the complete opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't go by your own feelings, they'll deceive me. I thought I made that pretty clear.

If you fall madly in love with a girl and marry her, and then you wake up one day and don't have those gushy "feelings" of love at that moment, and you see another pretty girl and she gives you butterlies in your tummy and you screw her and cheat on your, and then realize what you did was stupid and that you truly loved your wife and not this other girl, just not at that particular moment, is it best to trust your "feelings" and emotions, or trust the "principle" and "committment" of love.

I say your feelings and emotions will fool you and trick you. We need to make decisions based on higher principles. That is why I choose the written Word of God rather than whatever feelings I may or may not have at any given moment or time. And I clearly stated that OUR feelings may very well contradict the written Word of God. Which is why I trust God, not my feelings. There are many things in the Bible that are contrary to my physical feelings that I must fight, just because I know its right. I often fail, but I often succeed. But that's not what redeems me anyway, it's my faith that Jesus is the Christ that redeems me.

I'm not telling you to believe this though. These are my own personal conclusions and I will stand before God based on them as my own personal decision.”

“Why do I all of a sudden feel the need to wash.....”

“Phaed, what does what you just quoted me as saying have anything to do with following feelings? Huh? Help me out here, bud. I don't mean bud like in flower, that would be gay. I mean bud like friend. :^D”

“I feel the need for a drink.


Does that mean I am going to hell too?”

“Did laqtis just take a dump? Ha ha!”

“The definition of spirituality I used encompasses conscience and morality, as well, Buck, not just base desires.”