“A column from the Bigfork Eagle, a weekly paper near Glacier National Park:

The column online

Cool, fairly clean, water
By G. GEORGE OSTROM

Last Tuesday's meeting of the Thursday's Over the Hill Gang got on the subject of "drinking water" in Glacier Park. We decided that none of us have ever heard a ranger, or any other employee of the Park, remotely suggest it was OK to drink the water ... ANYWHERE in Glacier. One fella recalled seeing an older couple at Fifty Mountain Camp carrying enough water to drink, cook and wash dishes. We're talking several gallons here hauled from the road. Unbelievable!

Park employees have no choice but to tell all visitors to not drink the water. One person gets giardia and they'd sue for sure. I do not work for the Park. I do not ask the rangers if I can drink the water. In the average summer, I fill my canteen a hundred times from running streams, springs, dripping rocks and snow banks. My one rule is to not drink water from a large lake or stream below beaver activity. This reminded me of my great glee in reading a story by Roland Cheek years ago.
Roland's tale was about fishing in the wilderness, in the nude. It resulted in a letter from one Jean Cross of Sunnyvale, Calif. Reiterating her complaint, "I am very concerned about you jumping into pristine streams to clean off your dusty and sweaty body. No wonder we backpackers can't afford to take a chance on drinking mountain waters."

Not being heartless, I fret for Ms. Cross and wish she could enjoy the great outdoors the way I do. I have gotten to know and understand reality.

In August of 1950 while I was building the horse fence at Salmon Forks in the Bob Marshall, I was taking my afternoon government break on the edge of the river and a large grizzly wandered along the east bank. It was just moseying until it seemed to be feeling some discomfort while facing out across the water. After a moment, it did a slow 180 and went ... in that pristine water. We're talking world class purple poo-poo here, launched deliberately toward Portland, Ore., by way of Columbia Falls. An ounce or two of ol' Guide sweet is nothin' to a guy like me.

On dozens of occasions, I have witnessed elk and deer crossing or playing in lakes, streams or rivers, and they went. Moose are absolutely abysmal in their toilet habits. Probably the power of suggestion ... like people in swimming. Then we could talk about otters, beaver, ducks and ouzels. Do not for one minute forget the fish. The things those slippery little devils do in our pristine mountain streams is a whole 'nother smoke.

The previously mentioned "mental adjustment" has to do with VOLUME. The South Fork of the Flathead River generates millions of gallons of water per hour, which weighs billions of tons. It doesn't take much arithmetic to see that a few pints of grizzly scat or elk water gets diluted mighty fast. You can sit on the bank of that river, or in Sunnyvale, Calif., and worry about it, or you can relax and go with the flow. I've drunk from a thousand rivulets, dripping rocks and rivers without physical or mental discomfort.

In my 60 plus years of hiking in Glacier Park, I enjoyed every minute of every hike, including those many times we cooled our aching and tired feet in some babbling mountain stream. Sorry about that Ms. Cross.

George Ostrom is the news director of KOFI Radio and a Flathead Publishing Group columnist.”

“purple?”

“cool liz. that was interesting.”

“does it mean not drink it at all, or dont drink it without treating?”

“Read it 2poops. READ IT! Since neither of your questions is what the article is saying.”

“LMAO lizs!”

“I'm even considering boiling my tap water.
"Anything under 104 enterococci organisms per 100 milliliters -- about seven table spoons -- is considered safe."

"An influx of migratory birds is another possible contributor."

The Sebastian Inlet connects to the the Indian River, part of the Inland Waterway. Because of contamination I quit catching river blue crabs, shrimp and clams years ago.”

“The fecal coliform is EVERYWHERE! It's going to take over the world!


AHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh”

“lizsard, is that any way to speak to your beloved?”

“The columnist, if I read it right -- and I think I did -- is saying that even though animals may take a dump in the water, that there is so much fresh water that it dilates it to safe levels. He is saying DRINK THE MOUNTAIN WATER **WITHOUT** FILTERING!

Isn't that right? Anyone else actually read it?? lol”

“The way I read it, someone has been pushing their luck, tempting fate.

What is a "safe level" for giardia?”

“We're a paranoid society that wants everything 100% safe and guaranteed. The amount of giardia in the water in the high sierra is minimal.

You're statistically far more likely to die from breathing our polluted air in the valleys that anything you drink in the mountains. So if you're worried & fretful, just stop breathing.... problem solved!”

“That's the way I read it too liz. He's sayign that he's been drinking it "raw" for years with no prob.

But then so have Mexican's --- there's something to be said for "being used to it" I think.

The only water I don't filter is what I collect from a running spring, right there where it comes out of the ground.”

“Here's the thing I don't understand: People seem to think that filtering water is comparable to the labors of Hercules. It only take a few minutes to filter all the water you'll need for dinner and the next day, what's the big deal? It's not like you're treating sewage. Jeez.”

“I don't like to carry extra weight. I leave my water filter at home.”

“That's fine, if you're willing to take the risk. What I can't stand is people #&%!$ing about filtering water. It's not that hard. Damn, people, you hike 11 miles to a backcountry campsite and then #&%!$ like a crackwhore about have to do a little pumping?”

“Always drink from mountain streams... NEVER gotten sick because of it.”

“Same here, turbo.”

“I have drank from lakes in Quetico Provincial Park and never got sick.”

“Gee, its surprising that humankind survived for centuries without chlorine to listen to some!

I think that unfiltered from a mountain stream is much safer then chlorinated, flouridated water from most reservoirs. It tastes a lot better too!”

“I backpacked for twenty years before I ever heard of filter pumps.

For all those years I drank out of side creeks and springs and have never gotten sick.

I did avoid the major creeks and rivers and was aware of where the water came from.”

“I've drunk untreated water in the Rockies, and Quetico. In Quetico only because the filter failed!

But I'm concerned about the purple poop in the water when it happended just a few minutes before I got to the stream--in the exact same place.

EEEEEEEEEWwwwwwwwwwwwuuuuuuuuuu!”

“I've drunk untreated water in the sierra without any ill effect...I wouldnt here though....being that this is the most POLLUTED state in the USA.”

“"I think that unfiltered from a mountain stream is much safer then chlorinated, flouridated water from most reservoirs........."


I agree 100% All flouridated water does is sap and impurify all of our peressous bodily fluids!!”

“it's a bush conspiracy, laq”

“I want to pee in the water. But don worry, pee is sterel so you can drink it.”

“No, IT'S A COMMUNIST CONSPIRACY!

GOD! I have to lead you everywhere, don't I?”

“"I want to pee in the water. But don worry, pee is sterel so you can drink it.........."

Not mine, sister. It'll melt a hole in the hull of a battleship.....”

“speaking ofpee...gotta gonow!”

“Here is an interesting article and some excerpts from it:
Giardia Lamblia and Giardiasis
With Particular Attention to the Sierra Nevada
By Robert L. Rockwell, PhD

How many cysts does it take to get the disease? Theoretically only one, but volunteer studies have shown that 10 or so are required to have a reasonable probability of contracting giardiasis: About one-third of persons ingesting 10 – 25 cysts get detectable cysts in their stools

What they did find is that Giardia and other intestinal bugs are for the most part spread by direct fecal-oral or food-borne transmission, not by contaminated drinking water. Since personal hygiene often takes a backseat when camping, the possibility of contracting giardiasis from someone in your own party—someone who is asymptomatic, probably—is real.

Outside of the Sierra, Giardia cysts in concentrations “as high as four per gallon [§]” have been detected in untreated water in northeastern and western states. [39] But even with this concentration, one would have to consume over nine liters of water to have a 50 percent chance of ingesting 10 or more cysts.

Below Units are cysts per liter.

Concentration ---- Comment

~1000 ----- Typical swimming pool contamination
~100 ------- Giardiasis is plausible [**]
~10 --------- Minimum needed to contract giardiasis**
~1 ----------- Some wilderness water outside California
0.12 --------- San Francisco water
0.108 ------- Worst Sierra Nevada water
0.030 ------- Los Angeles water
0.013 ------- Mt. Whitney at Trail Camp
0.003 ------- Mt. Whitney at Whitney Portal

Conclusions

In a recent letter [42] the Supervisor of the Inyo National Forest admitted: “As to whether or not Giardia exists in the Sierra, we are not in a position to state a fact one way or the other.” This is a significant admission. So why do they persist in informing everyone that giardiasis is a potential hazard when visiting the Sierra Nevada?

First: They know that some waters might be contaminated by something, and Giardia is the organism on people’s minds so needs no elaboration. Contaminated water is certainly possible at lower elevations and in some locales. Noting in particular that novice hikers cannot be expected to make correct choices of which sources may be safe to drink, they point out that a conservative approach is to treat all water.

Second: If a person believes, albeit incorrectly, that they contracted giardiasis from Sierra Nevada water, they cannot accuse the Forest Service of not warning them. Potential confrontations are therefore avoided.

Unfortunately, this approach results in an incorrect perception of overall water quality in the Sierra by the general public. It also means that if someone contracts a gastrointestinal illness after a visit, they will be more apt to blame the water, having been “forewarned” that all water is suspect. And so the myth is perpetuated.

Untreated Sierra Nevada water should be, almost everywhere, safe to drink—if you “drink smart.” If you don’t “drink smart” you may ingest diarrhea-causing organisms. But it won’t be Giardia.

Because up to 1 in 14 of us carries the Giardia parasite, we all need to do what we can to keep the water pure. Defecate away from water, and bury it or carry it out.

Camp cooks in particular need to pay special attention to cleanliness. Wash hands thoroughly, especially before handling utensils and preparing meals. If you contract giardiasis in the backcountry, blame your friends…not the water.

High Sierra water has far too few Giardia cysts for you to contract an infestation from it. Even if you go somewhere where the concentration is high, you probably won't get giardiasis. If you do get giardiasis, you probably won't have any symptoms. If you have symptoms, they will probably go away by themselves in a week or so. If they don't or you develop serious persistent symptoms, you should seek medical treatment. Finally, those contracting giardiasis may develop immunity to it, thus lowering the likelihood that they will get it again.

There is certainly no reason for anxiety about giardiasis. Fewer than 1 percent of those who have an infestation, or about 5 percent of those with symptoms, need medical help.

Recommendation

Our wilderness managers are in a position to educate the outdoor public about the real culprit in the Giardia lamblia story: inadequate human hygiene. When they acknowledge that Sierra Nevada water has fewer Giardia cysts than, for example, the municipal water supply of the city of San Francisco, maybe they will turn their attention to it.

The thrust of the following observation is long overdue:

“Given the casual approach to personal hygiene that characterizes most backpacking treks, hand washing is likely to be a much more useful preventative strategy than water disinfection! [††] This simple expedient, strictly enforced in health care, child care, and food service settings, is rarely mentioned in wilderness education materials.” 2”

“"#&%!$ like a crackwhore about have to do a little pumping"

isnt that what crackwhores do?”

“I have read several articles recently. I have also chatted with other hikers. Twigeater, for example, almost never filters from BSP, no problems. I know another hiker, who did the At and used his filter religiously, and got the big G (Okay, okay, I can't spell it!!).

I drank water from any running water source for as long as I can remember, no problems. But as the original post points out, the rangers are lawyer bound to tell you to filter. And really, is it all that hard?

Seems that a couple articles I have read, one was linked from this forum a few months back or so, indicate, that while beavers get the blame, the leading cause is human, far and away. It is linked to unsanitary practices, particularly when toilet paper is used. Seems the soft tissue paper is not an effective barrier against the big G. A little hand washing could go a long ways.

Which brings me to my own life experience. I have worked on construction sites for .... well let's just say it is longer than many of you have lived..... There is no running water, and used to be, there were no toilets, just a shovel and a big tree. If you were lucky, there was mud puddle, but it meant getting your hands wet.... None of us construction workers ever had a problem with it.

It's not like you'll automatically catch it. It is talked about a lot, and it can ruin a hike, real fast. And it does happen. And the beavers get the blame.

I am real interested in the reality of things here. First, who here has actually ever contracted it? Second, who actually knows a person, by name, who has actually contracted it?

Let's be honest now, and watch out for the "I was at woodstock" syndrone. Woodstock only had so many people there, and today 400 million will say they were there.

So let's get scientific now: Who has actually contracted it, and who actually knows someone by name who has contracted.

I'll start: Chewy got it while he was religiously using his filter on a thru hike. Beyond that I know of no one else who has actually contracted it.”

“i liken not filtering water to not wearing a seat belt or not wearing a seat belt. you could drink backcountry water a 1000 times and not get giardia. you could also ride in a car a 1000 times and not get in a wreck. does that mean youll never wear your seat belt? think about it”

“heh...bitpusher said crackwhore!!”

“Stormy, if you get it once, you'll feel bad for awhile and then get over it and have more resistance to it in the future. One can't say the same thing about car accidents :)”

“Here is one statistic from one state:

"During 2002, 982 cases of Giardia infection (20.0 per 100,000 population) were reported."
Minnesota Dept. of Health

You can find statistics for NJ by following this link: New Jersey Reportable Disease Statistics for 2001 - 2004 (PDF)

I'm convinced that giardia exists.

It is possible to develop immunity to it, which may explain the Mexican's immunity to it.”

“Damn word filter...

OK the word that got censored in my previous posting was b!tch. Not #&%!$, or #&%!$, or anything like that.”

“"you'll feel bad for awhile"

slight understatement there

from what ive heard about giardia, id rather have a head-on”

“interesting article lizs!

After all the fuss about filtering..... on a hike 2 weeks ago. Several of the persons on the trip ran out of water. We were on a dry ridge so tough luck. Once we started to descend into a drainage area and head off the mtn. we came to a spring. I saw experienced hikers fill their water bottles and drink deeply. Not one of them filtered that water. None of them got sick far as I've heard.
I had plenty of water and no need to refill so I didn't do it.

But like I am so fond of saying..... we must all learn to live in balance with our parasites! LMAO

I've had mine for 39 yrs now. I don't wanna p!$$ 'em off.”

“of course its much much safer to drink from a spring cuz you can see the source”

“When I was a kid I drank from running water or collected from the center of a pristine mountain lake. Now, I filter just about everything. If I have to drink unfiltered water, I'll drink it from a spring.”

“i pee in streams as often as possible. GW Bush taught me how to do that so i could help him destroy the environment....”

“I was just remembering this. Where my grandfather lived, his home was pinched in between a high hill and a trout stream in NE Iowa. He had no running water, other than that which came out of a spring across the road from his short driveway.

We drank out of that all the time. I almost think it went into a tank (an open tank??) and then out a pipe. Yes, despite the fact cows roamed the hillside above as pasture. We didn't get sick. It was the BEST water!

And yes, I suppose the water we were drinking had filtered on its own through a lot of layers to get out impurities. But... there were those cows on the hill.......

The last time I was in the area that spring was still running.”

“The finish line is still the grave yard.”

“okay. so how about other water-borne pathogens, like Cryptosporidium?

I continue to filter.”

“I know someone. From what he said it's not a matter of "feeling bad for awhile" but of being able, at most, to crawl to help!

Don't you all wonder about parasites too? You all want a big fat tapeworm? (Their eggs are in MI water)”

“I trusted mountain stream water.....










Once.











Never again.”

“His name is "Herman". He keeps me from getting TOO fat. He would be a good idea to share on the loosing weight in 2004 thread.”

“LOL! I knew a gal who had some kind of parasites. (Her hubby was a vet, which I suppose is neither here nor there. They weren't backpackers.)

It is true that while making you feel bad, parasites do help you lose weight. Not that I recommend it. LOL! She lost a bunch before they got the problem solved... and did feel like crap.”