Mother of computer meltdowns - HELP!!

“Last night my home PC officially "bit the dust," at least for the time being. Since it's the weekend, I can't get ahold of computer places, but am trying to figure out: A) What happened, and B) How to repair and/or replace.

My Compaq PC runs Windows ME. It has a 40 G hard drive that was partitioned into about 20 G regular and 20 G to "System Restore." I was getting down to 1 G left for the regular 20 G (and had thought it should perhaps be re-partitioned since the System Restore feature didn't work. Mind you, there are two System Restore features. One is on disk and can take it either back a bit, or back to how the computer was right out of the box -- where you lose everything. The OTHER System Restore ran through Windows ME and would back up to a recent point where the whole system had in effect been "photographed" and saved.) OK, ENUF on system restore!

I have a lot of photos on it (which are almost all backed up on CDs). I was working on a photo project where I had Photoshop open, as well as Microsoft Picture Publisher, as well as probably 12 photos in the "tray" for that program. That's when it all locked up.

I could not shut down using CTRL-ALT-DLT. I had to hold the button till it shut off.

Then I waited 30 seconds and went to turn it on. It just went "click, click, click, click" etc. Finally that stopped and the monitor said, "Operating system not found." (It had made this same sound maybe a month ago, not to this extent... and was fine, however, I did start doing some back-ups then)

Could it be a virus? I've had problems with Norton Anti-Virus, which I had on there, so had not been running it. Recently, I had downloaded AVG or something and was running their one-month free trial, which did not handle E-mail. I had run a system scan recently as I tried to re-install Norton -- and that's the first thing it does. It did not reveal any viruses, nor did the AVG, or whatever it is. However, maybe there is something that it couldn't catch?

Is it just a hard drive failure? Is the hard drive toast? Will I need a new one? Can info be recovered off it?

**IF** the hard drive is not toast, would it be better to have a repair place do some work on it, or just run the system restore (back to pre-use condition) disk? Or maybe I won't have that option?

Any ideas? Looking for help here. I would surely be willing to call any of you experts here if you've got some help to offer. Write me at lisapbia@yahoo.com (which I need to clean out, since I'll be getting all messages there)

Also, the computer has like 384MB memory. I added on, it originally came with 164 or something... if that makes any difference.

A new computer is not really an option here. Hope it's an easy repair!!!

THANKS!!!”

“Well, the tech part of my name is because my other hobby (which doubles as a career) is in computers...

That click, click click sounds to me like your hard drive crashed, in a big way. OR you have a disk in your disk drive and it can't find the OS on the floppy (obviously). Check for the floppy, and any CD that may be in the CD drive. If no floppy or CD, the hard drive is probably toast.

Boot from your Windows installation CD, and when it asks, tell it to "repair" your existing setup. If that doesn't work, try installing Windows again. If the repair or reinstallation work, you'll have a chance to get your unsaved pics (and Word files, etc). A repair or reinstallation won't wipe out any of your files - unless the hard drive crash caused physical damage to the drive.

In any case, whether you are able to retrieve your files or not, since you heard the clicking once before I suggest that you do NOT use that HD once your stuff is saved. Go to pricewatch.com and look for a new one. You can mail order one dirt cheap. Don't continue to use the old hard drive.

Oh, and ditch WinME with your new installation. Go to 2000 or XP. ME is the buggiest version of Windows ever produced, and 2000 or XP is way, way, way more stable. 2000 is based on the old NT business version of Windows, and XP is based on 2000.”

“Liz, is there a disk in the floppy drive, by chance?”

“18 seconds.”

“When I first started it up, I had a CD in one of my two disc drives (the other is a DVD). Then I took it out. When restarting, it still did the "click"ing.

Question: To recover things, if possible on the disk drive, I need to move to a new disk drive, right? Not sure that I know how to do that, well and don't you need a second computer to do? I'd probably have to take it to a shop.

Question: The software I have works with Windows ME (and not all of it is software that I can update, if you know what I mean...) Which system of Windows will still work with what I have? That's my main concern there.

....as I sit on the iMac at work... *sigh*”

“If you upgrade to XP, you'll be fine with everyhint you're currently running.

Sounds like your hard drive is shot. You'll need to have someone install a new one for you if it is.”

“you got mail, girl..but, how to you pick it up with a fried computer?”

“To do your recovery, try doing the repair, etc. on your existing HD. The hope is that the clicking is just a fruitless search by the computer for the OS, and maybe by getting Windows reinstalled you can get to your files. The other possibility is the clicking is a totally damaged drive, and reinstalling won't work (and you can't get your files unless you take your drive to a really expensive data recovery company).

No matter what you'll need to replace your current drive with a new one. Believe it or not, it really isn't that hard. Literally open the case, unscrew/unplug the old drive, replug/rescrew the new drive, and close the case. It is rare nowadays that you'll need to set jumpers and stuff. Just 10 years ago I wouldn't dare tell someone to change their own hard drive, but now it is easy. Once the new drive is in place you just boot off the Windows CD and it takes care of the rest.

As for your software, 99% of software will run on 2000 or XP. I won't guarantee all will, but almost all will. They came out with a few patches that help with backwards compatibility - just make sure after installing Windows you go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com to get the patches/updates.”

“compaqs are awful”

“Scorch, the computer has worked fine for over 3 years. I don't know how long systems last, but this one was worked hard, I can tell you that. (It was not gonna get moldy from disuse.0

TechnTrek, thanks for your help. I installed the memory upgrades myself, so it sounds like a hard drive would be similarly easy (I SURELY HOPE!!) As I recall, the memory it used had to be 100 as opposed to 133 (speed??)... do I need to look out for that kinda thing with a hard drive?

I won't get a chance to look for my recovery disks till tomorrow, most likely. Then I'll try that. They're at my old place.

I'm still skittish of XP, however... I used it one place I worked and can't say I was sold on it.

matahari... oh, I can always access e-mail, just not with quite the ease of it being available all hours in my home. I can access my home account, as well as my work account on my Yahoo account. I set it up that way and would advise everyone to. Gives you two ways to get mail, and easy access to other accounts when you're not home or are on a trip.

If I can't repair, I'll consider it a good cleaning out of my files. lol! Like I said, most important stuff was backed up, but some *software* is not, most notably Windows 2000.”

“No, nothing special to worry about with HDs. You'll find some are 5400 rpm, some are 7200 rpm. That has to do with the speed the platter is spinning and has nothing to do with compatibility with the computer itself. Usually the 5400 HDs are cheaper, and should be fine for what you need. You should be able to get a new EIDE 60GB 5400 rpm drive for around $50. The only compatibility thing you need to be aware of is you want an EIDE drive - most desktop computers use that interface. The other ones you'll see have SCSI interfaces, and you don't want that.”

“i see that violin hacked you too....what a bastid...”

“If you have all your data files backed up, your best shot is probably just go get another puter, preferrably a dell or a gateway. For about $400 you can probably get something with a lot more speed and capacity then you have now.

I used to upgrade my puters every couple of years and build my own from components.

Now it's cheaper to buy new then repair in most cases.”

“Ok well first the help....

reinstalling the os may wipe out your data. Before you do, check to make sure your drive is still partioned the same way and restore the partion table first if it has changed. If you have second partion that is for restore and it is useless then dump that extra partion if you are planning to wipe everything out.

If your gonna get a new drive then try this, put your old drive as ide master 1 and then new drive as ide master 0. install fresh copy of os to new drive (c:) the old drive should show up as d: and or e: under the new os. you may be able to move your data files from d: to c: without any loss. afterwards remove the old drive and trash it.

and for the record every generation of windows has earned the nickname of most buggy ever... :P

The bill is in the e-mail”

“Installing a HD is easy. I'm on my third one on this DELL desktop in about as many years. Warrentee covered the first one, but DELL went running when they saw me heading their way!”

“Redhawk, you have a good point about just upgrading the whole darn thing. "Low-end" machines are so cheap nowadays it is usually the best way to go. And they are anything but "low-end" for what 95% of people need to do.

Lumberjack, I think you are talking way above lizs head. If she just reinstalls the OS over the existing OS none of the other files will be touched. No reason to mess with any partitions. Moving the HD to another computer (or putting a new drive in the machine that has a working OS) to try to pull the files off of it is definitely easier and safer, if you know how to do it. I don't think she does.”

“LOL, *bingo* techntrek. I can talk "partitions" and know that having 20 G set aside for a non-working Windows System Restore is not right.... but it doesn't mean I know how to do it.

As far as "low-end" computer, like I said. I have funds to repair... NOT to buy new. For example, does putting in a new hard drive affect the 384 MBs of RAM I have currently?? (is that right, or is it ROM?) I don't want to have to mess with buying a machine at that level, or upgrading it again. So buing a hard drive sounds good.

I vaguely understand what lumberjack is a saying about putting a 2nd hard drive in... wouldn't know how to do it. Or in what cases an operating system is installed either OVER another OS, or IN PLACE OF another OS.

I do know about drives. I have a multi-card reader for photo cards. It shows up as drives E, F, G and H (or something like that) when hooked up to the USB connection. And the drive I use for my Compact flash is the second one. Yet I have to shut each one down separately to detach it.

LOL! I know just enough to be dangerous, most likely. *smirk*

Today I'm off to find my installation disks.”

“the worst part of putting in a new hard drive is finding your windows CDs, and all your drivers that you put in a safe place so you have 'em when you need 'em. Yeah, that safe place that's sooo safe that you can't find it when you need it. LOL”

“I'm just posting so you know you have my sympathy. I'm so computer illiterate I didn't have a clue what you were talking about when you posted the problem. Considering my background I'd have more luck fixing your toenail problem. Good luck.”

“Don't worry lizs, we'll take it nice and easy... drop that Windows CD... OK...now take one step back from the computer...OK...

But really, if the reinstall doesn't work, at least you tried. Swapping out the HD really is easy. If you have a problem post a question here and I'll keep an eye on this thread. Or, read my bio and you'll get a hint where to find an email address that will reach me.”

“Hmmmmm... that reminds me.... I haven't created an emergency repair disk in a while...


Thanks for the reminder.”

“Un peu de connaissance est chose dangereuse.

*GRIN*”

“What are you saying there, Tilt?? HMMMM???!?




lol

Well, I did NOT find the disk, although I found two other "emergency disks," as well as a Norton System Works 2000, which sounds like it *might* boot the system ***IF*** the system can be booted.

I have thought of another place the system restore disk might be.

Oh yeah, and I am ROLLING in Microsoft Office 97 disks. LOL!! At least 2 and maybe I saw 3. Where the heck did they all come from!?!?!? (and these are REAL disks, too!)

Techntrek, I bought a Seagate 40 G hard drive at wally world. (was in no mood to have to run elsewhere). So it would appear I'm ready to do "surgery" if need be. Is that an OK brand? Guess I'll go hunt for their website before I make the 5-minute trek home from here.”

“Oh, that's just another way of saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, <G>”

“Here's the link to Seagate. Does it sound OK? Maybe I should have gotten an 80 G, but geez, didn't want to spend the money? But would that be a smart move, if I work with a lot of digital photos and store them? I was at the 20 G level on the current hard drive, with 20 Gs to go.

Seagate 40 G drive”

“Seagate has been a recognizable brand of disk drive for quite a few years.... but I don't know what their reputation is like these days.

May be still be good -- may have gone downhill. (?)”

“http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=WQyJr6yWO4aJk-zIMGaDpOOYuxzVzhFrRVM=?ProductSKU=PCVRS510


sorry thats alot to cut and paste but this is my newest comp and i have had zero problems with it...still working on getting some dvd pirating going on though..”

“Seagate is among the best. You made a good choice. You should have gone with the 80 GB though with all your digital photos.

Have you opened the box. If not, why don't you return it and go to Best Buy? They have the 80 GB Seagate for $60 after a $40 rebate.

Good luck!”

“I second that Seagate is a top choice. Can't go wrong with it. If you had your old 40 GB drive for a few years and still only used 20 GB of it, you'll be fine for a few more years. Even if you do run out of room, it is just as easy 2 years down the road to add a 2nd hard drive. Even easier than adding a new primary hard drive (since you don't need to install any OS or software on it).”

“It's IN!!! MOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

I found and tried the disk restore. No go. I took out old drive and put in new. A challenge, but I mastered it. Yee haw! Am getting DOS prompts now. Will be getting a Window '98 disk from someone to install an OS, and will buy an upgrade from there. And will take old drive to a place where a guy charges $56/hour and will look at it for half an hour, $28 and then let me know if he thinks he can recover stuff off the old drive.

I debated the "master and slave" set-up, but didn't know for sure how to set the jumpers (and didn't even know what jumpers were until reading the Seagate info. Old HD had 12 pins on the jumpers; new one has 10)

The computer guy called me this a.m. and was just amazed I'd gotten as far as I had.

Kudos to all here -- oh yeah, and ME too!! lol”

“Good for you!

When you get done, could you diagnose my car for me? When I turn on the headlights, it makes this p'ching, p'ching, tack-a-tack-a, fwoop, fwoop, whooshhh sound.

Any ideas?”

“Hey lizs, before you take it to that guy, try doing it yourself. Now that you are somewhat familiar with jumpers... once your new hard drive is up and running with Windows 98, plug in your old hard drive (at the same time). Make sure the jumper on your NEW hard drive is set to "master" and the jumper on your old hard drive is set to "slave". You don't even need to screw the old hard drive in or anything, just let it rest there. Easier than it sounds, should take you 5 minutes. When you boot up, the old hard drive should appear as a second hard drive. You then may be able to move your files over to your new hard drive. Again, post continued questions if you need help.”

“Congratulations, Lizs!

You are now officially a hardware weenie! LOL”

“She's now technlizs...

:-)”

“Doesn't the 2nd drive need to be screwed in to properly ground it?

One use for a second drive is to back-up all your files to it so if your primary drive fails, you won't lose anything important. If it was on its way out or is already fried however...”

“"Good for you!

When you get done, could you diagnose my car for me? When I turn on the headlights, it makes this p'ching, p'ching, tack-a-tack-a, fwoop, fwoop, whooshhh sound.

Any ideas?"




is this a JEEP??? you know they usually make that witht he additoin of a final whomp whomp...if its a toyota like my truck just give it a little love...you know what i mean a belly full of unleaded and some soothing Meguiars high gloss lotion....”

“I've run a secondary drive just hanging on the cables before, for short periods of time. The power cable does have a ground on it, so I don't think being attached to the metal case is really necessary. Perhaps once it was, but not anymore.”

“They make pretty good paperweights, too.”

“Well I'm not really clear on how to set a "master/slave" thing up. I just left the jumper where it was on the new hard drive. The literature said it was in "cable select" and I figured that meant it would do what it needed to.

The new drive is now at the end of the cable... I could reattach the old drive on the gray cable end (the connection in the middle), which would be correct, right?

But the new drive has 12 pins and the old has 10.

What if I leave both as they are? Also, it looked like I could easily pull the jumper off the old drive (which I may have done in fact, hmmmm... and where did I put it??!?) I did try to pull the jumper off the new drive, but it sits down lower. How to get that puppy out? IF INDEED I TRY THIS!!!

heheehee

What the heck do the jumpers do, anyhooo??”

“The jumpers tell the drive whether it's the master or the slave drive, lizs. When you have it set to cable select, something on the cable determines which one is master or slave.

Getting the jumpers off can be tedious, but usually can be accomplished using a small screwdriver, or a piece of wire with a hook in the end. Don't change them while the drive is powered up.”

“A bent paper clip works well.”

“Do you have a fire extinguisher?”

“You could try working the jumper out with your tongue...”

“Shocking!”

“Sometimes you can snag the end of the jumper with your fingernail. There is usually a little depression near the end of the jumper which gives you a little place to grab it with a nail, or paperclip.

Before you change anything around look for a sticker, or maybe something stamped right into the metal case of both hard drives which tells you what the pin settings are for those jumpers. You'll either see master/slave/cable select spelled out, or maybe you'll see some kind of abbreviations like "MS" "SL" "CS". Using those marking as guides, set your new good drive to master, and your old drive to slave. That will tell the computer to boot from the master drive. If you are missing a jumper on either drive (you'll usually need one for each drive), you might be able to take a teensy bit of aluminum foil and bend it around the jumpers you need to connect with tweezers. Wouldn't do that for your new drive, but would be Ok for a temp fix for the old drive. Here is a brief overview with a pic for you. Don't rely on the settings shown on this page, you must look for the settings on each drive you have. Every drive is different.

http://support.ap.dell.com/docs/STORAGE/0852R/jumpers.htm”