New wrinkle on illegal immigration

“Couldn't get 60 votes.”

“No one has any Byrd shot.”

“sent my Senators emails yesterday telling them to vote no on the dumbass immigration bill.”

“WOW finally they found a way to unite the nation....AGAINST THEM.

It is dead, I was listening to Sen Lindsay Gramnesty yak about it.....ME thinks he spent too much time helping John McCain look for those frozen strawberries.”

“XL, would you feel safer at GITMO than on the Senate floor?”

“Fantastic. So much for Jorge selling out our sovereignty!”

“LOL...wow...neat connection there UN...truthfully I don't worry about Gitmo, since I will never be bearing arms against the United States (while not in the uniform of a recognized military).

But I would prefer the Congress have less control in my life. Then there are people "cliffie" who apparently want mommy government to take care of them cradle to grave.”

“These pigs that favored this bill never explored the fact that they created the problem in 1986 by never following up on all the promises of border and employer sanctions. Even had they done the followups, the world was taught to never believe anything that america says, just wait them out. Iraq kinda has some of those same elements, ah?
Stop blaming the rest of the world for problems 'made in america'. Like my 'Ron Paul Rant', even though he supportde it?”

“Put this thread in storage until the spring of 2009.”

“CHEAP TOMATOES?

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent


From a California school teacher - - -




"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:


I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioleconomic and income levels.


Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.


Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)


I estimate that well over 50% of these student s are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)


I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial.. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)


I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.


Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?


To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.


Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.


We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.


Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?


There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.


It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.


If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.


CHEAP LABOR?


Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?


Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.


Consumers don't want expensive produce.


Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.


But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."


Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.


He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.


He qualifies for food stamps.


He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.


His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.


He requires bilingual teachers and books.


He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.


If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.


He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.


Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.


He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.


Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.


The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.


Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people. THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'”

“Agreed. Good post.”

“

Many immigrants were legal only because there were no rules

Sunday, July 22, 2007
BY BRIAN DONOHUE

There are many solid argu ments for why the United States should not grant legal status to illegal immigrants, as proposed in the Senate immigration reform bill quashed last month.

But throughout the immigra tion debate, one particular mantra was heard from opponents of legalization, perhaps more than any other:

"My ancestors came here legally."

So too, the argument holds, must today's immigrants. We're a nation of laws, we must be consistent, and we must not reward law breakers.

It's a mighty handy argument that worked wonders for oppo nents of the legalization bill. It's logical, and draws a clear moral distinction between previous generations of law-abiding immi grants and today's border-jumpers. It heads off allegations of xenophobia, allowing the speaker to say it's not immigrants he or she is against, just illegality.

It works, too, because it rings true with Americans. The images burned into our brains of previous immigration waves come largely from newsreels and photos of im migrants disembarking at Ellis Island, one at a time, orderly, legally.

There's one problem with the argument. It's utter hogwash.

First of all, for hundreds of years, as immigrants poured in by the hundreds of thousands from the 1600s to the early 1900s, there were simply no federal immigration laws to break.

Unless you were a criminal or insane (or after 1882, Chinese), once you landed here, you were legal.

Crediting yesteryear's immi grants with following the laws is like calling someone a good driver because they never got caught speeding on the Autobahn.

"Only 1 percent of people who showed up at Ellis Island were turned away," said Mae Ngai, author of "Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America."

"What that statement is ignorant of is that we didn't always have restrictions. It's a fairly recent phenomenon."

Level the playing field hypothetically, and the argument becomes even more preposterous.

Imagine today's immigration laws, which make it impossible for most poor foreign farmers to immi grate legally -- in effect in, say, in 1849.

Somewhere in Ireland, a starv ing farmer turns to his family, their mouths green from eating grass in the midst of the potato famine.

"We could escape to America and have food to eat," the farmer says. "But I'd never do that without a visa. That would be a viola tion of U.S. immigration law."

Ridiculous, of course. That farmer would have done exactly what today's Mexicans, Chinese and Guatemalans are doing by the millions -- get to the United States so they can feed their families, and worry about getting papers later.

Which brings us to the second reason the "my ancestors came legally" argument is absurd.

It's because lots of people's ancestors simply didn't.

Once Congress put immigration quotas in place to keep out less desirable Eastern and Southern Europeans in 1921, they began sneaking in by the thousands.

On June 17, 1923, the New York Times reported that W.H. Husband, commissioner general of im migration, had been trying for two years "to stem the flow of immi grants from central and southern Europe, Africa and Asia that has been leaking across the borders of Mexico and Canada and through the ports of the east and west coasts."

A story from the Sept. 16, 1927, New York Times describes government plans for stepped up Coast Guard patrols because thousands of Chinese, Japanese, Greeks, Rus sians and Italians were landing in Cuba and then hiring smugglers to take them to the United States, illegally.

Two years earlier, the immigra tion service reported that 1.4 million immigrants might be living illegally in the U.S., according to the immigration service's 1925 annual report.

"The figures presented are worthy of very serious thought, especially when it is considered that such a great percentage of our population ... whose first act upon reaching our shores was to break our laws by entering in a clandestine manner," the report found.

The problem got so bad that the government was forced to legalize an estimated 200,000 illegal European immigrants by a process called pre-examination. These days, the process would be called amnesty.

Clearly, if everyone's grandparents said they immigrated legally, someone's grandparents were lying.

"When people cite their grandparents, they're basically operating with a very limited understanding of what immigration was back then," said Edward O'Donnell, author of "1001 Things Everyone Should Know About Irish American History."

"There's nothing people are more proud of than these huddled masses yearning to breathe free. It's based on a very skewed or no knowledge of history."

Stanford University history professor Richard White discovered that after he began researching a book on his family's immigrant past.

White found his grandfather tried to immigrate from Ireland through Canada in 1936 because he could not get a visa under the quota laws.

"He tried to come through Detroit. It was hard to get caught at Detroit, but he managed to get caught," White said. Back in Canada, his grandfather called his brother, a Chicago police officer, who crossed the border and met him there. The two then walked to Detroit, his brother flashing his Chicago policeman's badge to U.S. customs officers who waved the pair through.

"I wouldn't be here, my brothers wouldn't be here if illegal aliens had been rounded up and dragged out," said White, a 1992 Pulitzer Prize finalist.

Few people say what White does in public. But since Ngai wrote her book in 2005, she has heard from some of them. They're not going on talk shows, blogging or writing letters to newspaper editors. But they're out there, even if they don't know it.

Perhaps if the Senate's legaliza tion bill comes around again, their story could be a rallying cry for those in favor of amnesty.

"Their voice drops to a whisper," Ngai says. "And they say to me, "you know, my grandparents came illegally."”

“Mods - please reclassify this thread as fuego.

Thanks.”

“Okay, okay A'll leave and go bauck to Cal'E'fornia mit Arnold.”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It would cost at least $94 billion to find, detain and remove all 12 million people believed to be staying illegally in the United States, the federal government estimated Wednesday.

Julie Myers, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, gave the figure during a hearing before a Senate committee Wednesday.

She acknowledged it was based on "very rough calculations."

An ICE spokesman later said the $94 billion did not include the cost of finding illegal immigrants, nor court costs -- dollar amounts that are largely unknowable.

He said the amount was calculated by multiplying the estimated 12 million people by the average cost of detaining people for a day: $97. That was multiplied by the average length of detention: 32 days.

ICE officials also considered transportation costs, which average $1,000 per person.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/12/deportation.cost/index.html”

“How much do we collect @ $10,000 per illigrant worker from the illiemployers?”

“94 B..... hey, that's only nine months in Iraq.”

“I've got a feeling that also doesn't count the cost of medical care, education, welfare, jailing, losses due to crime (including human loss) for those illegal immigrants. Throw in several 10s of thousands of rapes, how much is that worth?

But hey, she probably did include those figures ... LOL!

Screw average length of detention. The whole point is that the current system needs changed and they need thrown out immediately. No free jail. No packing your bags. You're out.

What a biased figure ...”

“If they ain't here they can't vote , so don't hold your breath for their departure.”

“Think they need to get those costs, along with medical etc and bill Mexico. If the Mexican Government refuses to pay, sieze some of the property in this country. If the situation was reversed they wouldn't give a whit about it.”

“Rudy is going to have problems with his base on this one.”

“amnesty is cheaper”

“Has anyone seen this? It was a letter written to an editor of an NC newspaper.

To the Editor:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your home you insist that I leave. But, I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors: I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest ... except for that part where I broke into your house.

"According to the protestors, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits for me and my family. My husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest ... except for that breaking in thing.

"If you try to call the police or force me out I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be here. It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest .... ummmmm .... except for that breaking in thing.

"Besides. What a deal it is for me! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being anti-housebreaker!

Did I miss anything? Does this sound reasonable to you? If it does, grab a sign and go picket something. If this sounds insane to you call your senators and enlighten them because they are stumbling in the darkness right now and really need your help.

(Name? _______________)”

“Here's an oldie but a goodie:

1. Try driving around as a Gringo in Mexico with no liability insurance, and have an accident.

2. Enter MEXICO illegally - never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.

3. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

4. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.

5. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.

6. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise.

7. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.

8. Demand a local Mexican drivers license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico.

9. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

Good luck!”

“Pam, I'm there now, in Extreme North Baja ( the once great CalEfornia).
last edited: 9/16/07 7:55:45 AM”

“well then i'm not too far north of you, in san diego”

“I think he's saying he's North of where you are ---”

“That's all cool, Pam.

But you left out one.......

10. Find a job in Mexico so you can send money back home to support your family.”

“That truckload of dy-no-mite didn't help the Mexican truck pilot program.”

“Join the Free Mexican Airforce, gringo!!”

“i need to go look at a map then.. .”

“baja IS south of me. what is he talking about?

and, oh, Good One MarkO! which makes me wonder. with all that money going south, why hasn't their economy improved yet?

and wthell am i doing on fuego, i swore i'd never come here?”

“Meet me for some Tecate in Tecate, no?”

“I would guess that with better democratic process in Mexico there might be more "sharing of the wealth" between the upper and lower classes there, less corruption.

Without immigrant workers sending money to Mexico it would likely be a bigger mess than it is.
Then we might see massive waves of economic refugees.”

“I may be mistook, but it sounded like "the once great CalEfornia" is now "Extreme North Baja".

I remember getting a chuckle when an Oklahoman kept referring to Texas as 'Baja Oklahoma,'    LOL       The Texans in the audience were Not Amused!”

“LOL...HYPCRISY and LIES...or Hillary Clinton


Remember the Government FREE MONEY HEALTH program will "Not" cover wetbacks?

welllllll......

The article was titled “Plan médico de Hillary Clinton incluiría a indocumentados” or, in English, “Medical plan of Hillary Clinton would include undocumented people.”

According to the article, Clinton told a reporter “plan de salud no incluye a inmigrantes indocumentados en este momento” in a phone interview. In English that quote literally means: “plan of health does not include undocumented immigrants at the moment.”

At the first-ever presidential Spanish-language debate on September 10, Clinton promised her audience her healthcare plan “will cover everyone.”

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2007/09/27/hillarycare_door_wide_open_to_illegal_aliens


OH this is great...and yet...the liberal media does not mention it. I think the fun part will be how far down they will go to find FUNDING. Yeah they will jack up tobacco rates...then when more and more people quit what's next? I am betting alchohol. Yep your beer will go for about $20.00 a case more...(LOL)”

“What's the news, you can have Blackwater or brownwater, but still not a drop to drink.”

“But I am certain there were be a way you can get Hillary's friends to pay YOUR money for it.”

“What was it that you said that neither I heard nor wanted to know?”

“your two posts this morning counters that argument.”

“PHOENIX - A 9-year-old boy looking for help after his mother crashed their van in the southern Arizona desert was rescued by a man entering the U.S. illegally, who stayed with him until help arrived the next day, an official said.

The 45-year-old woman, who eventually died while awaiting help, had been driving on a U.S. Forest Service road in a remote area just north of the Mexican border when she lost control of her van on a curve on Thanksgiving, Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada said.

The van vaulted into a canyon and landed 300 feet from the road, he said. The woman, from Rimrock, north of Phoenix, survived the impact but was pinned inside, Estrada said.

Her son, unhurt but disoriented, crawled out to get help and was found about two hours later by Jesus Manuel Cordova, 26, of Magdalena de Kino in the northern Mexican state of Sonora. Unable to pull the mother out, he comforted the boy while they waited for help.

The woman died a short time later.

"He stayed with him, told him that everything was going to be all right," Estrada said.

As temperatures dropped, he gave him a jacket, built a bonfire and stayed with him until about 8 a.m. Friday, when hunters passed by and called authorities, Estrada said. The boy was flown to University Medical Center in Tucson as a precaution but appeared unhurt.

"We suspect that they communicated somehow, but we don't know if he knows Spanish or if the gentleman knew English," Estrada said of the boy.

"For a 9-year-old it has to be completely traumatic, being out there alone with his mother dead," Estrada said. "Fortunately for the kid, (Cordova) was there. That was his angel."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071124/ap_on_re_us/immigrant_rescuer;_ylt=AvF5Itnf2qvv8ZOgI.hl3E.s0NUE”

“Meanwhile, Estrada had to abandon his original plans of being out on a remote forest road on Thanksgiving of drug trafficking. Sources say he was able to finish the job later that evening. Unfortunately, as a result of his actions, 7 other 9 year olds eventually become drug addicts, 2 of them dying of drug related causes, and 1 of a shooting during a drug deal gone bad. No word on the other 4, as they cannot be located by friends or family.
last edited: 11/24/07 8:55:42 AM”

“And Violin's point is??? Is his point contrary to something specific he heard or read??”

“Dang Noncon, you read my mind again. That was my first thought reading this. I had to put something on here worded in a way he'd understand, you know?”

“Yeah, kinda like the Saudi/Libya fighters link he posted on another thread......sad that he only posts links that leave people to assume what he's trying to say.”

“Having three violins is just too noisy.”

“Oh Well.”

“It is an interesting news story that is not entirely negative regarding an illegal immigrant who rather than being a heinous criminal is an angel of mercy in a tragic incident.
A bandito with a heart of gold?
Antonio Banderas can play the lead role.”