The Passion

“and i'll take it”

“sounds like a plan”

“Bison, I agree with most of what you said. I just wanted to say that, yes, absolutely, belief in God (not necessarily religion) is all about faith. But it IS about logic as well. That's where the whole aspect of apologetics comes in. I find that area of study fascinating. I am not eloquent enough to participate in those kinds of discussion, but I love to listen and here the views and logic and reason. That really appeals to me.

Dayhiker mentioned the book "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. (Don't dare mess with italics there) I highly recommend it for anyone who is interested in probing further in order to think for themselves and make up their own mind. It's a very logic-based book. One of the best gifts God gave mankind was the ability to think for ourselves and make up our own mind.

And BTW, you go, Newgirl!!! Rock on!!

One more thing, I recommend to anyone who is trying to decide whether or not to see the movie for whatever the reason to read the reviews by Ebert and Roeper that were published today. Both can be found at the Chicago Sun Times web site. www.suntimes.com”

“The degree of probing lately is making me nervous. Please excuse me if I don't let anyone behind me.”

“mutt, the simon cowell of trailtalk..."princess complex" heh. good one

luke, this is neither the time nor the place....

im sorry if this has already addressed before, but does anyone know anything about the rumor that mels hand makes a cameo in the movie, driving the nails into christs hands?”

“Hey!! Here's some free stuff. Click on the link and go get it.



Pretty good deal, eh?”

“Click on an image, any image, and go there. 8D








”

“From the Baltimore Sun

PURE MISERY
Holier-than-thou "Passion" pummels its audience with action-film cuts, slasher-film makeup and two-bit theology.”

“From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution

"This is a movie so singular, so intense, so overwhelming that it simply has to be experienced."”

“Underneath its pretetious trappings, including Latin and Aramaic dialogue(with English subtitles), Mel Gibson's "The Passion Of The Christ" is just a religious exploitation movie--in the same genre, if not the same league, as The Exorcist.”

“If you do not like it don't go and see it! Get over it! I did not raise hell when "You Got Served" came out.”

“Who got served?

I don't intend to see "The Passion".

Thirty years ago some of my friends were moved to fits of religious enlightenment by "The Exorcist".
It was a life-changing experience for them.

"Its based on a true story!",
they would say.

Maybe, but its a movie.”

“I intend to see it.”

“i intend to see the movie, and judge it based on its artistic merits, but it is really sad that no one will be able to say anything negative about it, objectively, without being accused of having an anti-christian agenda by the religious right. just like you cannot look at the bible objectively and refuse to assume it is holy word without being accused by the christian right of just trying to justify your immorality.”

“Calm down people it’s just a movie that’s all nothing more. Remember their goal is to make money nothing more. Go see it, don’t go see it, but always remember it’s just a movie.”

“In the same way that you can't praise the film without being accused of being anti-semitic.”

“saying the exact opposite of what i said is not the same thing as making a rebuttal.”

“I'd say that Mel intends more than to just make money. He intends to make money, for sure, but that's not his only motive.

Yes, it is Mel's left hand that drives the spike into Jesus's hand.”

“no one has said anything about people liking the film must be anti-semitic. youre just saying that to be combative and throw the focus off my original statement because you dont want to address it. what some jewish leaders are worried about is that the film will cause backlashes against the jews by extremists. personally, i think only the most fringe elements will have that reaction.”

“from what ive heard, he intends to give all the profits to charity. that would make sense. to me, i think it only helps his artistic credibility.

o my, did i just say something positive about the film, and me being an agnostic at best? wow, i better get back in my closed-minded liberal box before somebody sees me.”

“Mutt, I'm no psychoanalyst, but your attach on Scorch begs the question of, why are you here? You're obviously going out of your way to harass and bait Christians into argueing here. You're not interested in the answers, only the opportunity to belittle those who have different beliefs. Sounds like someone didn't get enough attention while growing up.”

“Storm - What you just wrote is utterly ridiculous. I've read alot more from people saying that the film is blatantly anti-semitic, and no should be exposed to it, than I've read about people casting those who didn't like it as anti-christian.

Richard Roeper went so far as to address the issue in his review. He felt he had to make sure he defended himself against those who would say he is anti-semitic because he had good things to say about the movie (that's one example of many). I have yet to read one review by someone who didn't like the movie who felt they had to defend themselves against being seen as anti-christian.”

“I have yet to read one review by someone who didn't like the movie who felt they had to defend themselves against being seen as anti-christian"

just because the reviewers are not addressing it doesnt negate it happening.i would imagine they would not deign it worth mentioning. movie critics are used to backlash from movie fans and dont worry about it.

where i hear this attitude is whenever i go to church, run across some televangelist, read billy graham in the newspaper, etc.”

“I think people need to realize that the majority of Christians aren't the ones you see crying on TV.”

“"just because the reviewers are not addressing it doesnt negate it happening.i would imagine they would not deign it worth mentioning. movie critics are used to backlash from movie fans and dont worry about it."

Then why does someone with a positive view feel they have to defend themselves against charges of anti-semitism?”

“i relative of mine just yesterday made the remark that wouldnt it be great if it got nominated for best picture but it never would and i forget her exact words, but it was to the effect that hollywood is anti-christian. and i hear this attitude alot in the church, not only to this movie, but entertainment in general. they piss and moan that nobody wants to see g-rated and pro-god stuff, ignoring the fact that most g-rated and pro-god entertainment is cheesy, preachy crap. i have two words for you:
veggie
tales”

“because anti-semitism would be a lot harder label to bear than alot of other things. because no movie has stirred this much controversy in a long time. because anti-semitism is worse because it is a form of racism, while anti-christianity is more being against a set of beliefs. (sarcasm font)besides, its pretty much a given that everyone in hollywood is godless heathens, so why bother?(end sarcasm font)”

“"ignoring the fact that most g-rated and pro-god entertainment is cheesy, preachy crap"

That I can agree with.”

“another way of saying it is, "anti-semitism" is the really strong buzzword right now. its akin to being labeled a communist during the mc carthy witch hunts. i cant blame him for wanting to separate himself. maybe the anti-semitism paranoia has gotten a lot more out of hand than i had realized. doesnt change the whole sour grapes attitude by the religious right.”

“An advance screening of An advance screening of Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ drew scathing reviews yesterday from an interfaith group of 600 Baltimore-area Christians and Jews, who called the film gratuitously violent, historically inaccurate and just plain bad.

The criticism transcended faith as rabbis and priests alike trashed most aspects of the movie, from its inclusion of scenes not found in the Bible to its portrayal of the Jewish High Priest Caiaphas and the Jewish mob as the prime culprits in the crucifixion of Jesus.

"As a scripture person, I offer sympathy for my Jewish brothers and sisters here," said the Rev. John Donahue, a Jesuit and professor of New Testament studies at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Roland Park, who served on a panel after the screening at The Senator Theatre.

"Historically, the portrayal of the Jewish leaders here is a parody. The movie has many things that are attested to in no gospels whatsoever."”

“Ooops, that should be just one advance screening.”

“The sun review is way out there, even compared to most other reviewers who didn't like the film.

Someone who's interested should go to yahoo movies, or rottentomatoes.com where they'll find a good sampling of positive and negative reviews.”

“PETA visited Mel Gibson's Beartooth Ranch, about 60 miles from here and Jesus appeared!

Even dressed as Jesus, Bob Chorush knew he was taking on a challenging task.

Chorush, a member of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), flew from Seattle Tuesday to spend an hour protesting at Mel Gibson's Beartooth Ranch south of Columbus.

What he got for his efforts were a few "middle-finger salutes," one thumbs-up and a visit from a sheriff's deputy.

As Chorush explains PETA's opposition to branding, dehorning and castrating cattle without pain relief, he acknowledged that "this might be the wrong part of the country to say that."

When Chorush received his second "middle-finger salute," he took it with a sense of humor.

"If three more people go by, I'll have the whole hand waving at me," he said.”

“I don’t understand. Why would anyone go to a movie and expect historical accuracy? That’s just dumb! This is Hollywood were talking about, the land of make believe it’s not a history department. It’s a business, they’re in it to make a profit, and controversy is a tool for making money. If people don’t like the movies they make then don’t go see them or make your own. If someone goes to see a movie and comes out of it angry with a group of people then that person has very little grip on reality and needs to seek help.”

“The "More From The Sun" article is a news article.

The 600 Christians and Jews said the film was gratuitously violent, historically inacurate and just plain bad.

What did Pat Robertson have to say?”

“Mel Gibson is free to express himself artistically like everyone else. I saw a Madonna in a urinal once. Obviously he's gotten a rise outta people...probably what he intended. See or don't see it. Hey...turn it off if you don't like it. Keep the kids safe from it. Wouldn't want them to see a little blood.

Where were those 600 transcendant religious folk when every other gratuitously violent movie and video game were released?

Sympathy? Good grief! It's art.
Remember the elephant-dung Madonna in NY? The Last Temptation of Christ? I didn't feel any sympathy for he people offended by those artistic endeavors. Why don't they get together and discuss the Palestinians, world hunger, global warming. But then again...isn't a free society wonderful?”

“Here's a review I found useful.

Passionate About the Passion
”

“of course you found it useful. if it was a review panning it, you would have questioned the reviewers morality, his mothers breeding, and his fathers species”

“Nice attack on Buck 2scoops.
To borrow from your line of thinking: (sarcasm font)Yeah, the only people who are attacking others are the ones who liked the movie.(/sarcasm font)”

“StormBringer, that's simply not true, I have read many reviews of this movie, some often even shredding it, like this one from the Fox News website, which is very critical of the movie:
Critical review on the Fox News website

I don't doubt people's morality if they don't like this movie, that's ridiculous. There are secular movies I really like, and there are religious movies I think suck. I haven't even seen this one yet, so I can't say whether I even like it or not, but I am excited to see it. But I do think that those who "judge" the film based on the violence are not realizing that this film is solely about the violent crucifiction of Christ, so of course it's gonna be relentlessly violent. I am squeeeeeeemish when it comes to violence, so I'm not looking forward to being physically and emotionally upset while watching this movie, but I figure if Christ can endure hours of torture to die on the cross for my sins, surely I can endure the pain of watching this for a couple hours. The violence in the first part of Saving Private Ryan was hard for me to watch, but I almost felt as if I were there experiencing the horrors of the battle. It's a sickening experience, but a real experience, and one that much can be gained from emotionally understanding the real brutality of past events. I look forward to The Passion Of Christ not as entertainment or a "really cool" movie, but as an experience, no matter how painful, to better understand and "feel" and appreciate what Christ had to endure to pay for my sins. I also better learned from the brutal and graphic first battle scene in Saving Private Ryan what our soldiers went through to gain a few yards of beachfront property to fight evil.

If someone doesn't like the film based on the "art" of filmmaking or their personal taste of movies, I don't question their morality, that's silly.”

“I know I'll get some flak for this...but wasn't Jesus abit of a rebel rouser? I mean he disobeyed Roman rule (Who were in power at that time), had a cult following and had people worship him.

Doesn't that sound abit like that cult leader (Korse (forgot his name)) in Waco, Texas?”

“I've looked at this movie in similar way to how I felt about Schindlers List. I didn't see it at the theater so when it came out on video I wanted to watch it. Each Friday night my girlfriend (now wife) and I would see it on the shelf and decide we didn't feel like being depressed that evening. We both felt like it was important to see and experience the movie but the circumstance had to be right. When NBC broadcast it unedited we finally watched it. I'm glad I watched it, but I won't watch it again. Once was enough. I suspect this movie will be similar. I want to see it, I want to see it on the big screen(but probably won't because of coordinating with sitters), and I want to see how it must have been. I doubt I watch it a second time.

The Private Ryan analogy is a good one in reference to the violence. I don't think I cried while watching it, but I came close.

Jesus was very much a rebel rouser. I say the analogy with Koresh breaks down since Jesus didn't poison or burn his followers.”

“Right on, Stanlee. That was the case. The Roman Govenor hadd to do something or else he would have had full blown anarcy and he would've found himself fight off a lion in Rome.

Let's keep this in persective, people. Jesus, for the most part, was wart on the ass of the Romans and they had to make him an example to the other religous groups in the area. Remember, at that time, the Romans were pagens and those in that area were lucky that the Govenor even let ANY other religion to be practiced, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, goat screwers, what ever.”

“There are often two concerns I keep hearing from those who don't like the movie. They are:

1. Too violent

2. Blames the Jews

The "too violent" criticism to me is a no-brainer. The movie is about the "passion", aka the "suffering" of Christ. That's the WHOLE movie. It's solely about the brutal beatings and crucifixion of Christ on the cross. It's not about the life of Christ, or His teachings, or His followers, or the events that lead up to the crucifixion, but solely about the final horrifically brutal hours of Christ to be slain. Of course it's gonna be violent, that's a default, so I'm not sure how "too violent" can be a criticism about a movie stressing the violent death of Christ.

The anti-Semitic one baffles me too, because it shows a misunderstanding of the role Jews played in history as the chosen people of God. I just figure these critics don't understand the complete message of the Bible, which in effect praises Jews as a whole. Christ, who was a Jew, GAVE His life, it wasn't taken from Him. This all happened in a land filled with Jews. That's just fact. Christ loves the Jews and died for the Jews and the Gentiles alike. Pontius Pilate, the Roman ruler of the province, did not want to kill Jesus. Pilate knew the elite Jewish religious leaders of the time, the Pharisees, were jealous of Christ. The Book of John even states this, and Pilate over and over and over kept saying, "I find no guilt in this man", but the Pharisees lead the crowds into calling for and demanding Jesus' crucifixion. Pilate still didn't want to kill Christ. But Pilate didn't want to be responsible for Christ's death, so he washed his hands of it and the Jewish crowd even said, "may His blood be upon us" as they demanded His death. The Roman soldiers mocked Him and beat him and gave Him a thorn of crowns since He claimed to be the King of the Jews, and handed Him over to the Jews. Pilate even wrote, "King Of The Jews" over the cross, while the Pharisees protested that it should have said, "I said I was King of the Jews", not that He was, "King Of the Jews". But Pilate didn't have it changed. Now, the Jews wanting Christ to be killed was prophesied long ago, and Christ layed down His own life, and this was a requirement to be the sacrifical Lamb. Remember, up until this time, this was primarily a Jewish story in a Jewish setting in Jewish culture. That's why the Jews are so heavily involved. But Christ loved the Jews even as they killed Him, even saying, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do". That's love, not condemnation. And through Christ's sacrifice, many of these same Jews came to realize that Jesus was indeed the Christ, and became saved because of it. So this is not anti-Semitic, and the Jews are not Christ-killers, it's a Jewish story that became a story for the rest of the world, as Christ became the sacrificial Lamb for ALL people through the Jewish people. And I type really fast, sorry.

I think one should read (or re-read as a refresher) at least one of the four Gospels (I'd recommend John) to get the whole perspective to critique The Passion.”

“The people in charge put down Koresh in the U.S.

The people in charge put down Jesus in Rome.

Just for discussions sake....what if Koresh had 20,000 followers, and he was later killed....would he be revered like Jesus as an anti-government crusader? Just a thought.”

“DH - That was one of my thangs earlier in this thread. Hay Zeus coulda came back already and die for sins and we'd never know it.

What if Koresh thing that happened was the along the lines of what happened back then, ie a martar dieing for his cause? Do we even know the mental state JC was in? Could it be that he was a wack job, hippie with a hord of other mentally challenged people following him? Don't think it couldn't happen......they was ALL kinds in that area at that time in history.”

“I just got off the phone with my mom, she just returned from seeing the movie. She's emotionally distraught right now. She said it was a positive experience, but horrifically brutal and hard to watch and she won't be seeing it again. She had to close her eyes often, but she could still hear the brutality without seeing it. She said she's just gonna sit and contemplate for the rest of the afternoon. I can tell she was shaken to the core.”