4-23-04 Knobstone Trail Trip:

“just what i'm trying to do, hubby!




now FO and ESAD.




:-o”

“GrizBait, if you like squirrels, you will like the Knobstone. Last June Ultra Pecker and I watched a midsize Grey Squirrel appeared on the base of an oak tree leaning out over Elk Creek Lake. The squirrel had noticed an acorn precarious balanced on top a low overhanging twig on a branch just above the water. With its hind legs grasping the overhanging branch, the squirrel leaned forward with its front paws to grab the nut off the twig, as soon as its front paws touched that nut the biggest bass I have ever seen in my lifetime blew up, jumped completely out of the water and engulfed that squirrel. Comparatively it looked like a full-grown Musky nabbing a May Fly. Our jaws just fell open thinking what the #$%^ was that! We had never seen a bass so large and capable of doing such a deed. We both agreed that was the most amazing thing we'd ever seen! Or so we thought. We had been standing there wishing we could have photographed this for Webshots for Trail Talk when all of a sudden that same bass came out of the water and placed another acorn nut on the eact same twig.

GrizBait, ask not what a persons pack weight WILL be unless you want another squirrel story on Trail Talk. Ask what his pack weight was on his last trip. I just got back from a week end backpacking in Iowa with Hubcap and six others, and my start weight with food and NO water was 26 pounds by scale. And my pack wasn't the lightest on that trip. The Knobstone trip should allow me to take a lighter sleeping bag (save 8 ounces) and less water, but if rain is possible, I'll end up taking a space blanket as a cooking tarp. With the cars at Elk Creek Lake, I only have to take two days of food since I can resupply from a car on Sunday before dinner.”

“Good one Mr. P! Somehow, a mysterious protocol seems to shroud you backpacking types.
Frankly, outside of you, P, and Indy Hawk, many dudes seem like a-holes. I thought backpacking would be a good way to lose 15-20 pounds, but I guess I haven't joined the click. Probably cuz I haven't really wupped up a trail yet.

Dude, say 5-7 pounds for each of the following: pack, tent, sleeping, water, kitchen, clothes, food, misc, and oh yes, recreational beverages. That's fifty pounds easy, even if I limit it to one six pack. I'll have to see how you do it. Thanks.”

“No Mystery:

GoLite 4,00 cu. in. backpack = 1.25 pounds
North Face Canyonlands Tent = 3.5 pounds
38 degree down bag = 1.5 pounds
3/4 lenght inflatable sleeping pad = 1.5 pounds
Tarp = .95 pounds
Water = 2 pounds
151 rum = .55 pounds
1.3 liter titanium pot + titanium cup = .66 pounds
clothes = 4 pounds
Fresh food @ 3.25 pounds per day

Under 23 pounds.

Clique: No clicks here. Anyone can join. Last week end Iowa trip had people from age 26 to 55, contractors, business owners, unemployed, editor, engineer, government workers, and all walks of life and background, and a great time by all. You should have seen Lizs drunk with people she never met in person before!

#&%!$s: What newbies don't realize, a lot of people here on Trail Talk have at, one time or another, met or backpacked with someone. You can joke around very roughly with a friend that would be insulting to a total stranger. Does being a backpacker immunize one from being an #&%!$? No. But a-holes don't get invited on future trips. This subtle peer pressure brings out the best in people. Staggering out of a bar drunk in Chicago could run you into trouble. Get drunk on a trip on a backpacking trip, you might be the butt of a few jokes in the morning.”

“I walked the Low Gap again today and cut 40 minutes off my time. Wahooo, I may make it on the Knob without dying, yet! :) The weather was sunny and absolutely perfect.
I did decide I need to get new shoes. My Montrail Java's are hammering my toes on the downhill - probably should've ordered a half size larger - otherwise it's a great shoe.
I'm going to carry a full pack and do some flat work this week and then hit the Low Gap again with a full pack.
Gee, Griz, if we don't lose some weight doing this I don't know what will do it! :)
Prosecutor - do you have an email address and are you collecting email addresses of the Knob groupies, or, uhm... greenies... :)
I emailed you a week or so ago, but your listed TT email address box was full.

It's so great to be on the trail!”

“IndyHawk, a lot of people would say I am full of it. Try the email again. I am not collecting email addresses, but I will turn my cell phone on when I leave the house very early Friday morning to collect last second messages. My cell is 708-341-2302. Parts of the Knobstone is not within cell coverage, so it is hit and miss to get someone on the trail. My cell phone has mailbox messages, and the phone usually shows a waiting message when I re-enter coverage area.

Try using a slightly thinner sock if your hiking boot/show is hitting your toe on the downhill. And do not worry about speed. We have all day to do the milage. G-Force said he is going to try to make the trip, but will start hiking at Deam Trailhead Saturday morning, and hike 21.2 miles to make it to our expected Saturday night campsite. And he is 50. Now that is speed.”

“Thanks for your number, Prosecutor. I'll try your email again. The speed thing is only about getting to Low Gap, hiking the 10-11 miles and getting home before my kids do! :) The first time I hiked it they were with their Dad in MA and time wasn't important. This trip I managed to do it and still meet the bus! :)”

“GrizBait, I did not mean to offend, though I am guessing you are not one easily offended. Prosecutors pack weighed 26lbs this weekend and he was still carrying heavy-a$$ food to make venison burritos one night and a killer chicken/thai dish the next. Get on his good side and you will not only learn tricks to lighten up but also possibly get to sample his trail fare.”

“I am already planning to go to Mammoth Cave that weekend so will not have a chance to go on this trip. But Prosecutor, I look forward to meeting you on a future trip. I am a court reporter and have great respect for your convictions record.

I'd like the opportunity to have great respect for your trail cooking as well. Your reputation in that regard reaches far and wide.”

“Vicsaw, after 29 years in the business, do I have some funny court reporter stories. You probably have some equally good trial lawyer snafu stories. I do hope we can connect up in the future. Court reporters are great people.”

“I can't wait to hear them. Here's a couple for you:

- A witness who had read and signed the deposition returned the errata sheet with the following information: Page 21, Line 14, what it said: "A. Yes, I did." What it should have said: "A. No, I didn't." Reason for change? "I lied."

- Reporter swears in the witness. Takes the deposition. At the end of the deposition, the witness asks the reporter, "Can you unswear me now? I can't keep telling the truth all the time... I'm married."


We could probably start a new thread with all the material available. LOL”

“Hey, prosecutor, you're in B-I-G T-R-O-U-B-L-E now!!

gforce is ....... ummm... 39!! I'm sure that's what he said!!

(yeah and to see my soooooooo drunk you'll just have to show up at the NEXT hike I plan.... hehehe)”

“Vicsaw, I'm having trouble stopping laughing. I hope you made a copy of that errata sheet.

Lizs, G-force is in great shape and may look like a 39 year old beef cake to your eyes, but don't bet the ranch on it.”

“Alright, hubby, yeah I'm thick skinned, but call someone a troll, not too many ways to take it. Apology accepted. Maybe I will measure up to your standards before too long, and I'll buy you a cold one.

Yeah, Indy, I thought this web site was more of a cocktail social, and not to say its not, but I'm gathering its also many hardened professionals. I've got to lose 10+ pounds, front and back! I thought about asking if you want to shared a tent to save weight (my wife can vouch I'm not a snorer), but that's probably tackty too. I catch your drift; I will be getting out the next couple of weekends for some serious hiking.

So P-man, asking a man's pack weight is like asking a woman her age. Who'd a thunk it? If any other obvious rules of the road come to mind, clue me in. I see you (1) have better gear, and (2) are more confident about what to take. I'll bet you didn't get there overnight. I'll even beat you in one category. A package of Mountain House don't weigh much.

Just realized you could click on a name and see whatever people have there. Of course, yours truly, nada. After deep consideration, as part of my disfunctional internet paranoia, I'll leave it that way for the time being. Suffice to say I live in the state and have a 3-4 hour drive to the trailhead.

The second half started. Guess I'll go watch Uconn romp.”

“Griz, lighter gear than some for sure, but better gear? Maybe? Maybe not? You be the judge:

GoLite 4,000 cu. in. backpack = $99
North Face Canyonlands Tent = Free (Christmas gift certificates, REI dividend, and REI 20% off coupon)
38 degree down bag = $150
3/4 lenght inflatable sleeping pad = $60
Tarp = $12
1.3 liter titanium pot + titanium cup = Christmas gifts

total = $321.00

Rule number one in backpacking gear: more expensive does not necessarily mean better gear. For example, last week end in Iowa, someone boiled up water just as fast over the campfire with his $5 WalMart Grease Pot, than my gift 1.3 liter titanium pot that cost my daughter $45.”

“"Apology accepted" - ???WTF??? Did I apologize?

OK, maybe I did. BTW, look at Prosecutor's spend ratios. His most expensive item is the bag. Some things get cheaper as you go lighter; the bag isn't one of them. If you are in the market to lighten your load, I recommend doing plenty of research before purchasing the bag.”

“LOL!!! I kept thinking that when GrizBait said "hubby," it was your wife, hubcap. Now I finally got it!

LMAO!! doh!”

“Good thing I'm thick skinned, cuz y'all ganging up on me now. Geez, where to start?

I did buy a lighter stove and a water filter. The other stuff, I got what I got. Sleeping bag - polargaurd fill, probably 3-5 pounds. Pack - Kelty frame, about 6 pounds. There's better stuff out there, sure, but (1) baby steps seem better here, (2) I need to learn "regular" before "ultralight" or "light", and (3) most important, Mrs. Griz wouldn't wait for a bear to feed on me, if I spent $321 on gear right now I'd be dogmeat. "The baby needs new shoes," that sort of thing.

And oh yeah, where do I get free tents and free titantium (else the price quoted almost doubles?). Oh yes, my new buds on the internet are going to shower the Griz with REI dividends and gifts! Thank you, thank you!”

“Griz, don't spend a lot.

Spend smart.

Campfire Free. Superfly canister stove $35.

I waited nine months to get my once a year 25% off coupon before I bought the sleeping bag.

Aqua Mira water treatment $11.00 and weighs 2 ounces. Water filters cost loads more and weigh .82 pounds. That's why I put in my trip reports if the streams run clear, then you can use the Aqua Mira. If the water is murky, your stuck bringing a filter.

When they ask, what do you want for your birthday, do you say, "another tie"? Give your relatives a internet print of that titanium pot you have been looking for. Better yet, instead of spending money on "pot", save it up to buy titanium "pot". LOL”

“You are committed! Let's see, what happened to "sex, drugs, and rock and roll?" Sex is replaced by walking. Oh boy! Count my blessings, eh? I might be in a wheelchair next year. Drugs is replaced by gear. Like, this titanium pot, what a buzz I'm getting! The rock is still a rock, only a quiet one, joined by other like-minded rocks in making a fire ring. And the roll is still a roll as in bed roll. Oh boy! Maybe there's sex after all!”

“And in speaking of rock & roll, anyone bringing some recreational sounds? What do you guys like, Eminem, Metallica, or Sheryl Crow?”

“GrizBait, the coyotes, owls, grouse, turkeys and other nightime creatures that inhabit the woods surrounding the Knobstone Trail provide all the music a true backpacker would want to hear.

I bring a small NOAA weather radio that also has an FM band, but never play it unless everyone wants to hear it.

What is the scale weight of your Boom Box?”

“Griz,
My favorite trail tunes are "peeps, bleats, squeaks, and tweets," but I'll put up with your choice of tunes for a little while. ;)”

“Prosecutor,
Looks like we listen to the same bands.... :)”

“The KT is a great trail I have throught hiked it many times and I have always loved it.


8)”

“The jury has voted and I've been issued another restraining order. I save about a pound in the boom box; maybe I'm down to 49 pounds now! No sing-alongs on this trip. If I really need a fix, I suppose I can go off and chirp and squeak with the coyotes.

A "true backpacker" prosc? That's profound!”

“Hey Griz,
This is going to be fun. The best things in life shake up your world completely. You know that already - I think you said you have a baby... :)”

“I put myself down as a maybe for this trip, but it's really a probable for the condensed Sat - Sun suicide version.

Griz - too bad you were not on the YRSF trip in Iowa last weekend. You would have gotten a first hand look at the wide variety of equipment people bring on these trips.

hubcap - you coming on this one???”

“Grizbait: I never hiked anywhere that I required a 50 or 60 pound pack. I can pretty much even do the extended trips on 35.”

“TownDawg, I hear ya, but may I respectfully ask how many years have you been doing this, and do you even remember how you started out? I think I'll either like this and I'll get there fairly soon, or I'll hang up my pack and pick up my golf clubs.”

“Hawkman, I agree I'm getting stoked and up for the challenge. I'll tell you a secret tho, my yin got yanged a long time ago. "Baby" was just an expression. Six-year old girl. Four year-old son. Plus the "domestic vice president." Between child care, school, soccer, piano, honey-dos, etc the time goes quick. Mrs Griz has got way more class than me,saying YES was probably the only mistake she ever made. (Prosc thought I might wear ties. Thanks Prosc!) She's the reason, besides vac time, that I got to be back Sunday. She's always on me to quit smoking this or that, and "that" doesn't happen that often anymore. Camping used to be one excuse. Oh well.

I'm discovering on this msg site that backpacking might be the answer to everything. I suppose when their old enough I'll have to break the kids into this sport (is it a sport?). After all, what kind of daddy would I be if I didn't teach them the meaning of life?!”

“Griz,
My kids are 10, 7, and 5. I'm taking all or some of them on the kids trips that are getting organized on this board. Check'm out. Maybe Mrs Griz will catch the spirit, too! (or at the very least she'll have a very therapeutic weekend alone while the rest of you are out in the woods)...”

“Gforce - Hope you do make it. Another friend of mine was asking if there was a way to do the Saturday/Sunday only and I told her what you're doing. She choked and declined. :)”

“gforce, I would like to attend this one, but alas, other things have come up. In fact, I was originally planning to do the Mammoth Cave trip that same weekend with Crazy Mike and crew, but my wife booked a short notice getaway to Jazz Festival in New Orleans for us. I'll give you guys a thought as I down oysters and cocktails while listening to excellent jazz in the Big Easy.”

“Ahhh bummer hubcap, but N'Orleans is a cool place to visit. I'm going to do the Adventure Hiking Trail again this year . . . . that would be a nice one for you to go on too.

TownDawg!! In case you don't know gforce = sb! This is your chance to finish the southern portion of this trail.

Indy Hawk - there's a trailhead at Jackson Rd which would cut off 5 mi. of the Saturday run to catch everyone . . . if that would be more doable for your friend. I'm going out for a warmup on the Techumseh the weekend before to see how my knee feels. It could turn out that is where I start depending on my knee and the weather prediction for Sat.”

“Hope y'all going to have a nice Easter. I'm going to hang out and get some practice hiking in. Maybe decide which kind of pot to buy!

I'm bummed about the latest news in Iraq. Our boys are dying, not sure why that needs to be. The UN sucks for sure, but bottom line we may be doing more harm than good in igniting hatred of Americans. Am I right in imagining all you nature-loving tree-huggers are doves? Maybe not Indy tho, he's got Hawk in his name.”

“Uh oh Griz. Indy is a she....

:)”

“My apologies Ms. Hawk. Just did another neighborhood walk. Babysit tomorrow, trail Sat. Time for a cold one!”

“Griz,
What trail will you do on Saturday? Sounds like you're doing some good warm ups! I can't get out again until the middle of next week and I'm RESTLESS! We'll have to have a trail conversation as to whether Dads "babysit." ;)”

“Hawk, just skimmed thru this thread, and I see in your second post I should have known your gender. Oh well. They say pot does that to ya!

Of course dads babysit. What are you up to?! ;-)

No comments on my Iraq comment, this is not like other msg sites. I hope y'all not so busy communing with nature to not know there is an Iraq. I know this is backpacking, but that doesn't stop some folks from bringing up anything. Actually this site has more class as there is not the endless trash talk.

I'm thinking Pokagon State Park, goal is 10 miles.”

“Griz,
Have a good hike today. The weather looks pretty dern good. Let us know how it goes.”

“We wish we could go on this trip be we are going to be backpacking in Ky.


8)”

“Catch ya on another one Crazy Mike and all! :)”

“Just did 10 miles of trail. Yeaaaah! Got Motrin in one hand, a cold Bud in the other. I feel goooood ... I think. :-)”

“Go Grizbait. Feels great, doesn't it?? (thumbs up)”

“Well, if the weather prediction holds (and it probably won't) we may have a bit of rain and otherwise pretty great weather - 60s!”

“Yesterday, the weather forecast for my hometown of Mokena Illinois changed twice in the morning, and the weather turned out different than any of the forecast. But what is rain other than a way to test how good your rain gear is.”

“Or to test whether or not you remembered to bring it....
:)”

“Do you recommend having a separate cover for your pack or just let the whole thing be covered by your pancho?”

“In my humble opinion, nothing beats a plastic garbage bag as a pack cover. I saw two women Appalachian Thru-hikers use some gabage bags outside their packs without a problem for over a month. They reinforced the area where they cut holes for the shoulder straps with duct tape.

If rain is likely in the forecast, I put a compactor garbage bag (thicker) inside my pack, then fill it up, and fold over the top. Never had a problem of a leak or a rip. If it gets a hole in it, and have a second one. The bag with a hole in it gets recycled as a garbage basket liner in my basement.

I shy away from ponchos. A good rain jacket is better.”