Dear Presiden Bush

“It's completely selfish. If buddhists are right I may be coming back as a lab rat/rabbit for a millenia or two and it doesn't look like I'll be enjoying myself!”

“Trial begins for mother who bashed two of her sons to death with a stone

TYLER, Texas (AP) - A mother who bashed her sons' heads with heavy rocks, killing two of the boys, was so delusional she thought the Lord told her to do it, her attorney said Monday in opening statements at her murder trial.

"Does she follow what she believes to be God's will or does she turn her back on her God?" defense attorney F.R. "Buck" Files Jr. asked the jury of eight men and four women.

Deanna Laney, a 39-year-old stay-at-home mother, has pleaded innocent by reason of insanity to charges of murdering 8-year-old Joshua and 6-year-old Luke and causing serious injury to Aaron, 14 months old at the time. Prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty.

The deeply religious East Texas woman who home-schooled her children in the tiny town of New Chapel Hill, 100 miles southeast of Dallas, wept uncontrollably and shook her head, at times burying her face in a tissue, as she listened to testimony and prosecutors showed gruesome photographs of her slain children.”

“...... one nation, under Buddha......

Boy, that would get the CC right all pissed off!”

“One Nation, rubbing the Buddha..”

“Stay-at-home-Mom, Deeply Religious...man! she's the Christian Right's Poster Child!”

“You're right, fellow buddhist, although Buddhism has had a history of conflict. But there are no Buddhist parallels to attrocities such as those you mentioned.

Bearmagnet: I think you may be a little misinformed about the religion! :) If you are curious about it, please do read about it. Buddhism has something for everyone - believer or not.”

“March 29, 2004 | ST. LOUIS (AP) -- John Kerry cited a Bible verse to criticize leaders who have "faith but has no deeds," prompting President Bush's spokesman to accuse Kerry of exploiting Scripture for a political attack.

Kerry never mentioned Bush by name during his speech Sunday at New North Side Baptist Church, but aimed his criticism at "our present national leadership." Kerry cited Scripture in his appeal for the worshippers, including James 2:14, "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?"


"The Scriptures say, what does it profit, my brother, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?" Kerry said. "When we look at what is happening in America today, where are the works of compassion?"

Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said Kerry's comment "was beyond the bounds of acceptable discourse and a sad exploitation of Scripture for a political attack."




Kerry told worshippers in the largely black congregation that the country's leadership has served the privileged while ignoring people across America who live in neighborhoods like theirs.

"Today we are told that, after 3 million lost jobs and so many lost hopes, America is now turning a corner," the pending Democratic presidential nominee said. "But those who say that, they're not standing on the corner of Highland Street, where two 15-year-old teenagers were hit in a drive-by shooting last week."

Kerry is Roman Catholic, but his support for abortion rights is at odds with Vatican teachings.

"I don't tell church officials what to do, and church officials shouldn't tell American politicians what to do in the context of our public life," Kerry said in an interview with Time posted on the magazine's Web site Sunday.

Kerry spent the weekend campaigning in Missouri, a state he hopes to take from Bush's win column in the November election. Bush defeated Gore 50 percent to 47 percent in the state in 2000.

Before church, Kerry stopped at Chris' Pancakes & Dining, where his physical appearance seemed to be the top concern among diners who agreed that he looked better in person than on television.

"That's the third time this morning I've heard that!" Kerry said after being complimented by diner Eda Grassi. He replied that he'd have to start working on his camera angles.

"You look like a good Italian in this neighborhood," said Caesar Valli. Then, taking a glance over Kerry's thin 6-foot-4 physique he said, "You need a little flesh on."

Kerry agreed. "I know. I'm working on it," he said”

“Here's a problem that we all too often confront and that I don't know can be resolved.

I often find that people who are more liberal are more than happy to blame an institution based on the actions of it's members.

I wouldn't blame the Islamic religion for terrorism or the Christian religion for the crusades. There are people, individuals, who are responsible.

Of course we do have some nuts like Pat Robertson on the conservative side out there blaming Islam without regard to the idea of personal responsibility.”

“Btw - stop slacking and sign up for the Old Rag trip.”

“Simi - I might have to do that!

Bison - serious Q: If leviticus has nothing to do with Christianity than neither does the 10 Commandments, no?

And my schedule for weekends is still up in the air regarding playtime and work!”

“*Apu voice*

Please do not offer my god a peanut.”

“Instant Karma's gonna get you ---”

“So what was the point of posting all the scripture? President Bush and John Kerry are both Christians.”

“Bearmagnet - I never said Leviticus had nothing to do with Christianity, I said there's no reason to beleive that b/c Bush is a Christian it would shape his beliefs on gay marriage.

Weekends are for play, not work.”

“Point #1! Christians point to the Old Testament to justify their stance against homosexuality.
Point #2! There is no quote from Jesus in the New Testament regarding homosexuality.
OK, GW lovers, these two points make redhawk's post valid. Any argument?”

“sooooooooooo I can eat Mackeral on a Friday while watching "Where the Boys Aren't"! Yes!”

“"Point #2! There is no quote from Jesus in the New Testament regarding homosexuality."

This is true, but the New Testament covers more than words actually spoken by Jesus. And yes, covers homosexuality. I'll not quote the verse. Let's see if Dunadan can find it himself.”

“""Point #1! Christians point to the Old Testament to justify their stance against homosexuality."

Some do, Why I don't know when you can also use the New Testament, I've never seen W use the Old Testament to justify his stance though. If he has please produce a quote.”

“"Bison - serious Q:....."

You Rang!?!”

“this thread is bizzare....hate is hate and it's bad, n omatter what you do or don't believe in.

it is clear who the haters are.

m epersonally, i don't hate you if you wanna worship ...whatever you want, i don't care. it's just not my problem. the basis of this thread, the whole point is, bush is bad cuz he's a Christian.

niiiiice....

jihad Jesus, jihad bush”

“Where did you get that? I would hate Bush no matter what his religion.”

“i rest my case



jihad bush”

“What is GW's reasoning as to why the United States has to have a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage?”

“screw the book,BIBLE, KORAN, TORAH, just look at what is right or wrong about love. or having heterosexuality on all media fronts being shoved down your deep throat okay for everyone here. while watching lesbian porn and loving it. yeah, what goes on in the bedroom, really should be behind closed doors. and gay marriage is about equal rights.”

“Dear Dubya,

Please go back to Texas and take the other crooks like Tom Delay with you.

Thanks!”

“personally, i couldn't care less who marries whom. doesn't affect me one iota. iota?

there is an argument that says what slope will we be slipping down if it's allowed...where will it end. i can see both sides of it. sdome say leave it to the states....others say some things are non-negotiable...


"When the core norm of marriage is under sustained legal attack,
the proper response is not to 'leave it to the states.' As
Edwin Meese pointed out in The Wall Street Journal, if marriage
really matters, it matters in all 50 states. Some things really
are fundamentals of our civilization. We don't permit states to 'experiment' with communist forms of government. We don't allow judges to redefine what a corporation is. If marriage really matters, the right response to a sustained legal attack on our
marriage norms is to use the constitutional process our forefathers gave to us to reaffirm our social ideal. In the United Sates of America, marriage means something: the union of husband and wife who can give to their children a mother and a father." --Maggie Gallagher”

“I remember when Meese came on CNN to "blow the whistle" on Iran-Contra, but what he actually did was give Ollie and Fawn the entire weekend to shred eveything, LMAO!

Just another crook.”

“And exactly what is that fear, Strat? You raised a point that I would legitimately like to hear answer for. What could same sex couples getting married do to an institution that has a 50% success rate and an inordinate amount of single parent children? To what levels will this take us to, to the point where the lives of those not involved in these relationships will be affected? I would love to hear these predictions...”

“wekk treedude, i'm not really sure what you mean buy what fear...i don't think i mentioned a fear....like i said, i personnally don't give a rats patootie either way. in fact, i'd lean towards giving them the "right" or whatever you want to call it, to get married. my uncle, whom i love very much and am veryu close to, is non-hetrosexual and he's actually conservative but i am very understanding to their situation. i do have a problem with militant, in your face, gays...and i don't agree with teaching kids in school that it's a normal behavior..but i don't fear them one bit.

did i answer your ??”

“Partially, Strat. This is where I used the term fear:

there is an argument that says what slope will we be slipping down if it's allowed...where will it end.

This implied a "fear" to me that we would end up worse than if we didn't allow it. That was the reason I chose that word. But, aside from that, I understand you answer. The only thing I don't really see is that I don't see where teaching homosexuality in schools as "normal" behavior was ever part of any curriculum. If they want to teach "tolerance" of other people, then I say, 'Great. It's about time.' But, that encompasses more than sexual orientaion issues...”

“Treebeard, the dewd lives in Arkansas.

He's afraid that if gay marriage is OK then farmers there will feel free to shag their livestock.

Oh wait...........”

“WTF is a "nonheterosexual"? Does that include gay bestiality?”

“Tooooooooooooooooooooo late!”

“Title 42 - The Public Health and Welfare
Chapter 21 - Civil Rights
SubChapter I - Generally


American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978



§ 1996. Protection and preservation of traditional religions of Native Americans

On and after August 11, 1978, it shall be the policy of the United States to protect and preserve for American Indians their inherent right of freedom to believe, express, and exercise the traditional religions of the American Indian, Eskimo, Aleut, and Native Hawaiians, including but not limited to access to sites, use and possession of sacred objects, and the freedom to worship through ceremonials and traditional rites.”

“"would you attack the religious beliefs of native americans?

Answer above. Until 1978 It was illegal for us to practice our religion in this country”

“For those who argue that Levictus doesn't apply any more because it's Old Testament"

I seem to remeber reading somewhere in the Old Testament (Exodus?) about 10 something, uh, hmm, Oh Yeh COMMANDMENTS!!

So do they no longer apply either?

Its All or None, or else it's "selective choosing" which indicates bias.

"Take what suits us and screw the rest"

Thats not Christian, Thats hypocritical!”

“Hmm Bush "forgot" that one!”

“......you suck eggs!!!”

“Just to set the record straight.

I have nothing personally against other religions, as long as they don't try to force themselves on me.

I have always reespected people with religions (or views for that matter) that differed from mine, as long as they were sincere and practiced them as a matter of faith, not convenience.

On the other hand, I have nothing for contempt for those who preach but fail to practice.

I would also like people to realize that until 1974, my people were forbidden to practice our religion or perform ceremony.

Inipi, (Sweat Lodge), Chanupa (sacred Pipe), Hambleecha (Vision Quest) and other ceremonies were against Federal law in this country that was founded on the concept of freedom of religion.

Food for thought.

The murder of Sitting Bull, the Massacre at Wounded Knee Creek were committed because of the practice of the Ghost Dance, which was a spiritual ceremony being performed by many of the Plains Nations (Lakota, Paiute, Cheyenne, Crow, Arapaho).

Those who danced (including my grandfather) were considered Terrorists by the United States Government.

History has proven different.

I see today, too much of the same things, same attitudes, same ignorances that were practiced then, and for the same reasons.”

“""For those who argue that Levictus doesn't apply any more because it's Old Testament"

I seem to remeber reading somewhere in the Old Testament (Exodus?) about 10 something, uh, hmm, Oh Yeh COMMANDMENTS!!

So do they no longer apply either?

Its All or None, or else it's "selective choosing" which indicates bias.

"Take what suits us and screw the rest"

Thats not Christian, Thats hypocritical!""

I'm not here to teach you about Christianity, and many of these issues were gone over on "The Passion" thread. If you feel that my religion is hypocritical, because of your lack of understanding of the nature in which the Old Testament relates to the New Testament, so be it. I'll take that as reason enough to criticize your religion, if I ever feel a need too, without attempting to educate myself about it first.”

“Bison, one of these days you might be able to read something and understand it.

I did not say Christianity was hypocritical.

I said that I detest people who preach but do not practice...Thats hypocritical.

So use your eyes, and then your brain before putting your typing finger in gear.”

“Redhawk perhaps you need to take some lessons in reading comprehension - here is what you wrote.

"seem to remeber reading somewhere in the Old Testament (Exodus?) about 10 something, uh, hmm, Oh Yeh COMMANDMENTS!!

So do they no longer apply either?

Its All or None, or else it's "selective choosing" which indicates bias."

You then went on to indicate that this idea of "selective choosing" was hypocritical.

I then indicated that you might understand the reasons for what you call this "selective choosing" if you bothered to educate yourself about about the relationship bt the OT and the NT.

Do you get it now?”

“I got it a long time ago Bison...

Like I said, read everything again and then try to get it straight.

You said.
"If you feel that my religion is hypocritical, because of your lack of understanding of the nature in which the Old Testament relates to the New Testament, so be it. I'll take that as reason enough to criticize your religion, if I ever feel a need too, without attempting to educate myself about it first."

Note the first line, "If you feel my religion is hypocritical"

I did not say that your (or any) religion was hypocritical. What I said was to pick and choose to suit your whims is.

Now, what part of that do you not understand?

You want to debate? Great! I love a good debate, especially with people who are passionate about their beliefs, respectful of the other person, and able to base their counterpoints accurately wirthout having to distort the words or views of their opponent.

You are basing an argument on something that I did not say, that is either a lack of comprehension or an inability to present a valid argument.”

“Redhawk; out of curiosity, do you currently support what's going on in the Badlands NP right now?”

“Redhawk, you implied that the difference between the applicablitity of Leviticus and the Ten Commandments to a Christian represented a "selective choosing" which was hypocritical.”

“Ergo, because there is a difference in applicability, I took the following statement,

"Its All or None, or else it's "selective choosing" which indicates bias.

"Take what suits us and screw the rest"

Thats not Christian, Thats hypocritical!,""

as representing an opinion that Christianity is hypocritical.”

“Then we would omit the statement "Thats not Christian"

"Thats not Christian, Thats hypocritical" kind of says that if you pick and choose you are not practicing Christiananity you are being hypocritical.

Like anything else, actually more then anything else, people twist christianity (and other religions) to suit their own purposes.

I here a lot of people talk about the commandments and the shalt nots, but on the other hand they never quote or practice the beatitudes or the Golden Rule.

Christianity is a wonderful religion, as long as its followers follow ALL of it's tenants and do not try to force it on those who do not want it.

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the Sons of God"

"Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain Mercy"

My point is that if Bush wants to quote the bible to make a point, then he should apply the same bible to all his actions. As should everyone

They don't, they're hypocrites!

Does that clarify my point in a way you can understand?”

“redhawk

As I read it your specific point was that it was hypocrisy to apply the Ten Commandments, and not to apply the rules of worship set out in Leviticus.

As there is solid foundation for the distinction in the New Testament, I don't feel that it was a stretch to say that you were essentially calling Christianity hypocritical.”

“Ahhhhh, the indian kills the buffalo again. How retro!”

““As there is solid foundation for the distinction in the New Testament, I don't feel that it was a stretch to say that you were essentially calling Christianity hypocritical."

Bison, I normally find that when the hypocrisy card is played it is out of sheer ignorance. I have met very few who employ this tactic that even had a working knowledge of the religion’s rights and tenants. They know a few of the key teachings such as loving your neighbor and then try to use this at every step without even fully understanding the teaching. This is further exacerbated by how Christians define their relationship to it’s root religion of Judaism and attempt to apply things from Judaism to Christianity (like the 10 Commandments) that are not applicable to anyone but the Jews. It causes them to try to submit to the Law and to the tenant of Christianity that the Law is dead.

The simple fact of the matter is this, everyone is hypocritical weather or not they are striving to adhere to teachings that better themselves and the world, or they don’t believe in religion or even G-d. It’s all a matter of what your personal absolutes are.”