Backpack Design Input Wanted

“Hello Everyone,

I have had several conversations over the last day regarding the posts on this site. Overall, we are very impressed with the suggestions made on the 'Free Pack' thread.

So, with all due respect to the bashers out there, I would genuinely like to gather some features for our next pack design which we are baselining right now. (We are starting with some base packs and adding/combining features.)

Everyone on this board seems to have a great amount of ideas and/or experience. I would like to tap into the experience and creativity since our packs are designed and manufactured to exact specifications.

Here is a list of features commonly found on backpacks. Please comment on them and let me know what would be the ideal pack. (Copy and paste the list below and fill in your ideas on this board or email to Management@AdventureMaster.com)

Loading capacity (cubic inches):
Loading options (top/botom/side):
Maximum Weight:
Look and Shape:
Color (combos or solid):
Torso:
Hipbelt:
Strapping:
Suspension System:
Ice Axe Loops
Frame (internal/external):
Frame Materials:
Backpack Materials:
Pockets (how many/location)
Hydration Sleeve?)
Section divider:
Water Bottle Holster:
Propane Bottle Holster:
Shovel Pocket:
Daisy Chain Location:
Pack Dimensions (maximum)
Size:
Expected Retail $:

If you are comparing to a feature on another pack, email a picture of it to us for our collective design.

Keep in mind that we can have anything designed into it. So, if there are any features that are not listed above, list them.
Go into a lot of detail in explaining things and how they are intended to work. (Example was a post about leaning pockets toward the front of the wearer, how do they hold things in if the person leans over? Velcro/draw string?)

I will post the consensus of features for review and comments. Then we will have a sample model designed with the overall agreed features for everyone to see. If it goes over well, we will bring it on as our new model.

Thanks again for all of the great input.


Happy Hiking!

Adventure Master”

“You could start by filling out your user profile...a few of us skeptical types are still not convinced that you're for real. :-)”

“Loading capacity (cubic inches): depends on use. summer 3500-4000, winter 5000-6000
Loading options (top/botom/side): definitely top, with zippable bottom compartment for sleeping bag. side pockets are very handy.
Maximum Weight: 3.5-4 lbs. for smaller bag, 4-5 for larger
Look and Shape: dunno
Color (combos or solid): either or. two tone is nice, so long as the contrast isn't too great. nothing terribly flashy though, i don't think most backpackers like to stand out too much in that respect.
Torso: dunno
Hipbelt: dunno
Strapping: dunno
Suspension System: dunno
Ice Axe Loops: definitely
Frame (internal/external): internal
Frame Materials: fiberglass
Backpack Materials: whatever's strong and light.. i don't want a bag that's going to rip after a few uses though.
Pockets (how many/location): my mountainsmith pack has two large side pockets that i really like.
Section divider: for bag and top compartment
Water Bottle Holster: yes, elastic drawstrings to hold in place would be a plus
Propane Bottle Holster: nah
Shovel Pocket: nah
Daisy Chain Location: across the front of the bag.
Pack Dimensions (maximum)
Size: i'm tall, and have broad shoulders, so no worries
Expected Retail $: 200-250?”

“I like the color rust. You can do whatever you want with the rest of the specs, just make the color rust.

Thanks,

Jay”

“Don't you backpack? Seems like someone who uses backpacks would know how large they need to be, where it's convinient to have pockets, etc. Maybe you should sign up for a big group trip and look at how people pack, what they use and what features they love.”

“AdventureMaster is a real company.
We corresponded by email and phone yesterday and I'm expecting a pack in the mail today.”

“The political affiliation of the pack is important.

Does the pack support Gun control?”

“I liked DeoreDX’s suggestion on the other thread.

-~3500ci main body with compression system to since it down to at least 2000ci comfortably.
-Mesh side pockets to hold a 32oz Nalgene that is angled forward so one can remove a bottle from it without removing the pack
-Large mesh pocket on the back with a lace system to hold and secure wet items without having to put them in the pack.
-Inside zip security pocket with a built in lanyard to old and keep ones keys and valuables.
-hip pouches! I love hip pouches
-sternum strap
-Would be great to see some sort of pocket designed maybe incorporated into the sternum strap to hold various small items, like lip balm, compass, energy bar or two.
-Ultralight materials is not a must, Osprey can made a super sturdy 3000ci size parge pack in the Aether 45 @ 2lbs that doesn't use any lightweight materials, just a lightweight design. Keep it around 2.5lbs and if it carries well enough the lightweighters will look at it as an option.

DeoreDX
09:37:14 AM
03/10/04
ignore this user”

“Their parent company, Global Trading Corp., is listed on Dun and Bradstreet but I couldn't find any information on 'em. What makes me so very skeptical is their apparent lack of knowledge of backpacking gear. I'll reserve further judgement until HPM gives his report.”

“Buddha Bear is from the Rust Belt, go figure.

Size:
60 to 70 liter/3600 to 4200 for weekend or three season
85 to 100 liter/5000 to 6000 for long trips and winter

Frame:
Internal
Frame material:
Composite or aluminum

Weight:
3.5-4 lb small
5-6 lb large

Pockets:
One large on top(keep it simple)
Bottom front access zipper for sleeping bag with inner divider that either zips out of the way or is a collar with draw string that can be used or not.
Note:
I almost never use the divider for the sleeping bag compartment.
I just shove everthing down to the bottom and sometime remove the sleeping bag by way of the access zipper.

Sleeping pad straps with fastex buckles.

Hip belt:
Should be removable for size changes AND for duffle packing for air travel.

Shoulder straps should have some vertical adjustment and hipbelt should have several sizes and be removable.

Rain cover is a must.

See serratus.com and take a look at Condor(5900/5 lb), Summit(4600/4.8 lb) and Icefall(3500/3.7 lb).
These packs are inexpensive, light and simple.”

“Yeah Father, I gotta wonder if this guy is a passionate wilderness nut like some of us or just some corporate guy trying to get a piece of the market.”

“corporate guy trying to get a piece of the market....I'd rather buy from someone who designed from experience.”

“Actually the parent company is called Glabal Trade Base. Adventure Master Paid a fee to join...
http://www.globaltradebase.com/join/join.html

Veddy interestink...”

“Scheiss!!! That would be 'Global' Trade Base...”

“I would never by gear from a company that doesn't know what gaiters are.”

“I think gator meat is highly overrated...”

“Yah, but 'gator cowboy boots? Sweeet.”

“How about gator skin gaiters?”

“Yeah, I'd like to have a pair, but they're highly overpriced...especially condidering that the animals have been farmed for the past several years. It's not like they're exotic or scarce or anything...”

“I think it would be a cool novelty item.”

“Yah really.”

“The pack, the gaiters or the boots???”

“Upon futher conDideration, lol...”

“All three. Maybe I'd win one of backpacker mags fashion awards.”

“You are good. I will be happy to answer any question or address any concerns in a mature manner. Actually, the parent company is Global Trade Base. We import high quality products under our brand name for distribution in the United States. These items are manufacturered to our specifications. We are also evaluating other products currently including sleeping bags, flashlights, binoculars, first aid kits and a few others. We also export U.S. food and consumer goods.

Personally speaking, I have some backpacking experience. I have done one 80 mile and one 120 mile Philmont trek (probably more miles since we got lost a couple of times.) Also, I have done several in Colorado with friends. But, I make no claims about being a backpacking expert. I just do love the mountains. I have used our Bandolier expedition pack and it does work great.

As for our next model, it seems to me that most backpack purchasers are just given a selection off the shelf rather than an opportunity to have input into actual design. I do realize that some people will bash everything at every opportunity. But, you have to admit that it is cool to have your experience and advice accepted to build a better product.

The intent here is genuine and also rather experimental. It just seems to make more sense to seek the experience of many rather than hiring some engineer who has never worn a pack.

Your input is going to be listened to.

Thanks again,

Adventure Master Products”

“If you don't use a top pocket which I suggest you don't to keep the weight down, the roll top closure of the Osprey Aether 45 is bar-none the best pack closure system I have ever used. Beats the pants off of a draw cord or zipper. You don't have to worry about water leaking down into the pack. It's very secure, simple, and VERY sturdy.”

“Oh yeah... I agree with what that DeoreDX guy said on the other post.”

“I like my top pocket. That's where I store my rain gear and headlamp.”

“I can tell already that these ideas are going to lead to two different models. (An ultralight and an ultra-ultralight.) That is a good thing.

www.AdventureMaster.com”

“I agree with Sass that Adventure should go and get more experience in the backcountry. Take a big trip and at least every night there is a conversation about gear. Plus, the more miles on you, the more you understand what a pack should be for the wearer. Packs are as specific to a person as shoes. You can buy a pair of shoes that are not in a box and the laces are tied together with the blue light on and they will problably fit. They problably won't fit perfectly.

Devote a year to backpacking with TT trips and you will have all the information you will every need. You will also gain the respect of this group. TT can be a great support group if you can prove yourself to be respectable.”

“The mesh pocket on the back is for your rain gear ;)”

“very cool, AdvMstr! :-)

i'm going with a yes on the top pocket, yes to the water bottle holster, yes to the rain cover attached, and whoever suggested a cute little pocket on the front where you can reach it with the pack on, that's a good one! as to torso length, mine is adjustable, it rocks.”

“as to torso length, mine is adjustable, it rocks."
lyra
09:15:29 AM
03/11/04

Really? My torso length is fixed at 21". What do you do lyra, get on the stretching rack?”

“Bbinkly started with very little experience too if you remember. If so many of us didn't personally know him like him and respect him and he showed up asking questions like Adventure master y'all would have trashed him.

And because AdvMstr is already in business means he can't possibly be interested in what y'all think and want out of a pack? Don't we get tons of posts here about businesses that don't listen to the needs of the customer?

Thank God I already know a bunch you otherwise I'd get destroyed when I get my superlight bear can design finished. Whenever I can find the time to do that I still don't know.”

“Do you run a union shop?”

“Binkley doesn't claim to be a gear designer. He is, rather, a merchant of established, name-brand gear.”

“Ok, time for me to enter rant mode. I have been keeping my trap shut for a long time, but it's time to clear the air.

TT has become a very closed community lately, and it is really starting to hinder it. Here is an example of a legit company, who understands the experience level of TT, and wants to make a product that will appeal to the market. Many people are taking this seriously, however there are many people that are trashing them for sounding inexperienced.

I always remember that there is always someone smarter than me, someone who hikes more than me, someone who makes more money than me, somone who has more gear than me. Basically, there is always someone out there who can upstage me in whatever I do. By remembering that, it helps me treat others better.

If you are bashing someone for being inexperienced, there is someone out there who could also consider you inexperienced in their eyes. This message board is meant to help people, not trash them because they don't cut the handle off their toothbrush or eat Inertia meals.

The thing that I hate most is the close mindedness towards new comers. I understand there is a troll problem, but that doesn't mean any new person should always be labeled a troll. This obsession with trolls is causing the community to be arrogant and a bully. Some people's first response is, "show up to a TT hike and I will believe you are real." This isn't a good way to prove themselves. Many people don't want to go hiking with strangers they met on the Internet. Because I am a lurker by nature, tt took me years to publically meet my first TTer.

I am going to try to close this rant by saying that TT should be a place for all backpackers, not just the gear heads or trail hos. If you really want to help push the backpacking world forward, the opportunity to work with Adventure Master is a great place to start.”

“I know that and you miss my point.”

“That was for FG not Matt.”

“Oh yeah, I got the pack a few minutes ago.

Thanks AdventureMaster I'll be getting back to you soon.”

“(...hangs head and shuffles foot in dirt...)”

“HumanPackMule,

I am glad you received it. We put in some extra things for your scouts too. Let me know what you think of the trail mixes. I personally like the spicy mountain mix.”

“Excellent post Matt. Something IMHO everyone on TT needs to read.”

“Matt, even if this situation hadn't happened, all that needed to be said.”

“Nice question Buddha Bear!

I don't think there are any labor unions in China.

We'll organize them eventually.

Advtrmstr, lightweight is cool with me as long as its not flimsy.”

“I'm a little late to this thread, and, yes, I posted a couple of jokes on the other thread. Anyway, I'm shopping for a pack, and it seems (in my admittedly limited search so far) that the choices are either a 2-3 pound ultralight pack or a 6-7 pound expedition pack. I like the idea of carrying <30 lbs total (so an ultralight pack would work), but I often take my son (and less often my wife - she has agreed to backpack with me/us once every decade), and carry a healthy portion of his/their load. So I don't have any specific design suggestions, other than maybe there's an opportunity to fill that mid-range gap (if it really is a gap).”

“DeoreDX really nailed it for my way of hiking. I'm going to print out his suggestions and try to modify my pack a bit. I use a Moonbow Gearskin and could easily modify it myself.”

“I just received a very nice e-mail from the president of Global Trade Base. Since I trashed him on a public forum, I shall apologize in the same manner.

Patrick, you have my sincere apology for acting like an ass. If I can be of any assitance to your company, I shall do my best.










The rest of you knuckleheads don't need to go getting any ideas...;-)”

“Nyuk, nyuk!!!”

“Who you callin' a knucklehead, knucklehead!”