lets discuss kerry's military record

“I believe that at one point he was asked if he committed any of these things he was refering to and his response was that he had. Is my memory wrong or was that something else, some other testimony or what?”

“It was popular to bash the military."

Not so, Miss Anne.

Then, as now, it was the choice of many people to bash the administration and the Pentagon.

Then, as now, it was concerned citizens and families that wanted our boys home and criticized the administration and the pentagon for involving our people in an unnecessary conflict."
MarkO
10:28:27 AM
04/01/04

Uh, I don't really need a history lesson on this. I was there.”

“baume,

Don't worry. I wasn't feeling attacked by you. LOL. Heck...I was attacking you and your weak, mealy-mouthed argument.”

“"Let's not quibble about whose medals/ribbons/whatever......."


Yeah, before you brought it on like it was a big deal, now ........



I don't really get into Kerry just yet, I'll vote for him, don't get me wrong, but that's really a vote against Bush.”

“We know it is a vote against Bush. That is what is so stupid.”

“Picking the lesser of two evils is stupid?”

“Lots of elections have come down to that. If he feels this guy is not doing his job right, why should he vote for him?”

“Because he is so much better than the alternative?”

“Hey, let's vote for the greater evil instead! That's what Satan would prefer.”

“Couldn't be much worse.”

“So who are our 3rd party candidates again?”

“I think most presidents get elected because of who they aren’t not who they are.”

“I'm voting for Nader.”

“You do that.”

“"I think most presidents get elected because of who they aren’t not who they are."
must hike
12:52:01 PM
04/01/04
ignore this user

Sad but probably true.”

“jo, i was questioning, not arguing.

i can't dispute the mealy mouth assertation.”

“"ok redhawk, there is no way in haties that iraqis want hussein over selfrule.....

no way...."

And there is no way I said that.

I never implied that they did. No where in my post does it say anything like that.

I can tell you, they do not want is there, the majpority of the Iraqis resent us because we now occupy their country.

Two years ago Osama Bin Laden predicted that the US would occupy an oil-rich muslim country. So in a way the administration has played right into their hands. The Iraqi's believe deep down that the only reason we are there is to get their oil.

Please don't contradict something that I DIDN"T say!”

“redhawk, i would be happy to discuss this with you but please, as i asked before, leave bush out of it. i am strictly speaking of kerry's service.

there is one thing that strikes me funny. my father did two tours in vietnam. i have worked with over 30 other vets from that war, and non of them, not one, will openly talk about it more than to say they was there. if you pry with questions, they may answer with a word or two. now, this leads me to think, kerry may have been there, and i certainly respect that fact, but he was there for only 4 months. how do you get so much information, and i'm speaking of what he testified that he witnessed, in 4 months?"

Many of the vets will not answer because of what happened there. My opinion of the Post War Stress Syndrome has to do not so much with combet, but what we had to do to survive and what many were ordered to do that was contrary to everything they had ever been taught and believed in.

I think many are ashamed because they think people would not understand, and they may be right.

As far as what you can see in four months: Trust me In four hours of combat you can see more then you ever want to, and unless you were there you cannot possibly understand. I say that not as an insult, it is a fact. The fact that he has three purple hearts says all that needs to be said about what he knows. nThe other thing is that about 1 day off the truck in nam you have learned everything you need to know except how to stay alive.

Like it or not, Kerry and Bush are interlocked. Its an election year. In the spirit of fair play, if you want to discuss Kerry's combat record, you also have to weigh Bush's non-combat record.

Why did you bring up Kerrys record?
To strengthen Bush's position?
If you are a Bush supporter war records are an area to avoid since Kerry has one and Bush doesn't.”

“Kerry has a fine war record. At least a far as I know. My problem is with the way he behaved when he got home. That behavior, in my mind, pretty much tears up his Hero card. However, I think a lot of people behaved in disgraceful ways about the Vietnam war, I have mixed feelings about it now, but Kerry, Fonda, etal, caused unknown damage to our troops and I don't have mixed feelings about that.

I am willing to overlook Kerry's behavior concerning Vietnam, that was a long time ago. I'm more concerned about who he is today. I sure can't figure that out by listening to him, he changes his position every day. All I can judge him on is his record in congress. Now I know I shouldn't do that because that is dirty politics and mean spirited but that's all I have to measure him by. And frankly his voting record in congress is pretty scary. More liberal that Kennedy? I didn't think that was even possible.”

“thank you for that response redhawk. the reason i brought it up is i have recently read about it, and was wondering just how much fluff there was to it. i am interested in both points of view about his war service, his behavior after he got back and the fact that he abruptly quit his protesting prior to beginning his campaign for the senate. of course, by that time he was already a well known figure. i don't know much about kerry's history. i honestly don't redcall hearing his name prior to this election. i do know much about bush. i want to know more before so i can vote with a clear conscience. i don't know how i will vote this year. i voted for bush last time but am not overly pleased with his administration. i have never been affiliated with a party. i don't strictly vote party lines. i try and see where candidates came from and form my opinion on that and the platform they present.”

“There are some questions about Kerry's military service. I would like to see a public disclosure of his medical records.

What is he trying to hide?”

“I too became a veteran opposed to the vietnam war once I finished my service.

Since it is the first war that many veterans protested should pretty much clarify things.

Kerry is pretty well known in New England. he is a liberal (which is not a bad word, FDR and JFK were liberals).
He was not the candidate I would have preferred, but after three years of Bush I would vote for anyone who opposed him.

I also maintain that if this country has to choose between war and peace, I want someone who has experienced combat to lead us.”

“I want a President to leave the war decisions to the Generals. I don't want a pacifist who spent 4 months on a river boat running a war. President Bush is a proven leader during war.”

“As a decorated veteran who served in Vietnam,I tell you that Kerry did nothing disgraceful in protesting. In fact he may be more of a hero for that then for anything he did in Nam.

As far as being a liberal? So were JFK and FDR. Republicans didn't have anything else to run on so they worked on PR to make "liberal" seem like a bad thing. You have to admit, liberals don't have to add the word "compassionate" to their title like Bush did. If "conservative" is so great why the need for "compassionate"?

And you can't compare Bush and Kerrys Congressional records, Bush doesn't have one. In fact he was defeated in his attempt to be elected to Congress as the representative from Texas in 1978.

I have lived through the administrations of 14 presidents.
LBJ was bad. Nixon was worse. This administration has done more to strike down American ideals then any administrations in the past.

So compare that record to the last:

We went from Billions of dollars Surplus to Billions of Dollars deficit

From Peace to War

From respect of our allies to almost no allies.

From a leader in the United Nations to "Unilateral"

From credibility to skepticism in the view of the world.

Welcome to Bushnam”

“I don't need you to quantify what I consider disgraceful. Fine if he wants to pretend to throw his medals away when it is popular to do so, but he brings them out and touts them like they really mean something now.

Disgraceful.”

“Peace to war is an insult. Blaming President Bush for 9/11 is cowardly.”

“You'd know all about cowardly.

President Bush is a proven leader during war."
Miss Anne Thrope
07:58:08 PM


Bwaaaaaaahahahaa! Hahahaha! Good one.”

“Hopefully bacpac someday you will be close enough to find out who is and who isn't a coward.

Silver Star,Bronze Star w/Combat V, Purple Heart,2 Navy Commendation Medals w/Combat V,Two Navy Unit Commendations, Four Presidential Unit Citations, Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation w/Palm Fleet Marine Force Combat Operation Insignia, Combat Action Ribbon - Vietnam Service Medal, 3 Awards, Vietnam Campaign Medal,United Nations Service Medal National Defense Service Medal w/ 1 Star, Expert Rifle w/silver "E" , Expert Pistol. Coward that!

Bush Invaded Iraq and used 911 as an excuse. As a result the real villians of 911 are still on the loose.

I state what I say publicly with my real name, not hiding behind a nickname. So I would think twice about calling anyone cowardly.”

“I'd like to see how the military records of Bush v Kerry match up!



C'mon, let's have the pissing match and get it over with....”

“Hopefully bacpac someday you will be close enough to find out who is and who isn't a coward.


redhawk
10:59:19 PM
04/02/04

I consider this to be a personal threat. A clear violation of forum policy. I spent a little time in the Marine Corps myself. Making threating comments in an internet forum is such a cowardly act I can't believe a Marine would do such a thing.

I look forward to meeting you and providing you the opportunity to apologize in person.”

“Hopefully bacpac someday you will be close enough to find out who is and who isn't a coward.


redhawk
10:59:19 PM
04/02/04

I consider this to be a personal threat. A clear violation of forum policy. I spent a little time in the Marine Corps myself. Making threating comments in an internet forum is such a cowardly act I can't believe a Marine would do such a thing.

I look forward to meeting you and providing you the opportunity to apologize in person.”

“I guess you don't know what a threat is if you think thats one. I just find that mouths arn't as big when people are face ti face, speaking of cowards..

And I agree 100% about what a marine would and wouldn't say. Especially the remarks you made about the guy that got burned. No Marine would say THAT. You get on these forums and lay out pot shots and then when someone basicly says you're a coward you snivel about threats?

And a "Little Time" in the Marine Corp doesn't surprise me. Its easy to tell from your posts that you are not Marine Corp Material. You're not even girl scout material.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Jeez, don't ya just hate snivvelers?”

“PFFT!

I look forward to meeting you and providing you the opportunity to apologize in person."
Miss Anne Thrope
07:19:44 AM
04/03/04


Don't make me show everyone what a true coward you are, bacpac. You'd sooner eat your own liver than meet someone from this board in person, despite all your bluster and posturing. Wuss.”

“when you serve your nation in combat, serve honorably and courageously, i couldn't care less what the hell you do with your medals- with or without them you deserve respect.

just as pres. george h. w. bush deserves respect, so does kerry. i admire kerry for his service in combat, even if i may diagree with some things he did afterwards. who cares whether he threw his medals away 30 years ago? his choice, his medals. shall we analyze the misdeeds of all presidential candidates that happened 30 years ago?

it seems to me some republicans will do everything to discredit someone, even if they deserve credit for their service. pathetic. i'd be ticked off if democrats tried to devalue the elder bush's combat service to his nation. they were there, they faced horror, fear, and pain. actions speak louder than words. the sniping, nit-picking, and silly comments on this board, and by the likes of rush limbaugh (who did not serve his nation) is juvenile and disgraceful.”

“Exactly! Let's focus on his voting record in stead. That's where the real measure of the man can be found."
Nigal
and how do you find the voting record of someone who never served in congress?”

“"I consider this to be a personal threat. A clear violation of forum policy. I spent a little time in the Marine Corps myself. Making threating comments in an internet forum is such a cowardly act I can't believe a Marine would do such a thing. Ms Anne Bacpac Thorpe"

So you snip at people all the time, and then call someone a coward. And when they stand up to you you want to run and hide behind a webmaster?

Guess we can all see who the real coward is.

Go out and play with the kindergarten kids, maybe they will think you're someone.



"I look forward to meeting you and providing you the opportunity to apologize in person."

I don't think so. I don't think I could get past the stink!

Now you go back on ignore. You're not even worth the effort.”

“Can you smell the testosterone?”

“Smells like tuna with you in here.”

“Your nose tickles :-*”

“Stooping Low to Smear Kerry

By E. J. Dionne Jr. washingtonpost.com


"Have you no sense of decency, sir?"

It was the classic question posed by Joseph Welch to Sen. Joseph McCarthy 50 years ago during the Red-hunter's hearings investigating the Army for alleged communist influence. With his query, Welch, the Army's special counsel, began the undoing of McCarthy.

Unfortunately, the question needs to be asked again. It needs to be posed to shamelessly partisan Republicans who can't stand the fact that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are facing off against a Democrat who fought and was wounded in Vietnam. Cheney said in 1989 that he didn't go to Vietnam because "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." While Kerry risked his life, Bush got himself into the National Guard.

Funny, isn't it? When Bill Clinton was running against Republican war veterans in 1992 and 1996, the most important thing to GOP propagandists and politicians was that Clinton didn't fight in Vietnam. Now that Republican candidates who didn't fight in Vietnam face a Democrat who did -- and was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts while he was there -- the Republican machine wants to change the subject.

Thus the shameful display on the floor of the House of Representatives last week as one Republican after another declared that what mattered was not Kerry's service but that he decided afterward that the Vietnam War was a terrible mistake for our country.

The decorated combat veteran was transformed from a hero to "Hanoi John," in the phrase of Rep. Sam Johnson, a Texas Republican. Johnson deserves our gratitude for his seven years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. But his agenda last week had election-year politics stamped all over it. Johnson declared that in speaking out against the war, Kerry showed "his true colors, and they are not red, white and blue." Kerry, Johnson said, was engaged in "nothing short of aiding and abetting the enemy."

Rep. John Kline, a Minnesota Republican who served as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, argued that Kerry's service "does not excuse his joining ranks with Jane Fonda and others in speaking ill of our troops or their service, then or now." Thanks for your service, Mr. Kline, but that "then or now" part is demagogic: Yes, Kerry criticized what our troops were asked to do in Vietnam. But have you ever heard Kerry speak ill of our men and women under arms in Iraq? The Republican agenda is obvious: to distract attention from the contrast of Kerry having served in a war theater while Bush and Cheney stayed home.

It seems to be a habit. When Bush faces a Vietnam War hero in an election, a Vietnam veteran perfectly happy to trash his opponent always turns up. In the case of Ted Sampley, the same guy who did Bush's dirty work in going after Sen. John McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries is doing the job against Kerry this year. Sampley dared compare McCain, who spent five years as a Vietnam POW, with "the Manchurian Candidate." Now, Sampley says that Kerry "is not truthful and is not worthy of the support of U.S. veterans. . . . To us, he is 'Hanoi John.' " Is that where Sam Johnson got his line?

One person who is outraged by the attacks on Kerry is McCain. When I reached the Arizona Republican, I found him deeply troubled over the reopening of wounds from the Vietnam era, "the most divisive time since our Civil War." He called Sampley "one of the most despicable characters I've ever met." McCain said he hoped that in the midst of a war in Iraq, politicians "will confront the challenges facing us now, including the conflict we're presently engaged in, rather than refighting the one we were engaged in more than 30 years ago."

McCain recalled that he had worked with Kerry on "POW/MIA issues and the normalization of relations with Vietnam" and wanted to stand up for his war comrade because "you have to do what's right." Speaking of Kerry, McCain said: "He's my friend. He'll continue to be my friend. I know his service was honorable. If that hurts me politically or with my party, that's a very small price to pay."

Now that McCain has spoken, will Bush have the guts to endorse or condemn the attacks on Kerry's service? Or will he just sit by silently, hoping the assaults do their work while he evades responsibility? Once more, Welsh's words call out for an answer: "Have you no sense of decency, sir?"”

“I'll be damned.....
violin actually used a past thread with the 'fire' icon.
Will wonders never cease. ;-)”

“If you could follow the board, you'd realize that I rarely start a new thread.”

“"Once more, Welsh's words call out for an answer: "Have you no sense of decency, sir?"

I can answer that, Bush has no sense of decency.”

“LOL, the point is you used a thread with the 'fire' icon.
One of the very few times you have for your political threads.”

“Oh, please! Bush has no sense at all!”

“That too!”

“strat? Where's strat? still at the dollar store I guess.”

“McCain is the most honorable politician out there. I wish he were president now, instead of the "compassionate conservative" that we have now.”

“"Compassionate Conservative" is about as stupid a lie as "Installing Democracy".”

“My favorite Oxymorons (in no particular order):

Compassionate Conservatism
Military Intelligence
Military Music
Good Morning.

;)”