Nader Sell Out?

“Bison, this administration has been a bit over the top when it comes to that secrecy crap, safe to say? I think it is, especially when it comes to information that so directly affects the people of this country!”

“to see anywhere on this board, where anyone when challenged has produced a quote in context, that shows that Bush lied.

Saddams links to terrorist organizations are well documented. Iraq was included in the list of nations that sponsor terrorism long before Bush got there.”

“Like the man said, "...its your money..."


And Butch/Cheney are trying to get their hands on all of it that they can.”

“Those commees in China know what we need---more expensive cheap tennis shoes. Oh, and some money for certain political campaigns.They like secrets,well,they like ones that act like secrets.”

“Don't worry, Cheney will get off the hook about his secret meetings. His old hunting buddy, Scalia, will see to that.”

“The issue will be balanced out by Kerry's secret meetings with the Vietnamese.”

“It's pretty slick how the Republican Party peddles tax cuts to the top of the food chain and religion to the bottom then plasters over the whole shebang with their unique brand of chickenhawk 'patriotism'.”

“Oh Bison, why do you do such damage to your credibility with statement like that. I mean, I understand that you are a Bush supporter and I can respect that, but do you really believe that drivel? Or is your name really Drudge?”

“Tell me about Kerry's secret meetings with the Vietnamese and I'll pull up current articles of Cheney and Scalia hunting ducks with oil executives. Deal?????”

“Bison = Cheney?”

“Saudie is much more of a threat to us than Iraq was, Bison.

Rememeber the mid 70's? They almost burried us without firing a bullet.

Look at what they're doing now. They opperate as an oil cartel, driving up the price of oil at there whim. They use YOUR money that you use to buy gas to try and KILL you. I thought we were working toward less dependance on oversea oil, don't see it. That was on Bush's platform in the 2000 run.

Hey! Just like we all knew Clinton was lying about a hummer (cuz he was acting like he was hiding something), this President is lying to you. What's wrong with looking at this from another angle? Doesn't past practices by both parties make you a little concerned that you might not be getting the whoile truth? When was teh last time, in morden history, that a Govenorment person told a WHOLE truth? Only after they're outta office, baby!”

“I probably missed this in a past thread, and maybe I shouldn't bring it up here, but what is wrong with Scalia & Cheney hunting together? I have no love for either but can't Judges have friends that are politicians?”

“Potential conflict of interest, Bear!”

“That was tongue in cheek, I'm not accusing him of anything duplicitous. He met privately with Vietnamese officials while he was formulating his support of the trade bill (which he decided should not be tied to Vietnam's human rights record). Now dammit I want transcripts of these meetings I want to know what was said.... So f*&%^ing what? He met with people who had knowledge of the issue in order to formulate a more informed opinion. That's what you do. But Cheney does it and it's some huge deal? gimme a break. Everyone has private meetings with people to help formulate policy.”

“In the '70s the "American" oil companies had as much to do with jackin' us those evil A-Rabs.

In '79 people were ready to "$h!t On A Shiite" over the Iran mess.
That crisis was made possible by some of our own.”

“Back to Thread title.

Nader sell out ?
This would imply that Nader was ever in one of the 2 main parties, I cannot recall him ever running for President with either of those parties.

Another sell out would be if Nader left the Greens for some reward position with either of the 2 majors. I am unaware of him having done so.

Yes, he has a monumental ego, but so has everyone who runs for President, insider or outsider. Remember Perot, who even after losing the election presumed that he would be able to give Bill Clinton who won, advice on running the country.

Remember Dole, whose speeches could put anyone to sleep within minutes, running against an incumbent President who was an excellent public speaker. Dole as the Repub insider certainly got the party nod, but the rest of the country nodded off, ensuring that the Dems retained the White House for 4 more.

Gore vs Bush, not a lot of charisma in that election, but trust me the egos were there.”

“I think that there is a world of difference between how we are affected by Cheney's energy policy meetings than what you are talking about...”

“I really don't understand how its a conflict of interest unless they weren't friends before?”

“And, if asked who attended that meeting with Vietnamese officials, would there be a denial or a cover-up?”

“Scalia and the rest of the Supreme Court are getting ready to preside over lawsuits brought concerning Cheney's meetings. The question is whether Salia can preside imparrtially....”

“I see. It "looks" bad. refresh my memory, is there any way to get rid of a supreme court justice? Impeachment, perhaps. Just curious.”

“Any Federal judge can be impeached.”

“Death or retirement, that's it...

And, whether theere is impropriety here or not, part of what pisses people off is that these are intelligent men who know that actions along these lines are scrutinized under a microscope when you are this much in the public eye. They are aware of it, but couldn't give a rat's ass how the public views them. So, no matter what side of the fence you are on, you sometimes have to say, "hey, if this dude is so in touch with us 'regular people', then why does he flaunt this type of stuff in our faces?”

“wasn't sure about the impeachment thing with a judge. I stand corrected then, assuming that is true...”

“obviously very rare. the upshot of course is that they don't have to make decisions with any political calculus in mind. The downside is as Treebeard says they don't give a rats ass what anyone thinks about their decisions.”

“Article III section 1.

"The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour..."”

“Ahhhhh. Maybe I don't care that they hung out because I'm a political cynic? Or maybe I don't want to get worked up about it because there is nothing that can be done? Cynic or blind? I don't like being that critical of myself so I'll go with cynic.”

“I called you a cynic the other day and you took offense, what's the deal.”

“Political cynic? Overall, I think myself as a realist.

Optimist calls a realist a cynic. A cynic calls a realist an optimist.

A realist sees the truth :)”

“I seem to remember some talking heads saying that Scalia should recuse himself if the Cheney matter comes before the court.”

“And Scalia responded as you would expect an arrogant prick like him to reply...”

“Ralph Nader will make an excellent candidate.”

“the Constitution party is trying to get Judge Roy Moore to run. that would pick off some votes from Bush... but probably only in states he would win easily.”

“Why so coy Nigal? Tell us how Kerry earned his bronze star.

According to Veterans for John Kerry, it went something like this:

For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry’s calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat “V”.


Of course the injured man, Jim Rassmann, who nominated Kerry for citation remembers it a little differently. He says he was actually on Kerry's boat when a mine blew him overboard: Boston Globe


Why. What story is slimy Ted Sampley peddling? (You know - the same scumbag who smeared another war hero, John McCain by accusing him of collaborating with the enemy?)”

“Sorry for the HTML screw-up. The Boston Globe story about Rassmann is here.”

“I just want to make sure I get this straight. If a conservative journalist writes a story about a liberal, it's a "smear campaign" or "hatchet job", but if a liberal journalist writes a story about a conservative, he's just "exposing the truth."

And I get the feeling some of you will bend over backward to blame America and its leaders for various problems, instead of looking for reasons to defend our actions.”

“I will be donating to Nader's campaign. GOOOOO NADER!”

“Sampley is not a journalist Stick. The most polite word I can think of for him is con artist.

Read a little about him here: http://www.miafacts.org/prankster.htm

or read his scurrilous attacks on McCain here: http://www.usvetdsp.com/mccainpg.htm


Quote him if you choose, but be prepared to be called on it.

As for the second part of your post - pu-lease.”

“To the best of my knowledge I've never heard of the guy, V man, much less ever quoted from him.”

“Nigal has. I posted the same links in answer to similar garbage he posted last week and got the same response from him - stratdewd like silence.”

“stratdewd like silence

Another descriptive term is born.”

“SMW - I don't think that is really true for the most part. I would have to ask if you think that Cloutier, Hannity, O'Reilly, Rush and other Republican attack dogs are truthful in everything they say? They have been wrong before, much like I'm sure some of the Lib press has been wrong. Maybe it's a case of on side being higher profile than the other.....

Which leads me to a question for all of you:

What would be the Lib version of the people I just listed above? Is there such a thing? I mean, all I ever hear are those peeps spewing there side. I'd like to hear what the Lib attack dogs are.

Sorry, Moore and Franken ain't gonna cut it fer an argument, unless they have there own daily shows that I'm not aware of......”

“The liberal attack dogs are mostly in print... the list is long. My favorite TV pundit is Chris Matthews he's certainly a liberal but he calls em like he sees em, He never seems to be looking out for someone else's agenda.”

“I never blame 'America'. I would not ever identify my country with those shmucks. I'm sure those people would love for you to think that; they spend all their time hiding behind the flag.

Didn't Ambrose Bierce say that patriotism was the first refuge of the scoundrel, not the last?”

“I've seen Matthews lay into Dems real hard on his show, tho so I don't really view him as being a full blown Lib. By that assumption, you would have to call people like Russert a Lib too, and I just don't see that. I'm looking for the Lib peeps that are as high profile asa those above. I've never really seen him do much of anything on that show. He's more like a kermit the frog punching bag for Hannity.

I'm looking......where are they?”

“Please change the following:

I'm looking for the Lib peeps that are as high profile asa those above. < ALL I SEE IS ALLAN COMBS > I've never really seen him do much of anything on that show. He's more like a kermit the frog punching bag for Hannity.”

“I agree that Matthews lays into Dems as much as Reps. He's definitely liberal though. He worked for Tip O'Neil. But he's certainly no attack dog either way.”

“I'd like everyone to note: I am studiously avoiding posting on this thread...


Other than now, that is...”

“Good.

The last thing we need is some long cut & paste.”

“Didn't Matthews cut his teeth by sniffing Clinton's crotch for a year straight?”