To Kill Snake or not kill Snake

“I think it varies with time, distance & terrain. I've spent 40 years in the woods for long periods of time, distance & rugged terrain. I rarely see snakes on marked trails. I do see them when I bushwhack, climb or take a tumble. Sorry, but I get scared when one is rattling a foot away from my face. I'm mostly alone (my preferred way) and a day's hike out. Your perceptions might change with the first bite. You would have a miserable time of it, but it would be lethal for an older person (I'm getting there) or child. I try to stay out of known snake dens in warm weather. I wear snake chaps. I have hunted in the past for food, but not in the last 15 years. I'll back away from anybody or anything since I haven't any macho attitudes. However, everybody has their limits & mine is much shorter with snakes.”

“You should have gone around it.”

“I really meant well when I killed the snake. I know that several young scout troops hike this trail and I would feel bad if one got snake bit because of a snake that I could have killed. I see some of the points to people who say let the snake live, and most of the time I would have, but I did not fell right just walking around this snake and hoping that the next person to come down the trail would see him before they got bit. The point where I killed the snake is over 4 miles to the closest road.




I'll bet you're just one of those sissies who wets himself at the sight of any snake..."
Father Goose
04:08:04 PM
03/28/04

Man Father Goose that hurts coming from you but the truth is, it did get my adrenalin pumping. I have copperheads on my land and have never seen one to be aggressive like this one was. I even picked one up by accident while picking up leaves in my yard and it did not strike at me. O well I still love you all, and even if you don’t appreciate what I did for the world, can we still be friends? For those of you that said kill the snack ROCK ON!!”

“I was brought up on the rule, if you kill it you have to eat it.”

“Not wanting to sound macho, but you should have let it go. Snakes are one of the most beneficial creatures to mankind. If it isn't attacking you, let it be.”

“the risk of being snakebit is just one of the many risks that we all assume when we go out there. So do the young scouts - and they are always in a group and usually very well prepared to deal with those situations. Chances are the snake would have moved on and minded its own business if you'd moved it off the trail.

I see why you did it and don't entirely know if I'd done any different, so I don't condemn you, but maybe next time think about just moving the critter outta the way.

Hike on BigRob!”

“I was brought up on the rule, if you kill it you have to eat it."

lumberzac
07:56:53 AM
03/29/04


I did think about putting this snake in my pack and eating it for supper, but I do not know how to prepare snake for eating. If you know how please tell me and I will make sure I eat the next snake I kill. I also am against people who hunt just to be hunting. I think that if you are going to kill an animal such as dear, bird, fish, ect... then you should eat it. I will try to do better next time.”

“I heard it tastes like chicken

but that was for rattlesnake, not sure about copperhead.”

“Another do not kill it, vote here.

Very little risk of a scout being bit as snakes feel ground vibrations from people walking and normally get out of the way. A cluster of feet would certainly get it moving.

Vibration also means no need to pick a snake up, use a stick to bang the ground 6-8 feet away from them and they will move away themselves.

The snake you came across, not moving, showing aggression was possibly starting to shed its skin, they do not move too good while doing that. I would go around.”

“Kill it and grill it :)”

“There are good snakes and bad snakes.

I find it quite interesting that all good snakes are dead snakes. I see a direct correlation in this.”

“Chili, I'll remember that quote when the world is over run my rodents.”

“nice snakes finish last....”

“"Chili, I'll remember that quote when the world is over run my rodents."
lumberzac
09:45:14 AM
03/29/04

"Your rodents"? WTF?”

“lumberzac's real first name is Willard...”

“Another vote against killing the snake here. There were other good choices you had. The notion that there was a perceived danger to others is true, but so what. What about that cliff around the next bend that some kid could fall from? What about that stone in the trail - someone could trip over it and land on their head. What about that thunderstorm moving in? Lots of stuff can hurt people in the wilderness - part of the game is to be prepared to deal with them so you don't get hurt.

I was out running with a friend one day and we saw these two rattlers on the trail ahead of us doing this big 'ol dance. It was really cool to watch. We just waited a few minutes until they moved off the trail - no biggee. I'd hate to have missed seeing that because somebody bludgeoned the snakes to death just for being snakes. But then again, some people just feel the need to master the world by killing what they don't like....”

“Lots of stuff can hurt people in the wilderness - part of the game is to be prepared to deal with them so you don't get hurt.

BowlderMan
11:48:21 AM
03/29/04

I did deal with it.”

“Is that a snake in your pocket or...


KILL IT!!!”

“TownDawg came across a rattler on the trail that led to camp for TC3. And did he kill it or disturb it? No. He put a note on the ground several yards down the trail with a rock on top so it wouldn't blow away. By the time most of us got there the snake had moved off the trail. He did the right thing, you did not.”

“So that this snake did not die in vane I will use this opportunity to try and educate the TTrs about the Copperhead. I myself have looked up a lot of info about the copperhead today and will try to be less ready to kill, unless I find out a good way to cook that baby at camp. I’m still searching for that info.

This is what I found out.

However, even though the copperhead does have the potential to inflict harm, it is like most other snakes--nonagressive. The copperhead will take a defensive posture only when directly threatened. Interestingly, when it is aroused, it may vibrate its tail like a rattlesnake, although it has no rattles. The bite of a copperhead, while painful and capable of producing severe illness, rarely results in death.

The poison that generates such fear in people is an adaptation that helps the snake survive and serve as a valuable part of the environment. Snakes like the copperhead often prey on animals larger than themselves and so there is a distinct advantage in having that animal quiet or immobile, particularly if the animal could hurt the snake. Copperheads are pit vipers, and have large, hollow fangs at the front of their mouth that are connected to the bones of the upper jaw and palate so that they are folded against the roof of the mouth when the mouth is closed and are automatically brought forward when the mouth is opened. These fangs are used to inject venom into the prey. The poison of the copperhead is hemolytic, meaning it causes the breakdown of red blood cells in the bitten animal and this eventually subdues the animal, allowing the snake to easily swallow it.”

“Try to safely and quickly identify the species of snake if practical. Move victim to safety. Have one person take firm command of the situation very early to improve the coordination and decision making processes. The victim's condition is assisted with an observation that calm and competent assistance is being firmly applied. There will be no time for shy or timid behavior! Action will be crucial! Proceed with no delay to use judgment calls on all of the below suggested techniques.
Remove any jewelry or tight fitting clothing. Quickly tie a light restricting band both above and below the bite area a few inches away from the puncture/bite marks.
Without cutting, apply strong suction, preferably within seconds of the bite directly on the main or deepest puncture/bite marks. This can be accomplished with the mouth or a commercial bite kit suction device. Time is critical here as any venom present will become destructive very quickly!
Rapidly apply antiseptic cleanser to the entire area and place cold compress as closely as possible without interfering with suction process.
Continue strong suction and alternate the location of compress to avoid injury from severe cold.
Check constriction bands periodically as swelling may occur and loosen as appropriate.
Monitor for symptoms of shock and be prepared to administer appropriate treatment. At any signs of major stress or unusual/unexplained discomfort, check for need to apply other first aid techniques - elevate bitten extremity, elevate legs from lying down position, keep warm, immobilize, etc. Do not administer alcohol or cause additional stress to victim. Avoid food or liquid intake.
Keep victim warm and immobilize as practical. Movement to proper treatment facility is more crucial than maintaining immobile status. Maintain above treatment functions throughout.
Transport safely at the earliest possible time to competent medical service. Ideally, all of the above steps can be administered concurrently with transport phase. Keep victim as comfortable as possible and reassure that survival is not in question. Rapid response reduces damage levels.
If possible and voluntarily chosen, administer electroshock to bite area in several one second bursts in a small circle around bite. Repeat this at 10-15 minute intervals getting slightly farther from bite area seeking to follow course of venom flow. Take care to utilize DC current at proper levels and prepare in advance to administer this technique.
If practical, dispatch snake and take along for any identification or testing needs. The primary purpose of this first aid is to slow down or reduce the invasion of the venom, to protect the victim from further side effect trauma, to prepare the victim for later medical procedures such that complications may be minimized, and generally to get the victim to such treatment as quickly and safely as practical.
Stand by for back up assistance or side task assignments like contacting relatives, protecting scene materials, providing useful information of incident facts, describe first aid administered, etc.
Be confident that all which could have been done was applied to assure as successful an outcome as possible given that a venomous bite is difficult to control or establish a completely accurate prognosis. Remember, early treatment is better treatment when such a bite occurs!”

“Remove tight fitting clothing? So if a women gets bit all undergarments should be removed? I think I need to purchase some snakes...

Anyone want to hike this weekend?”

“Every state but Maine, Alaska and Hawaii is home to at least one of 20 domestic poisonous snake species, according to a study in the August 1, 2002, issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The article's authors estimate that between 7,000 and 8,000 people a year receive venomous bites in the United States, and about five of those people die.”

“Types of Poisonous Snakes
Two families of venomous snakes are native to the United States. The vast majority are pit vipers, of the family Crotalidae, which include rattlesnakes, copperheads and cottonmouths (water moccasins). Pit vipers get their common name from a small "pit" between the eye and nostril that detects heat and allows the snake to sense prey at night. These snakes deliver venom through two fangs that the snake can retract at rest, but which spring into biting position rapidly. Virtually all of the venomous bites in this country are from pit vipers. Some--Mojave rattlesnakes or canebrake rattlesnakes, for example--carry a neurotoxic venom that can affect the brain or spinal cord. Copperheads, on the other hand, have a milder and less dangerous venom that sometimes may not require antivenin treatment”

“Avoiding Snakebites
Some bites, such as those inflicted when snakes are accidentally stepped on or encountered in wilderness settings, are nearly impossible to prevent. But experts say a few precautions can lower the risk of being bitten:

Leave snakes alone. Many people are bitten because they try to kill a snake or get a closer look at it.
Stay out of tall grass unless you wear thick leather boots, and remain on hiking paths as much as possible.
Keep hands and feet out of areas you can't see. Don't pick up rocks or firewood unless you are out of a snake's striking distance. (A snake can strike half its length, Hardy says.)
Be cautious and alert when climbing rocks.
What do you do if you encounter a snake when hiking or picnicking? Says Hardy: "Just walk around the snake, giving it a little berth--six feet is plenty. But leave it alone and don't try to catch it."”

“Should you always keep the grass trim so you can see the snakes?”

“I don't know, but I've met some snakes in the grass.”

“I have to agree with most I would not have killed the snake. If it was threatening a child or had bitten someone, then that is another story. I also will tell you that I am not very fond of snakes, even non-posionous ones. I have killed a couple, one in my yard trying to strike at the guy mowing it for me, and another when I was a kid (and didn't know better). I have found out that according to Wildlife officers it is illegal to kill any snake it Tennessee. I think only if it bites you can you kill it for identification. Unless it has its id in its pocket!”

“I accidently hit a snake with a weed whacker once. All it did was piss it off.”

“BigRob, if you are serious about a snake recipe and how to clean a snake let me know and I'll get you the information. My dad loves rattlesnake and has a good recipe.”

“I also agree not to kill a snake on the trail. Must say though that I would be too scared to even try to kill it.

I don't know how I will react if I finally see my very first poisonious snake on the trail. If you believe it or not, I have not seen one yet. I probably passt many before, but have never seen one. Saw plenty of non-poisonious snakes though.

anyway, let it go... the guy made a mistake and had the guts to post it on TT. So he made a mistake, sht happens.

btw: how does snake on a stick sound? I bet it would taste good cooked over a campfire.”

“so we can kill this thread now?











j/k

Thats some good info a few posts up about first aid and such stuff.”

“see, i have heard you're not suppose to suck the venom out with the mouth. hmm, I really need to look into this.

also I thought (but am not sure about this) that I read not to tie anything above or below the bite. Because the leg can swell to a huge size???

they actually said the best thing you could do is lay there and wait for help. The movement will contribute to the faster movement of the poison into your bloodstream. something along those lines.

well, not moving will probalby not work if no one is around or will be around any time soon. I guess you'll have to get up and move.

Okay, I am going to read up on this now.”

“we expect a detailed report when you complete your research. Complete with footnote references and full bibliography, and please science journals only - no hokey home remedies.

An html hyperlinked version would be preferable.









(again, just kiddin)”

“"I have to agree with most I would not have killed the snake. If it was threatening a child or had bitten someone, then that is another story.

karo
02:52:25 PM
03/29/04

Why do people say you should kill the snake if it bites you? Is this just for revenge reasons?

Big Rob,
I'm glad you've done some research and have a change of heart about killing them just cause they are there.”

“I remember from my old EMT days if you had a snake to identify, they could use that to pick the right anti-venom. DK if that's the case now, I would think if you saw the snake that would be a positive ID on the type of snake. I do know that it is illegal to kill one in TN. I don't think that it is enforced that much. Years ago there would be pics in the local newspapers of people holding up dead snakes they had killed.”

“Yep that's the bastad that bit me right there!

*WACK*
*WACK*
*WACK*
*WACK*





Ooooops, that one wasn't venomous.”

“The beady-eyed one with the forked tongue!”

“

DO's

Keep victim calm.

Immediately have the victim lie flat without moving.

Immobilise the bitten limb, using a splint if possible and position it below
the level of the heart.

Get the victim to hospital urgently, lying flat.

If possible try to get the description of the snake, so the doctor will know
which anti-venom to use. Injecting the wrong anti-venom is not only useless
but also will endanger the victim.

DON'Ts

Don't incise and suck the wound.

Don't apply an arterial tourniquet.

Don't cool the area of the bite.

Don't try to catch the snake, we do not need another victim.

Don't give the victim alcoholic drink

Found it on this site.

”

“What if someone bite a snake? What's the medical procedure for that?”

“LMAO @ Tilt!!!!!!”

“snakes eat rodents, I let them live unless I am threatened.”

“It seems evident that by virtue of my trailname I am the only one qualified to speak on behalf of these poor picked on vipers. Frankly they're still pissed off about the bad rap they got in the bible...you know, that Adam and Eve thing. Because of this they much prefer biting a tasty Christian to a Jew or a Muslim. However, they seem to accept their lot of being killed on sight but offer for your consideration a proposed policy of catch and release after first pulling their fangs.”

“Can you find out if the snake I killed had friends, and if so are they mad at me for killing their crony? Tell them that I offer a peace treaty if they agree to stay out of my path. Remind them that I can kill with a single strike so therefore revenge best not be an option. Peace
O and can you tell them that I will be backpacking this weekend so stay off the trail.”

“You should be okay in the woods, but don't post. The toothless snakes will be on the trail; the snakes with fangs will be posting on TT.”