Nader Sell Out?

“"Bush is a smart guy....."

He make Dan Quaol look like a friggin' English Professor. He butchers the English language worse than Ice Tea, for crying out load.”

“..or ME for that matter LOL!”

“Didn't make him stupid. But he was Pres. before looking good on TV was a big deal.”

“Can we get this thread back on topic, fer cryin' out loud?


”

“Duopoly???? Duopoly?? are you part of the Duopoly???? Do you vote cratic or lican ,if so ,you are part of the Duopoly!!!!Repent, before it's too late, you are part of the non-Nader Duopoly!!!”

“I guess he's a lying crook, who just appears to be dumber than a box of rocks, then.”

“I'm glad to see him run. If the choices are Bush or Kerry, I'll take another 4 years of Bush.”

“Do you think Edwards might be a spoiler if Kerry gets the nod? I really can't see him putting on the VP skirt.

Besides being a 'career' politician has Kerry EVER worked a day in his life, like the rest of America does? He actually is kinda cut from the same cloth as Bush is. In my book he is a slimmer less drunk Teddy who wants to turn back time and everything Bush has done. He wants the same 'plan' Cliton had going before Bush took over. Now exactly where was our economy going before Bush took over?”

“Did go to vietnam, so I wouldn't say he hasn't worked a day in his life, to me that counts as work. Yes is he a career politician, and yes he was born into privilige (and on a whole other level than Bush).”

“I'll tak a career politician over an agent for the military-industrial complex antday.

You can't really be inviting a comparison between the Clinton administration's handling of the economy and what Dumbya has brought us, can you Briar Rabbit?”

“Kerry was raised a hard working young man...weekends boating with the JFKs must have been hard.”

“If he had not been faced down he would have eventually persued his nuclear programs again (If you don't think so you're numb, or completely oblivious).
Bison

Far cry from being within 45 minutes of 'imminent attack'!


No
"The Saudis don't have a history of gasing their own people, or trying to develop nuclear weapons. They don't present the same threat."
Bison
07:43:30 PM

You talk about supporters of terrorism and leave these motherless f_cks out of the equation. You are indeed naive, my friend!”

“The Saudis do not present the same threat that Saddam did, there's no naivete there. The Saudis however have shown that they can be dealt with diplomatically even if it is an agonizinly slow process. They are also threatened by the Terrorists. They are trying to strike a balancing act between satisfying forces in their country that are strongly allied with the terrorists, and protecting their own security through being allied with us.”

“Sorry, Bison. There is no way to justify, IMO, the way this was prioritized. The price of the arrogant muscle flexing and the 'In Your Face, World!' attitude is coming to light. The prez made some serious mistakes here. But, you won't see it, so let's turn this thing back into a Nader discussion.

Ralphie won't have the same impact as in 2000. The arguments brought up here are all valid, but the powers that be are aware of them and to think that the race will be a cut-and-dried repeat of 2000 is unlikey, in my opinion.”

“The Saudis are just as culpable as anyone…they just know how to be sneaky about their financial support. LOL!

TV telethons to raise money for suicide bomber's families is very covert.”

“Good point, Nigal.

I also wish I could remember the comment that scumbag prince from S.A. said post 9/11 when he was here that caused Mayor Guiliani to tell him to stick that 10 million dollar check up the hershey highway!”

“This race is a different ballgame.

Dumbya ran as a moderate and has ruled as an arrogant right-wing zealot.

Back off topic.....
To believe that Saddam Hussein is somehow allied with Islamic Jihad is out there.
Those kooks are fighting for Islamic "purity".
Hussein has stomped on Islamic fundies in Iraq.
He paid families of Palestinian "suiciders"(that's a Dumbyaism) after the fact, I suppose to cheese-off Israel and the U.S.”

“So where was the economy heading in '99, cause that is where Kerry wants to take us.

Had 911 and it's finanicial aftershock not happened or the costly creation of the Dept. of HLS not happened, or this new found war on terrorism not happened or the Iraqi 'action' not happened would you folks still be complaining about how much he(like he is solely responsible for it all)has cost tax payers.

If Kerry is such the patriot, he is claiming to be why did he leave 'Nam early only to came back and protest against that war. He left his 'brothers' behind if you ask me and he'll do the same if he gets the nod. His 'patriotic' protesting did nothing for the troops morale and in the end actually may have caused more harm than good.

No one liked that war, and the protesting here did nothing but break down the morale of the troops he left behind. I wonder how many 'walking wounded' stayed behind to help their brothers. Wouldn't that be alittle more patriotic.

If Kerry is smart he'll stick to the issue's, because his patriotism is suspect when you look at his history since leaving 'Nam. And in honesty the Repub's may end up focusing on that to taint Kerry's chances.

I'm likin' Edwards more and more,, that boy doesn't nearly have the riddle past like Kerry has.”

“I don't think anyone had said this yet - why not blame all those registered Dems who didn't vote in the last election for Gores loss? Anyone know the vote percentage?

I will be voting 3rd party, with or w/o Nader.”

“Uh, Gore got more votes than Dubya.

Kerry left Vietnam early?
What, was he wounded or something.”

“"No one liked that war, and the protesting here did nothing but break down the morale of the troops he left behind. I wonder how many 'walking wounded' stayed behind to help their brothers. Wouldn't that be alittle more patriotic."

Stay behind???

Individual soldiers are not allowed to stay behind.

You go where they send you.”

“My understanding is that b/c Kerry was wounded thrice (although none seriously) he was able to get out of overseas duty.”

“The blame for Gore's loss goes to Gore himself and Bill Daly, for making some dreadful mistakes in the campaign. Major mistake #1: Don't turn your back on your home state. By simply courting his own people, Gore may have won Tennessee, rendering the whole circus that followed moot...”

““Kerry left Vietnam early?
What, was he wounded or something.”

Yes he did. He used the technicality that says if you are wounded three times you get to go home. His wounds were so superficial that only missed two days total of duty. He was appointed a job driving a desk for an admiral state side. One thing a lot of people don’t realize is he was beginning his career as a hippy protester before he was even discharged.”

“My father ended up clinically dead as a result of his service in WW II and was lucky enough to be brought back to life to become one of those 'hippy protesters' opposed to Vietnam.

Can't say that someone speaking their conscience about an ill advised war counts as a black mark in my book.”

“As a matter of fact, my father had this hung on his office wall:

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
-- Abraham Lincoln”

“Yeah. If I was in War and could get out on a "thrice wounded" technicality, I would instead elect to stay because I'm an idiot with a death wish.”

“Still ,Nader is right about the present two party system really being the same party with two ends.The same corps.run money through each,to cover their asses in the close race situation.The great demolican snake has two heads that constantly blame the other for all the ills.THIS TT and its' discussions are proof of that.One for all and all for one leave the voter no room to run.”

“...and the "idiot" comment may be unwarrented. If someone wants to continue on instead of "opting" out, that is their perogative. If it was a friend of mine I would call him an idiot, though and do my best to convince them otherwise.”

“"Yeah. If I was in War and could get out on a "thrice wounded" technicality, I would instead elect to stay because I'm an idiot with a death wish."

I wasn't making a judgment on the rules alone. It is based on comparison with him being called a war hero and what actually happened.”

“I understand. Maybe all veterans are heroes? Mind you, I'm not a Kerry supporter and actually wish the nam badge would dissapear from politics.”

“Violin,my dad had pretty much the same situation.Told me he'd kill me if I went to war or worked on a car.The only two pieces of wisdom I abided by .Should have listened more to his ideas of lost identity-specifically,to the tax man.”

“Other then reveal the unstableness of the Corvair (and make good royalties from the book) can anyone list ANYTHING usefull that Ralph Nader had done in his life?”

“"I understand. Maybe all veterans are heroes?"

Well of course they are. I'll be the first to say that but his supportes use the lable in the wrong context. Have you ever read about how he got his bronze star?”

“Didn't he go after the Pinto?”

“Nader's contributions as a consumer advocate are largely unnoticed to those that don't seek that information. And I will give him credit for that aspect of his life. His political life is entirely another matter...”

“I wonder what Nader eats? He looks really good for 70.

I'd vote Edwards but sad to say, he won't get the nod to run. Shame. While I'm no fan of Clinton's I do think a younger leader can be a good thing.”

“Nader is correct that we need at least a third viable party to make the other two more honest. As it is now, we can have presidential debates where neither candidate has to really address the issues. They just stick to their platitudes and run stealth campaigns.
Nader will not hurt the democratic candidate if that person runs a strong campaign on the environment, keeping good jobs in America, and a better foreign policy. The democrats need to find out their identity again. The republicans already know who they are; the party of corporate interests who throw a bone to the fundamentalists from time to time to keep them voting. They also hang out "lower taxes" and "less government" like a lure to the less well-educated to keep them in the fold. The republicans think it's alright to hold secret comferences with the insurance companies and the energy companies to write policy.
So, in conclusion, Nader is NOT an option in this election. It's the democrats to win or lose.”

“Right-O TB.”

“Let's stick off of the "less well educated" and other labels, As though the Democrats don't hold secret conferences with the unions and trial lawyers to write policy.”

“I can tell you that our current VP, is being sued to divulge the participants of his energy policy meeting. Can you site an example of this happening in the Whitehouse at any other time? Why can't the American people know who is writing their energy policy?”

“The American people don't seem to want a 3rd party. Actually, maybe all the Democrats and Republicans who vote for the "lesser evil" should consider that type of thinking as a sign that another party is neccessary?”

“Why can't individuals give advice, without fear of political repercussions? The House and Senate vote on these policies, if they have a problem with something it doesn't get passed, who gives a Sh%t what someone says in a meeting about what they feel is good or bad for policy, there are more than enough checks and balances in the system. The only thing that could come out of revealing who said what in private meetings is that someone for whom this is an area of expertise gets pilloried in the press and decides in the future to withold their advice. So we really need that.”

“Do we really need that?”

“You know, it's ironic. I read all the half truths you have posted and many of your justifications and if this was 150 years ago, we would hear those same arguments as justification for making the Bison almost extinct and getting rid of the Indians.

Saddam BRAGGED about supporting terrorist organizations? If there were proof of that it would be plastered in the press, by the administration Every day.

If we hadn't gone to war, we would not have been attacked by Iraq BEFORE HAVING SOLID PROOF that they possesed weapons of Mass Destruction. Also if I remember right, at the time Bush was pushing, Saddam WAS complying with the UN, but the Administration kept saying he was lying and uncooperative, when in fact it was Bush and the Bushettes who were lying and who defied the United Nations.

The job of the leaders of countries are to use every means possible to AVOID war. Bush WANTED this war and did everything he could to go forward including lying to the American People and to Congress.

The question should not be if Bush will be elected, it should be why he hasn't been impeached! Every American Life lost in Iraq is on his shoulders.

I don't see Bush doing anything about North Korea, which has Nukes (certified) and a dictator worse than Saddam. Don't give me the diplomacay crap either because Bush doesn't know the definition of the word. We're being blackmailed by North Korea.

How many Saudi's involved in 9/11?
What country refused to freeze assets of suspected terrorists until after THEY were victims? (Saudi Arabia).

What country gave nuclear technology and materials to "rogue nations"? Pakistan

We're not doing anything about them are we? I know, we "need them as allies", same thing that was said about Iraq and Saddam by the US quite a few years back.

And don't label me a liberal either. Geez I voted for Goldwater and for Wallace (because they told the truth when they campaigned. I remember Presidents going back to Harry S. Truman. There have been only two presidents that I can say I had an absolute dislike and distrust for (even before the truth became know). The first was Richard Nixon, and compared to Bush, Nixon comes across like Mother Theresa.

The man is dangerous and arrogant. He wields the power of the Presidency without consideration of the consequences to anyone but his greedy cronies. Cheney is the epitome of all these corrupt CEO's who are being tried (But not Ken Lay, Bush's bosum buddy. The Haliburton scandal is just beginning). If you open the dictionary and look up the word "warmonger" you'll see a picture of Rumsfeld next to the definition. And John Ashcroft gets down on his knees every night and prays for a police State. Powell is their token "everything", not pais any attention to by the administration, just there to give an appearance of reason and decency. Too bad Powell is so military with the "follow the orders" mentlity and won't be the next administration member to tell the real facts of whats been going on.

Anyone who actually believes that the "intelligence was at fault" should have a lobotomy (Bush may be trying to bring those back alsoas well as shock treatments). The Bush Administation manipulated, withheld and made up the "facts" to fit the action they wanted to take.”

“Nader.....you go, boy!


(back off topic)
So what was Kerry's great heroic?

My mom's brother lost his entire platoon(all killed or wounded in one day) at Metz, France in November, '44.
He lost 65 pounds and survived.
He followed orders and ran his guys right into a buzzsaw.
For this he got the bronze or silver.....not sure why.”

“What does Cheney have to hide? Why would there be any consequences of meeting with the administration unless you had something to hide. I'm surprised a Bush sycophant would think that a secretive government means less government. Isn't this the definition of Big Brother?”

“There's a a difference between secretive and private. Nonpolitical people are often uncomfortable giving advice on policy in an open forum. The only way your going to get to the heart of what their real opinion is, is to assure them that their views will not be open to public scrutiny. THIS DOES NOT in anyway keep actual decisions about policy out of the public view.”

“Doublespeak. And a good example of it, also.”

“These are public affairs, the public has a right to know.”