Economic Politics

“Thanks. Much better.

I'll keep an eye out for him.
last edited: 4/27/05 12:08:03 PM”

“Stephen Roach is Marvin Gardens”

“The world price of oil has not risen. The dollar cost of oil has gone up 20%, from approx. $40. per barrel to $50. At the same time, the Euro has gone up vs. the dollar by approx. 40%.
The markets have made a judgement about the US and it is not good.
The Bush tax cuts and unjustified war, have increased America's debt and not improved the US economy.
America has used up its' WWII victory advantages, and except for having the ability to destroy the world, is falling back to where it was in the thirties.

America No. 1?

America by the numbers

by Michael Ventura

02/03/05 - - No concept lies more firmly embedded in our national character than the notion that the USA is "No. 1," "the greatest." Our broadcast media are, in essence, continuous advertisements for the brand name "America Is No. 1." Any office seeker saying otherwise would be committing political suicide. In fact, anyone saying otherwise will be labeled "un-American." We're an "empire," ain't we? Sure we are. An empire without a manufacturing base. An empire that must borrow $2 billion a day from its competitors in order to function. Yet the delusion is ineradicable. We're No. 1. Well...this is the country you really live in:

• The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).
• The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).
• Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).
• "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).
• Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!
• "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).
• "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70).
• Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).
• Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.
• The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.
• "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80).
• Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)
• "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.
• Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).
• The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).
• Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).
• The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).
• "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.
• "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).
• "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, NestlÈ and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).
• The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005).
• U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).
• Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).
• Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.
• Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).
• As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).
• Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.
• One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).
• "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).
• "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).
• Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).
• "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).
• "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore. Not even close.

The USA is "No. 1" in nothing but weaponry, consumer spending, debt, and delusion.
last edited: 4/27/05 12:24:41 PM”

“This didn't just happen yesterday. It has been building for decades. But never before have we chanted we're #1 louder than now with the house on fire. Deny the truth and the truth is gonna come back and bite you on the ass.”

“bateaux - There's the door. (points to New York)”

““bateaux - There's the door. (points to New York)”
Sarge
12:36:04 PM
4/27/05

That is the canned answer of the misguided right. I think I'll hang around to try and help fix the problems. Head in sand and a jolly chant of were #1 is all were fed.

This country was founded by dreamers putting their dreams into action. Not by bull#&%!$ters, bull#&%!$ting the masses.”

“So, your idea of "hang(ing) around to try and help fix the problems" includes complaining about it?

Yeah, that'll work.”

“Head in sand and a jolly chant of were #1 is all were fed.

Who has been "feeding" you that bateaux? Are you being brainwashed by somebody? Who exactly?”

“Presented facts are often called complaints by the right. Presenting the facts is the most important thing one can do while hanging around.”

“Ok. But you said you were going to "help fix the problem". How does that help? Is there something on that list that we haven't been trying to resolve that you have just enlightened us about? What's going to change? Which problem were we not trying to resolve before you "helped fix the problem"?

Honestly, it sounds to me like you're just complaining.

Presenting facts is useful it people aren't already trying to resolve the "fact". But if they're working on it, how is a laundry list such as the one you presented helpful?

If your wife does something to annoy you, I agree it would be useful to mention it to her before it gets out of hand. Would you find it helpful, if she were say - trying to fix several problems of hers, to come to her with the list of problems and tell her about them? Would you find that "helpful", or do you think that's actually just complaining and being a royal pain in the arse?

Be honest, what do you think?”

““Head in sand and a jolly chant of were #1 is all were fed.

Who has been "feeding" you that bateaux? Are you being brainwashed by somebody? Who exactly?”

Sarge
12:47:07 PM

Been feeding myself since I was about 18. I fed myself based on the principles that this country was founded on. Work hard and tell the truth and you will be rewarded in the end. Today we rack up huge debts and chant we're number one. Who is feeding who? The truth is coming to bite us on the ass.”

“So you're complaining that you are feeding yourself lies?

Um ... ok.”

“Be honest, what do you think?”

That is what I want is for people to be honest with themselves. We must demand accountability whenever our leadership fails us. The trojan horse is coming wrapped up in an American flag. I'm just saying it takes more than saying we're number one to be number one. We need to demand more from ourselves and more from our leaders.”

“Have a good afternoon Sarge. I'm going paint my house and some other stuff.”

“I agree with that point. But, you are not helping anything by ranting about America not being number one. I won't even go into detail about how that laundry list is flawed logically, that's another issue. The point is that complaining about America doesn't "help" anything. If you really do get out there and do your part to help, thank you. But being unpatriotic (Yes, not wrapping up in an American flag figuratively speaking is unpatriotic) is not going to "help".

Think about it - That's exactly what terrorists want. They want us to be demoralized. They want us to feel like we cannot win, that we're in a hopeless situation. They want to hear more people talking like you just did (in your quote). Is that helping?

No.”

“Paint it red, white and blue while you're at it.”

“Unpatriotic.

You're a piece of work, Sarge.”

“Phaedrus - I think if there is a definition of "unpatriotic" - Not "wrapping" yourself in the American flag is pretty much it.

The flag is a symbol of our country, and standing behind it is showing love of the country. That's the whole point of the flag.

I know ... I know ... You think patriotism is fighting "the man".”

“Can't say I agree with that, Sarge. I've met a few people that wouldn't know patriotism if it hit them in the face. These are folks that have never lifted a finger to help others, serve their country or community, and, to boot, gve no credit to those that volunteer their time to do something for kids, ommunity orgnizations or what. One, in particular, has more American flags on his vehicle than you can imagine. This guy's no patriot!”

“Our country was founded on fighting the man, as far as that goes, but equating speech critical of our government, our economic situation, or any other bit of Americana (or even a littany of such) to being unpatriotic is something a few people such as Paine, Hamilton, Jefferson, and Adams would probably severely disagree with you on.

It almost seems like you're anxious for everyone to shut up and get in line. So shut up and get in line, if that's the case. You don't need to read anything critical of America.”

“Tree - Forgive me for not re-stating the obvious. Obviously if you only "wrap" yourself in the flag, that isn't enough. Like I previously said, I agree with bateux about his hard work point.

Also, as I also previously said - (again, forgive me for not re-stating the obvious) - the "wrap in the American flag" thing is figurative. It's not about putting literal flags in your yard. It's about showing love of your country.

Is your (plural) wife #1? If you look at the numbers, it's highly unlikely. Do you stand behind her and tell her she is? Of course you do. You "wrap yourself in her flag". That's how you keep her going. That's how you keep America going. (again, as previously stated, along with hard work)”

“Phaedrus - You are totally mischaracterizing what was said.

Read bateauxdriver's post. He criticizes Americans ... not just American government.
last edited: 4/27/05 1:33:51 PM”

“Golly. You're right. He must hate his country.”

“I understand that, Sarge. But, I find that the amount of people that do nothing more than chant USA, USA and wave flags, while talking down anyone that doesn't agree with them, number more than just one person in this country. Didn't mean to necessarily lump you into that category...”

“What the heck do you think loving America means? Loving the trees and the dirt?

America is the government.
America is the American people.

If you hate both, you hate America.

It's not rocket science.

But, yeah, if you mean the mountains and the lakes, yeah ... maybe you can be as critical of "America" and still be patriotic.

Patriotism to the mountains ... from sea to shining sea ...

(rolls eyes)”

“And by criticizing American's education, there is no obvious parallel to criticizing the American educational system, right?

The same goes with all the other examples. The article itself doesn't seem defensible on a number of points, so don't try to pretend that I am defending its contents verse and measure, but I am speaking specifically against your overstatement of patriotism and its requirements.”

“Treebeard - The reverse can be said.

The number of people doing nothing more than chanting "USA Sucks" "USA Sucks" while talking down anyone that doesn't agree with them, number more than just one person in this country.”

“By pointing out the flaws in the individual result, you point out flaws in the system. It doesn't equate to hate. That's an enormous overstatement.”

“In other words, Sarge, dissent is important and productive, even if you don't like it. I know you disagree with the courts that pulled the plug on schiavo, for instance, and were vocal about that. Are you an America hater too? The judges were American. You criticized them.
last edited: 4/27/05 1:40:51 PM”

“Oooo, what a buncha savages!!!!”

“Would you talk down the list of flaws in your wife (hypothetical)? Would that be loving or hateful?

Again, pointing out something that needs pointing out is one thing. Going down a laundry list of flaws is not loving, productive, or helpful. It's hateful.

Should we stand up against our government?
Absolutely! I stood on my capital's steps in protest of high taxes just 2 weeks ago.

Is that (flawed) laundry list patriotic.
Absolutely not.”

“If my wife were a governmental structure, that might be a valid comparison. It's not, so I won't pay my wife any taxes either.

Love for one's country and love for one's wife should be very different emotions, Sarge, unless you get a hardon from watching Cspan and enjoy hugging your IRS auditor.

Citing a littany of flaws in the context of the article (the theme of the article was that we have an unrealistically biased view of American standing) is both appropriate and necessary to make the point it was making.”

“Who is we? You? Who has a biased view of America?

The laundry list itself is extremely flawed.

It comes off as a #&%!$ session.

It solves nothing.

It's unproductive.

If you want to pretend it's something it's not, so be it. But you're only kidding yourself. You and I both know that is a laundry list designed to take away from the value of the American flag.

It's time we stand up against people like you who are trying to pretend like you don't know what we're talking about with these "I'm only being patriotic because Jefferson told me to complain #&%!$ sessions". They aren't fooling anybody.

Expect to be called on it. SPADE = SPADE”

“You, sir, are a red, white and blue DINGLEBERRY.

Just calling a spade a spade.”

“There was a slogan back in the anti-war days, which I don't like, "America Fix It Or #&%!$ It".

I'm all for fixin' it.
last edited: 4/27/05 1:54:37 PM”

“You, sir, are a red, white and blue DINGLEBERRY.

And the circle is complete. The typical ending to a debate with a liberal.”

“"...stand up against people like you..."

That's close to threatening to shut somebody up.”

“It's time we stand up against people like you who are trying to pretend like you don't know what we're talking about with these "I'm only being patriotic because Jefferson told me to complain #&%!$ sessions". They aren't fooling anybody.

Expect to be called on it. SPADE = SPADE”
Sarge
11:52:10 AM
4/27/05

After this, there is no debate anymore, just you spouting: "YES IT IS" until I get tired of listening. Dingleberry.”

“That's close to threatening to shut somebody up.

"Marko" is close to "Dorko", but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the same thing, ... or does it?”

“After this, there is no debate anymore

copy cat

Dingleberry

I know you are but what am I?”

“My country right or wrong
The world can bite my dong
Let freedumb ring”

“liberal haiku

Nothing right is in
this country in which I live
I'm patriotic”

“shut up, liberal
I'm rapt, loving my country
forgetting Clinton.”

“How did we go from talking about a laundry list of complaints about America to a specific gripe?

Oh yeah ... Phaedrus entered the conversation.”

“I guess Rush Limbaugh is a bad American, too. He's a hater.

Hannity, too.

Oh yeah, and Coulter, the queen of haters.”

“You just listed 3 people which are some of the most influential people in America for getting change to happen.

Have you ever heard them make a laundry list of complaints about America? That's not how the operate. If that's what they did, you wouldn't know their names.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

There is a right way and a wrong way to make change via voicing your opinion. As I stated several times on here, voicing against the government can be a good thing. You continually mischaracterize what I've said.

Typical.”

“Coulter, for instance, has an entire book, Treason, which is a tirade about Americans and American policies she doesn't like. She even rails against American historians and Senators of the McCarthy era.

Bad, Bad, Bad American.”

“Let's put ourselves back in time for a moment. Clinton is president. The republicans do not have control of the Senate, House and White House as they do now. What sort of rhetoric do you think would be coming from Coulter's pie hole, Sarge? Do you think it would be supportive of the status quo? Or would it be even more hate-filled venom than the sh_t she spews out now?


How un-American would that be, according to your definition?
last edited: 4/27/05 2:33:55 PM”

“To be honest Treebeard, I don't read or listen to Coulter because I refuse to knowing that she is like that, and I don't know many people personally who do. I actually don't know why she is popular, and wonder if she's elevated by the left as a "right-wing spokesperson" so they can use her against them.

So, I should not have included her in that group of influential people, and I completely agree with you that she is counter-productive.

As far as that hypothetical situation, I just know of reality. Sorry. I try not to think about fantasy too much.”

“Agreed: Coulter is a bad American.

Shall we move on to Limbaugh, or are you ready to concede at this point that the harping is coming from both sides?”