Current Republican Misleading Attack Spi n

“1. Fact Hienz Co., where Kerry's wife recieved her fortune, has a bunch of foriegn plants that employ foriegn workers.
Platform John Kerry, who is married to Hienz Hieress is campaigning against the loss of American Jobs to foriegn countries, and vows to put a stop to it.
Spin Repubs say Kerry flip-flops because his wife's fortune is a derivative of these plants, the very thing he opposes.

Fact Mrs. Kerry is not on the Board of Directors, or a part of management for Hienz co.

2. Fact John Kerry doesn't support a federal change to the constitution involving the definition of marraige as between a man and a woman. Yet he supports a similar change in the Massachusets Constitution.
Platform John Kerry wants gay couples to recieve the same governmental and legal benefits as straight couples. he understands the religious aspect of "marriage", and feels it should be seperate from "civil unions." he also believes that this is a state issue, not a federal issue.
Spin Repubs state that Kerry flip-flops because he supports the ban in his state, but not the nation.

FactThe Massachusetts legislation regarding this matter allows for civil unions that grant same sex couples with the same governmental and legal benefits that stright couples recieve, yet maintain the religiuos 'sanctity' of the doctrine of marraige. The Federal legislation, proposed by Bush does not allow for civil unions.



Please put the attacks on here, with the spin, so we can understand how to dispell the misleading statements, and get the facts out.”

“Did Ice Tea write this for you?

Just think of all the Union jobs that could be created if Heinz didn't locate plants over seas.”

“Man, talk about missing the point. Did you even read what BB wrote?”

“Uh, if it is a fact how can it be spin?

"Repubs say Kerry flip-flops because his wife's fortune is a derivative of these plants, the very thing he opposes"

His wife's fortune is a derivative of these plants, the very thing he opposes. That is a fact.

Foreign investment is not a bad thing. Kerry wants people to believe that it is. He wants people to believe that President Bush invented foreign investment and that it is bad for the country.

That is the actual spin.”

“The question is..... does or did John Kerry have a say in the fact that all those plants are overseas?

The answer is....... no.

The spin is...... tie the two togheter to discredit his legitimate issues.


OK Savage, I thought about, what next?”

“You are asking the wrong questions.

Does Kerry benefit from foreign investment? Yes.

Do you? Yes.

Demonizing foreign investment is an appeal to the masses who think buying Heinekin is treason.”

“Heinz sells overseas, idiots. Their products are available all around the world. This is why they have plants all over the world. They've been doing this for decades. They also have different product ranges for different countries. They are a truely global company.
You don't really think it's economic for them to be making tins of heinz baked beans in Arkansas or wherever and then shipping them to all the markets around the world, do you?”

“The Bush family doll: You wind it up; it serves one term and then becomes unpopular.

I have talked with so many people who voted for Bush with high expectations and now will vote for Kerry.

I never had expectations quite so high, but considered him the better choice. Clearly, his environmental record alone cries out for his defeat. But people I've talked to are disillusioned over Iraq and other issues.

And the economy, with the exception of bacpac's company (Haliburton by any chance?) continues to flounder with new layoffs announced every week.

I don't think campaign rhetoric is gonna do it for Dubya this time around. The snake oil salesman gets one pitch, and one pitch only. The second time around, folks understand the nature of snake oil.”

“I'm not asking questions, I'm interperating the spin.... the intent of the republican attack dogs.

John Kerry and stockholders do get finacial gains from overseas plants because they make money by expoiting thier workers. They take the profits, and increase thier revenues, making shareholders happy, attracting investment.....

That scenario doesn't benefit the majority.

In addition Does Kerry benefit from good paying jobs being created in the USA? yes

Do you? yes

Do the majority of Americans? YES”

“Of course I don't. I think foreign investment is vital to our economy.

John Kerry thinks it is bad, not me.”

“geoignorant.

Economoic Grown hit a twenty year high the last quarter of 2003.”

“Buddha,

Of course American jobs are good. I support that too. I am not much of a union fan. Too socialist for me.”

“"John Kerry thinks it is bad, not me."
Miss Anne Thrope
10:26:45 AM
03/22/04

The guy wouldn't have voted for NAFTA if he thought it was bad. The difference between him and Bush is that Kerry understands and endorses the concept of an environmentally and labor freindly even playing field. With Bush, there is no balance, Kerry wants balance.”

“"Too socialist for me."
Miss Anne Thrope
10:29:22 AM
03/22/04

I know republicnas don't believe in checks and balances, which is what a union ideally is. What you mean to say is that you don't agree with communal aspects of the checks and balances within the private sector, not socialism.”

“Fact remains that the Right doesn't want to admit they supprot a family that has NAZI and Al-Queda ties!

The Kuwaities LOVE the Bush family. The Saudi Family LOVES the Bush family. The NAZI LOVED the Bush family.


If the "pacpac's" want guilt by association, then let's HAVE guilt by association.


Bush = AL-QUEDA NAZI!!!

GET DOWN!!!!”

“I dunno guys. I'm getting sick of the euphemisms. What the hell is 'spin'? It's a pack of lies.

And what the hell is a 'targeted attack'? Sure looks like an assassination to me!”

“Let us never forget that the Republican party allowed Hitler to run rampant ove Europe for two years. Only after Pearl Harbor and the Germans declaring war on us the next day did these nazi-lovers consent to America entering the war. This is a record of filthy infamy that will live forever in the annals of perfidy for all the ages. Republicans are traitors to America, traitors to freedom, traitors to humanity.”

“The guy wouldn't have voted for NAFTA if he thought it was bad. The difference between him and Bush is that Kerry understands and endorses the concept of an environmentally and labor freindly even playing field. With Bush, there is no balance, Kerry wants balance."
Buddha Bear
10:30:40 AM
03/22/04

Care to check the facts? Kerry is openly against NAFTA. Yes he did vote for it, but now he opposes it.

He wants to add a sweatshop clause, but this is typical of Kerry voing one way and then doing something else. He voted for the war and immediately campaigned against it. He is a flip flopper.

President Bush on the other hand makes a decision and commits. It may not always be the 100 % best alternative, but he is not a waffler like Kerry. At least you know where you stand with President Bush.

Kerry is all over the board.”

“I live in a right to work State. I would compare my company benefit package to any union deal.

Unions had a purpose, but now their purpose is to pay fat salaries to sellouts.”

“Care to check the facts? Kerry is openly against NAFTA. Yes he did vote for it, but now he opposes it.

"He wants to add a sweatshop clause, but this is typical of Kerry voing one way and then doing something else. He voted for the war and immediately campaigned against it. He is a flip flopper."

Miss Anne Thrope
11:04:30 AM
03/22/04

He voted for it when he was under the impression that labor and environmental standards would be applied. He opposes it now because those standards aren't being apllied, and as a result, we are losing jobs.

You can call me a sellout all you want bacpac. The opinions of ignorant people don't bother me in the least. I'm only debating you here to practice for any real republican ideoligical challanges that may come my way in the next few months. And, since you haven't been able to win any of these debates, I guess I need to find more of a challenge, like a rock, or a log or something.”

“or heck, maybe even a stratdewd.”

“Hell! Back in the day, everyone was FOR NAFTA, save Perot!

Bushie poo I wanted it more than anyone else!”

“I can still hear Rossie boy talking about that NAAAAAFTA! He was right, it turns out.”

“Big ole sucking sound!



Like a Hoover...Turned on for the very first time!”

“"He voted for it when he was under the impression that labor and environmental standards would be applied. He opposes it now because those standards aren't being apllied, and as a result, we are losing jobs."

Huh???? Is that what he is saying? Get real Buddha, the man has been a Senator forever. He is not going to be duped like a school boy.

He has a well documented history of doing one thing and saying another.”

“And you have a documented history of being a liar and a coward.

If you actually examine the votes, his statements about NAFTA and his position papers on the issue, it becomes very clear that he has voted his position the entire time.”

“"Huh???? Is that what he is saying? Get real Buddha, the man has been a Senator forever. He is not going to be duped like a school boy. "

--bacpac

I rest my case.”

“You don't have any documentation that I have lied or that I am a coward.

That is your dim witted opinion.

It is clear how he voted. Why he voted that way is the question. I am sure he has an excuse.”

“I noticed a pattern here. Every time I go back and forth with opposing viewpoints here, I am constantly reminded that we are living in a different world since 9/11. Ok, I can dig that. But, why is it that when the opposing side wants to make a point, they always use something from the pre 9/11 world and apply it's relevancy to today's world...”

“Ummm, obfuscation perhaps?”

“You can say that again, Geo...”

“"You don't have any documentation that I have lied or that I am a coward........."



BAWAWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAA



You can't be serious!



FLMAO!!!!!!


AHAHAHAhahhehehhahehaehaheaehaeeeee



you crack me UP!


OMG!”

“Treebeard, I haven't noticed a pattern. What are you refering to?”

“So bacpac, how are things down at Tillie's Rose Colored Glasses Shop? Is Tillie doing a brisk business these days?”

“Just another day of...


”

“let's start with Kerry's (and others) voting records. Taking these things out of context. Taking quotes out of context. Also, using dated information from about 4 to 10 years prior to the issue at hand. Then trying to use the same things to illustrate relevancy to post 9/11 issues. You have done that on COUNTLESS occasions. Strat does it all too many times. Then, all i hear about is the differences between 'then' and 'now'. You can't use those arguments strictly at your convenience. Either apply it all the time or don't use it at all...”

“LoL always good for a laugh :)”

“They stole that idea from Itchy & Scratchy!!

”

“LMAO@chili and tilt!”

“Too much truth, guys!”

“I really don't see how 9/11 changed everything.

The world has not changed. It is just that we as a nation and as individuals can no longer be oblivious to the world beyond our borders.

I view the 9/11 tactic as nothing more than a justification tool.”

“I can't handle the truth!”

“I was giving the other viewpoint that latitude whether it was true to that extent or not, HPM. i was trying to show that even giving that, the scrutiny they are putting Kerry through, although expected, has lots of holes in the reasoning...”

“No kidding tree? Imagine that? And in an election year no less!

Could we hold an election in a drought year when there's no mud to sling?”

“I'm aware of that TB.
Every four years history repeats itself. Well, for the most part with the bashing anyway.

R is the devil!
No, he's the savior! D is the devil!
Rinse.
Repeat.”

“Am I overstating the obvious, Geo?”

“You don't have any documentation that I have lied or that I am a coward.

Miss Anne Thrope
02:15:59 PM
03/22/04

Would you really like to see said documentation? I'm pretty sure everyone here already knows, but it might be especially embarrassing all in one place.

Your choice. If you'd like to concede the point, fee free. If you'd like me to, I'll start a thread and prove you are a liar and a coward.”

“Feel free, that is.”

“So it's waffling ya want? Report to the Bush website thread if you want waffling.”

“Treebeard,

Kerry's voting record is off limits? You are joking. What have I taken out of context?”