Tilt - Where's the Outrage???

“Your personal hero and spiritual leader Yassin was executed by those evil Israelis and not even a peep from you?

I guess you must be protesting with the Palis in the streets...”

“I thought Yanni was Tilt's personal hero!”

“He's symbolically going to blow up an Israeli ant hill with firecrackers strapped to his body.

8)”

“lol@UP - good one”

“I must have missed something. I don't understand the tie-in to Tilt here...”

“Some things are better left missed.”

“I guess...”

“Treebeard, Tilt sides with the palistinian terrorists. He makes little criticism of pali terrorists killing dozens of women and children at bus stops, but if Israel accidently kills a couple civilians trying to get at a terrorist (one who has cowardly used civies to hide among) - he goes ballistic in condemning Israel.

In short, he's a seriously deranged, uncritical nitwit. Anyone who draws moral equivalence between targeting terrorist leaders and blowing up civilians in restaurants should really be locked up in a mental hospital.”

“I'd condemn Isreal on this one - you've got to see it as a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble. Bombs going off in Isreal in response takes the focus away from the building and the route of the wall.
Looks like Sharon is sacrificing the deaths of Israelis for the next few months for the long-term benefits he sees in getting the wall built where he wants - with the right amount of land enclosed.”

“Interesting premise ynamix2”

“From what I knew about this guy, his importance is more symbolic that tactical.
The act stikes me as being more designed to provoke than anything else.”

“There Freedom Fighters. If these Unites States of Amrica are ever invaded and oocuopied like the west bank and Gaza strip I hope we have some of our ouwn "terrorsits" to do somehing about it.”

“Just say no to drugs.”

“you've got to see it as a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble

LOL - no, you don't "got to". That's ridiculous. Here's a more compelling interpretation:

Because of intensive Israeli operations against Hammas et al. leadership over the past year, we've seen a period of relative calmness. However, now that bombings have increased in tempo again, Israel is beginning another phase of operations. This would make the leaks of further operations make sense. Also, Israel is demonstrating that it will take out ideological leadership as well as operational leadership.

Also, one might entertain the notion that Israel is drawing the terrorist scum out of their nests. There's no way Hammas *cannot* retaliate to its fullest extent possible. Israel may be hoping to stop/kill/arrest some of these terrorists before they strike, or at least gain knowledge of the remaining terrorist structure.

At any rate, this is just another step in the process of an imposed settlement. And good for Israel, because as we all know, the pali's were offered 95% of what they claimed they wanted, and they turned it down without honestly negotiating. The palis don't want peace, so Israel is forced to impose it.”

“Also, one might entertain the notion that Israel is drawing the terrorist scum out of their nests - ergo a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble.

So Mutt - you seem to be suggesting that Sharon has decided there will be no "peace" and that the only solution is to crush the Palistinians militarily and enforce a solution.
Therefore any words from Sharon about wanting a peaceful settlement are lies - including lies to America over the Roadmap to Peace.”

“But Bales, if there were 'freedom fighters' here you would vilify them as right wing, gun fondling, nitwits, and call for more gun control.

If there was effective gun control in Palestine, the Israelis probably would not need to take military action.”

“Just like Geobeet and lis ilk you know I'm right so instad of trying to address the points and the issue you make some snide joke (or what you think passes as humour).”

“Ynami, the the peace plan is DOA. There's little or no hope for it. Why not support it if it's politically beneficial? But anyone with half a brain knows that the Pali's don't want peace. They are the ones who continually break the peace with a terrorist bombing. And when Israel takes action to stop this, little minds think - hey it's the Israelis who don't want peace! So stupid.”

“By the way, ynami, Israel DOES want a peaceful settlement - it's just that they'll have to impose it by destroying as much of the terrorists as possible.”

“Eat S H I T and die bales.

8)”

“I don't believe that Sharon was ever interested in a peaceful settlement on anything but his own term - his words and actions in the past and present give lie to the talk of peace.”

“You're right ynami, Sharon is every bit as despicable as the pali terrorists. You and Tilt sure are well grounded. Bravo.”

“Of course Isrel wants peace-that way they can slolidify and legitimise there invasion and conquest of the West Bank and gaza Stirip.

Mfanuka, a left-leaning terroist sympathizer like Tilt might vilify frreedom fighters as guntoting nitwits but you shouldn't assume I would.”

“He is a war criminal and every bit as evil as many of the Palistinian terrorists - glad you can see that.
While I have much time for the plight of Isreal and its right to defend itself I have no time for Sharon.”

“Does anyone know what bales is babbling about?”

“While I have much time for the plight of Isreal and its right to defend itself

Unless defending itself means *gasp* killing terrorist leaders!”

“Yep - depends how you go about it - I'm sure Thatcher would have loved to have assassinated Adams and McGuiness, but she didn't do it. Various South African regimes would, I'm sure like to have taken Tutu off the map, or killed Mandella in prison, but they didn't do it.
I've no time for Arafat either, in fact I think I've said the worse thing possible is to have both him and Sharon in charge - no peace would come while they were in place, and I think that still holds true.

I guess it depends if you really want peace or you are so caught up on taking revenge and claiming some kind of victory over terrorists that you'll still be fighting the same war and people will still be dying ten and 20 years down the road.”

“Risible nonsense. You want Israel to defend itself, but when Israel defends itsef, you cry that Israel doesn't want peace and that Israel just wants revenge rather than a halt to the bombings. Brilliant. You can't have it both ways, ynami, unless you like being laughed at.”

“Ynami, the Palestinians haven't changed their behavior a bit over the years. Whether it's Sharon, Rabin, Peres, Netanyahou, Barak or Shamir, it's all been the same. They were offered the whole enchilada back when Clinton was working with them on a peace plan and turned it down. That showed the true colors right there...”

“But I'm going ot type slowly so you can understand it. Isreal invaded and ocucupied the west bank and Gaza Strip, OK, are you still with me? The local population there did not like being invaded and occupoied. Got it? Still with me? Good-because now its where it gets more ocmplicated. Some of this local population of Palistinans that didn't like getting invaded and occupied decided to do something about it(maybe you've heard of the Frednch U derground in WW2? Or seen about them on Hogans Heroes? They fought the invadidng and occupying Germans) Well this local population of Palestinans who didn't like being invaded and occuped fought the only way they could aginst the invaders and occupiers. Most of the western world calls them "terrorists'. Most of the arab woulrld calls them "Al-freedom fihgters" or however you say it in Arabic. Colnel Klink and Sargent Shultz probably called the French undergrond "terrorists" but thats not what the Fren ch and Brithis and US called them. OK, now maybe with that example you can sunderstand a little better.”

“Guess what, bales? Jordan did far worse to the Palestinians, and so did Kuwait. Jordan occupies 80% of what was originally "Palestine." Why no PLO atrocities perpetrated against those countries?”

“WTF happened to "the Road Map for Peace"? LOL!!!


another failed Bush thang!!!”

“I disagree about Arafat being offered such a great deal. What kind of state has no rights to its own water or borders? The toughest questions – refugees and Jerusalem – were left till some future date.

I think killing this guy is completely justified in the context of what is now a hot war. Generals are fair targets. If he could have been captured and tried, the violent repercussions would have been just as bad if not worse. There could have been high level kidnappings to force an exchange.

However, I doubt this will do any good in the near term and its just impossible to say what the long term consequences will be.”

“What's the pali's excuse for using their own civilians as shields, and conducting a terrorist war in such a way as to make civilian casualties -- their own as well as Israel's -- inevitable? When the pali's shoot from within their own crowds, when they hide among their own civilians, when they don't wear uniforms (these, of course, are in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, btw), when they target civilians, how is it *Israel* that is framing the war?”

“Whdn did Kumwait invade or occupy Palistine, ghthe West Bank or the Gazastrip?”

“violin, you call most of what the pali's claimed they wanted to *not* be a good deal? Oh, and you conveniently leave out the FACT that the palis refused without even bargaining in good faith. Why did you leave that out, I wonder?”

“Well I'm not sure - there was a time when things came close to a settlement - I think with the Clinton negotiations at Camp David things were not quite a clear cut as the Plaistinians having this wonderful settlement and rejecting it.
How did the latest intifada start - by Sharon going to the Temple Mount and provoking a reaction by stone throwers. Things played right into his hands.

And Mutt, a country defending itself doesn't have to involve shooting missiles from choppers into crowds to assassinate people. These people need to be arrested and put before a court. The rule of law is important. Isreal has proved it can do this when necessary.
I think it's important for any democratically elected state to try and stick to the rule of law - not to suddenly make assasinations acceptable. You should not use the tactics of terror to try to defeat terror. Does that make you any better than the terrorist if and wehen you eventually win.”

“And Mutt, a country defending itself doesn't have to involve shooting missiles from choppers into crowds to assassinate people.

Did you read this: What's the pali's excuse for using their own civilians as shields, and conducting a terrorist war in such a way as to make civilian casualties -- their own as well as Israel's -- inevitable? When the pali's shoot from within their own crowds, when they hide among their own civilians, when they don't wear uniforms (these, of course, are in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, btw), when they target civilians, how is it that *Israel* is the one committing atrocities?

Of course, you're borrowing a strategy from Violin and conveniently leaving out all those times Israel did send in their troops - risking unecessary casualties - just to minimize collateral damage.

Your moral equation still does not add up, ynami.”

“I'm not saying there's a moral equation Mutt. You don't seem to be listening. Palestinian terrorists are evil. I have no defense for them. They deserve to get their wish and die for their cause without taking anyone else with them.
This does not, however, make everything Isreal does justifiable. It's more complicated than one side being right and the other being wrong.”

“Oh, I see! Israel never demands investigations of alleged abuse by the IDF. Israel never puts commanders on trial for abuses. Israel never admits it's wrong. Just like the palis! It's so clear now.

I guess I'll have to email every major news organization and tell them they were wrong to report these false stories.”

“But we're talking about officially sanctioned assassinations carried out by helicopters and missiles Mutt - not about say, the shooting of journalists and the like.”

“(Nairobi, March 12, 2004) One million people are "at imminent risk of life and livelihood" in Sudan's western region of Darfur, due a lack of civil order and the "refusal of local and national authorities to permit unrestricted access for humanitarian workers", according to the US government.


At some point, we need to worry about the big picture and let everyone else settle their own problems. We have the means and the ability to ease a lot of problems on this planet, however, it seems we continue to become engaged in the role of "world cop".

I for one would prefer we took the position of "world humatarian".”

“Screw the palistinians. If they want peace, they can create that peace with Israel, and it starts by ending suicide attacks on civilians.

Israel has not been guiltless in this conflict, but the palis have been downright contemtuous of anything resembling peace.

Targeting children and civilians is an act of utter cowardice.”

“Gosh, I wonder why Tilt hasn't responded. ;-)”

“If someone came right out of the chute and approached you with the proverbial knife in his teeth, ready to cut your jugular open, you might react with indifference too...”

“Not me. I would take the knife away, cut him a new #&%!$ then piss on his steaming carcass.”

“Treebeard, I guess some people can't take a little ribbing. Too insecure - poor tilt.

Chili, what happened to becoming Mr. Nice Guy?”

“Whys should Tilt lower himslef to respond to your tripe Mutt? I alrady refuted any issue you raised and showed the entire premmise of your attack on him to be false and frankly a gallimaufry of haf-truths and misused factoids.”

“LOL @ bales”

“I'd like to see Netanyahou take over the reigns.”