Are We Going To Starve?

“Just read an article saying that we're going to have a world grain shortage in two years.

Even 1 degree of temperature rise during growing season, will cause a 10 percent decline in crop yields. Plus we're depleting the fresh water sources to quickly.

It takes 1000 tons of fresh water to produce 1 ton of grain.

Guess the next big war will be for fresh water. :o( Iceland and Canada have the largest amount of fresh water sources....shhh, don't go around telling everybody...especially the one's with big guns.”

“wow, so "tank girl" wasnt such an unrealistic movie”

“"Guess the next big war will be for fresh water. :o( Iceland and Canada have the largest amount of fresh water sources."

i guess this means the war on terror will be expanded to canada, iceland, and greenland within the next 5 years”

“jihad reykjavik!”

“It's just talk to drive up the futures market and pray on the weak minded peeps.”

“I'll sign up to defend the Great Lakes from diversion.

And how about a pitched battle or two to halt urban sprall into some of our best farm fields. You should see the great soil that McMansions continue to cover at an alarming rate around places such as the Twin Cities, Madison, Chicago and other midwestern cities. Crimes against humanity? Should make for some interesting trials in the Hague.”

“Right ON, pekka! teh Metro Detroit area is a PRIME example of what you talk about. Wanna hear something funny?

L. Brooks Patterson, our convicted drunken Oakland County Commissioner, has stated that the term "Urban Sprall" is another word for "economic development". He sey it;s a term used by Dems for poo poo investment in the economy. Yep, he's a Repub......”

“The Pentagon has already studied the issue and has determined, that as a worse case senario, wars will break out over regional mass starvation due to the effects of global warming,see:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/29/weekinreview/29revk.html

The Pentagon Report is an interesting read. On page 5, the graph shows many huge, abrupt, fluctuations of global temperature changes in just the last 18,000 years. With or without the effects of increased industrialization and increased CO2 emissions, the United States should prepare for the inevitable changes in global climate as outlined in the report. The report documents how the United States, unlike most of the rest of the world, has the “resources to adapt to the abrupt changes in the environment.” The report also documents how deaths “from war as well as starvation and disease will decrease population, which over time, will re-balance with carrying capacity.”

The report should be a wake up call for the rest of the world to get real about negotiating an equitable global warming treaty. While the vote in the U.S. Senate was unanimous against ratifying the Kyoto treaty, the reasons given for voting against the treaty was the built in inequalities and bias against the United States. When the disaster comes, the U.S. will be sitting relatively pretty while the rest of the world is going to be a big hurt.

The report should be a wake up call to the voters in the United States on the necessity of a strong defense budget. The Pentagon Report shows how localized wars will break out because of competition over resources, mostly in asia. The current U.S. spending on the defense is near historic lows, both as a percentage of GDP or as a percentage of the overall budget.

The report should be a wake up call to the U.S. voters that the United States should get real about the immigration situation between U.S. and Mexico. The Pentagon report shown that future military conflicts might start over difficulties between the haves and the have-not nations over immigration. Earths oceans protect the United States from this immigration problem from all countries except Mexico. If the United States can fix the immigration situation now between the U.S. and Mexico, then that problem is solved for the United States.

The report should be a wake up call for the rest of the world on the need for massive global birth control. The have-not nations should find acceptable ways to voluntarily limit their own populations within the carrying capacity of the earth, or their populations will be reduced involuntarily through wars, starvation, and disease.”

“greeeeeeeeat”

“how many years do we got before this hits us?”

“we're gonna die! Hey, no grain, no temptations for all those low carb folks:D”

“They had a segment on the news a few months ago that with the U.S. rising population that by 2030 we will no longer be able to produce enough food to feed the country without imports.”

“its a vast conspiracy by the atkins diet ppl to get consumers to buy their products”

“no beer!


2030? crap, i'll still be around.”

“If all of this is true then the Atkins diet is only going to cause problems sooner. It takes much more land, water and resources to feed animals and then eat them, than to eat plants directly. I heard it takes only .25 acres to feed a vegatarian, but 1.25 acres to feed a meat eater. The conclusion would be that the Atkins diet is hard on the planet and that's something nobody has talked about yet.”

“rich, where do u get these smarts?! LOL”

“"2030? crap, i'll still be around"

youll be, what, 40?”

“lol.... 39”

“richb, I have read similar stats...

I read it takes about 5acres to free range raise a cow. That 5 acres could grow enough porduce to feed 50 people. I wish I could site the source.”

“I'm gonna live forever..but, my quality of life might just suck..sigh..oh well, glad I retired at 20 and went back to work at 40..”

“nice try. youll be one trip around the sun away from a half-century”

“I read a lot. I'm kind of skeptical though when some reporters start screaming the sky is falling. It makes you wonder if they want to cook up a story to put on the news.”

“Geeee, you look a little bit older than THIRTEEN.”

“in 2030 ill be ummmm 30, yea”

“i HOPE shes older than 13. im pretty sure its not ok with god to have lascivious thoughts about a minor”

“DOH! 49, my bad.”

“you might want to have a talk with luke. im pretty sure the age of consent is higher than 13 even in japan and probably texas”

“i'm a virgin : )”

“Yeah, that's Roman Polanski said.....


So will all the tools of the fossil fuels industry who have been so loudly proclaiming that the mere possibility of Global Climate Change is complete and total Buncombe begin to rally around it now that they can use it as an excuse to increase defense spending?

NAH......”

“Sorry to answer the question, but...YES!”

“That's it. I'm moving to the mountains to live off the land.”

“"I read it takes about 5acres to free range raise a cow. That 5 acres could grow enough porduce to feed 50 people. I wish I could site the source."

I'm sorry, someone is really
jerking your chain on this, plus
they really don't know what they
are talking about.

Most of the land that cattle
range over are only suitable
for growing grass and being
pastured. Plus there is only
enough rain for grass not
for intensive gardening. I
have done intensive gardening.
It takes a tremendous amount
of labor, very fertile soil and a
critical amount of water. The
same land over which the
buffalo roamed is better used
for cattle. I believe in organically
grown food stuffs but the people
who want their steaks should
be able to eat them. I've tried
the vegi route also. Most people
cannot endure that diet through-
out all their lives and get all the
necessary substances their
bodies require to stay healthy.”

“That's the Lousiest poem I've ever read.”

“How do they graze in winter?With Atkins and the real cost of grain for cattle, better rethink the efficiency of meat. so much cattle being raised on leased land for almost free. Cattleman lobby is giant, the tax payer pays to maintain the land.”

“Hey more bad news, the world grain crops have been flat for the last 8 years.

Everything's going to be fricking expensive in the near future....so buy your necesities TODAY. At least it will get the economy going.”

“Abilene, I said that I had read similar stats. I didnt say I believed them or not. I do however imagine that if the land used to grow silage was used to grow food for people you'd get a higher return of calories pound for pound.”

“Most cattle don't eat grass and are produced in enormous feedlots, requiring huge amounts of water and producing large amounts of animal waste. That's part of the reason for mad cow disease. They feed the cattle grain, discarded animal parts and recycled manure. If only the cattle could roam and eat normal food there would be far less problems with contaminated food I would think.”

“Go back to the late '60s or early '70s to find the book "Diet for a Small Planet." It sets out all the economic issues for a meat-based vs. grain-based food structure, including the calculations for how much land is needed to produce various caloric levels in each form.

As richb noted, much of the beef supply comes from feed lots, not range. The mad cow disease scare has helped promote grass-fed beef as more "organic" and "safer," but it would seem that range land with its limited carrying capacity will not be able, by itself, to support the current demand level for meat.

There is an old British sci-fi novel called "No Blade of Grass" about a worldwide blight hitting all forms of grass (ergo, all grains) and the ensuing breakdown of society.”

“It sounds like a bunch of rhetoric from the global warming Chicken Littles.”

“All those Chicken Littles in the Pentagon, you mean.... LOL

I've lost count. Is this the third or fourth thread about that same DoD report?”

“It'd be nice if folks would just stop watering and spraying their freakin' lawns so they're emerald green. That would be a huge improvement right there.”

“SOLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!”

“Peak Oil will cause a food shortage before Global Warming.”

“eat venison, not hormone-steroid-chemical laced cow meat!!! venison is good, and good for you, and more environmentally sound. but, of course, if everyone wanted to eat venison, it wouldn't be environmentally sound. free roaming is the way to go.”

“When we had drought conditions, some people started businesses that would spraypaint your dead grass that emerald green color, LOL

I wonder about those golf courses in the desert... and how the Colorado River is completely sucked dry before it can reach the Gulf of California.”

“maybe the ultimate problem is that there are just too many people in the world.

if the world can support a finite amount of biomass, and if more of that biomass is human (or to meet human needs), it would appear biodiversity is directly compromised.”

“Just wait until all the glaciers are gone I think something like a quarter of the worlds population will be without fresh water.”

“Yep. The Earth may be large but it's still finite. Some folks think continuous growth is a good thing but they forget the obvious fact.”

“yet one more reason while i will never reproduce. that and i hate kids.”

“birch, I meant you no
disrespect.

My humble opinions . . . . .

There does not appear to be
easy answers to making
major changes to and yet
maintaining a sustainable
food supply and economic
model. There are stacks of
books and treatise written by
true scientists, economists,
and nutritionists, that we could
refer to, all with differing
opinions on this subject.
The popular news media
always manages to include
in the morass, the profuse
creations of the charlatans.
Consumer demand seems
to be the best model for
change.

I grew up reading "Organic Gardening" among other things.
Most in my area regarded the
subject as another tree
hugging activity. Well .....
guess what? Now, here in middle Tennessee most Kroger
stores have a selection of
vegetables and other foodstuffs
labled "organically grown". We
just had a second "Wild Oats
Market" open within 7 miles of
my home.

I think that much of the
"agricultural conglomerate"
methods of producing
foodstuffs are reprehensible.
PLEASE don't equate the
practices of the small family
farmer with those of these
"conglomerates".

birch, my point is "5 acres to free
range a cow" land is generally
not the same kind of land or
does not have the same
rainfall that land has where you
would grow silage for cattle feed
or the same land that one
might grow organically produced veggies for you or me.

richb,
"I read a lot. I'm kind of skeptical though when some reporters start screaming the sky is falling. It makes you wonder if they want to cook up a story to put on the news.", I admire
your insight. I wish more
would think for themselves
like you obviously do.
Consider this . . . . .
under normal conditions
would cattlemen be sending
their good brood cows and
herd sires to slaughter?
For every head of cattle that is
on a feed lot, somewhere there
has to be a mother and a sire.
(one sire + mutiple cows =
one calf per cow sometimes
twins) The sires and cows are
back on the range or pasture
eating grass in the growing
season and hay when it is
provided in the winter. They
are also producing the next
generation of calves to go to
the feedlots or be home fed
by the cattleman. Generally cattle when they go into the
feedlots are less than a year old.

I don't believe it to be a widespread practice to feed
recycled manure back to cattle,
usually chicken manure, here in the U. S. I could be wrong. It
can be a dangerous practice.

It has been against the law
in the U. S. for several years to
feed protein to cattle obtained
from animal parts byproduct.

After the recent madcow disease scare here, the
slaughter of downer cows as
part of the production of meat
for human consumption was
outlawed. My question .... why
has it been legal all of these years?

An interesting quotation -

" . . . let your voice be heard
loudly and often, in protest
against the indifference,
ignorance, and avarice
responsible for the uncontrolled
adulteration and
misrepresentation of foods,
drugs, and cosmetics. In this
adulteration and
misrepresentation lurks a menace to your health that
ought no longer be tolerated."
- 1933 Frederick John Schlink”