lets discuss kerry's military record

“Now the thread has deteriorated to oxymorons, I can contribute.

Safe sex
Marital bliss
Lite beer”

“Fox News
Republican Backpacker”

“>>>Funny, isn't it? When Bill Clinton was running against Republican war veterans in 1992 and 1996, the most important thing to GOP propagandists and politicians was that Clinton didn't fight in Vietnam.<<<

All credibility of this "story" flew right out the window with this scentence.”

“I believe they used 'draft dodger' and didn't pull any punches aboutit either...”

“This one was pretty typical: Washington Post, 1992”

“Let's see if I have this right. Clinton was not a draft dodger, but Bush is. Is that what you're saying?”

“How about BOTH?”

“Duh... I was helping to refresh DeoreDX's memory.”

“Well, not just Both.... How about ALL? LOL”

“Are you leading me to beleive that the ***MOST*** important thing to GOP propagandists and politicians was the fact that Bill Clinton did not goto Vietnam? Words have meanings, and as a supposed journalist this writer or his editor should be much more aware of this then you or I. This writer just proposed by saying "Most Important" that the single greatest reason for the GOP opposition of Bill Clinton is the fact that he did not serve in the viename War. So, either one has to beleive this guy lied in that scentence and has an agenda and is trying to put his own spin on the news and this isn't a news story and it just propaganda... or you have to be stupid enough to beleive that the republican party thought that the greatest reason not to vote for Clinton was he doged the draft. I prefer to read fact and news not made up propaganda like the crap from this guy or people like Drudge or Limbaugh.”

“no prob....reading your responses on this is like listening to a 13 yr old argue with his parents.

No...you don't have it right. No one here (yet) is saying that Clinton wasn't a draft dodger.

He most certainly was and he got raked over the coals for it, like he should have. Clinton admitted it and wrote about his convictions. He didn't try to lie and pretend he wasn't. I don't admire him for the dodging, but I can move past it since he was honest ( about that at least).

Now...back to your boy Bush and Cheney too. They are most certainly draft dodgers. Whay were their convictions? That rich kidss shouldn't go into harm's way. They may have been clean cut and smelled good, but they were draft dodgers nonetheless.

Doesn't it sicken you to see him in his little uniform and cap in those old pictures, pretending to be a soldier? While he partied hard and strutted around other less fortunate guys were dieing.”

“JO, it's not worth your breath, or portrayal of logic and reason. They just don't get it, and never will. You could catch GWB with his willy buried in a sheeps butt, and the repubs would spin it as "Bush Understands Farmers", and 33 1/3 of the country would believe/vehementally back the situation.”

“LOL BB”

“Okay... No Woolite jokes!”

“BB, that has to go in the TT quotes thread, ASAP.”

“Woolly Bully ! ! !

An aquaintance of mine joined the Air Force(sissy) to avoid the draft and decided to stay until retirement(welfare case).
His family got free medical, etc.

There are a million stories in the naked city.”

“Another day here without a response from strat.”

“There's a editorial in the Baltimore Sun today in which Linda Chavez criticizes Kerry for his telling the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about atrocities committed by US troops in Vietnam. She says those stories are now largely discredited.

Ahem!.....Meanwhile, on the front page is a story with pictures of US troops torturing Iraqi POWs.

What a dumbass.

Can somebody post a link for the story?”

“http://www.townhall.com/columnists/lindachavez/lc20040428.shtml


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.guard29apr29,0,1983671.story?coll=bal-home-headlines”

“I read Chavez's editorial.

She is and has been a right-wing attack (famale)dog.

She goes on to say,
"Under questioning from the committee Mr. Kerry referred to the democratically elected government of South Vietnam-our allies-as a "dictatorial regime"..."

HELLO!!!
They were a puppet government under which ever colonial power was manipulating the country at the moment.
And NOT democratically elected!!!

The woman is a big fat ugly liar.”

“Anybody elae see Frank Lautenberg on C-SPAN2 yesterday? MAN, he burned the chickenhawks a new a-hole.

Said Cheney was the 'Chickenhawk in Chief', LMAO”

“I read about it.....priceless!”

“The Federal Election Commission fined the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth $299,500 today: http://eqs.nictusa.com/eqsdocs/000058ED.pdf”

“Um, this has nothing to do with what their message was about Kerry.”

“What is it 600 and some odd days since John Was going to RELEASE his military records? And I still find it hilarious that this is in essence POLITICAL SPEECH that is being controlled......(camel nose under the tent)?)”

“I heard somewhere that Kerry served in Vietnam.”

“Yeah 120 days....and at the rate he was going...he as going to be one of the most decorated Soldiers in American History.”

“can i get me a huntin' license here?”

“He would have been better off to stay home and skip reservist duty.

You can't be called a war criminal if you dodge your responsibility to your country.”

“But you can award yourself a Purple Heart by shooting yourself.”

“You go ahead. I'll honor your memory.”

“There was one guy who took the ROTC option and then wrote a letter to the commander telling him he LOATHED the MILITARY. He ran against...1992 The youngest Torpeado Pilot in World War II (Distinguished Flying Cross)., 1996 a Decorated wounded (real wounds not the made up crap) Veteran of the Italian Campaign in World War II....both times I can't recall the push to get a person with military experience in....what side were the libbies on?”

“Huh?”

“Musta gotten into Mutt's stash...”

“LMAO!”

“Jeeze Phaed...there are things called Books...stuff called History. Check it out.

The following is Bill Clinton's December 1969 letter to his ROTC Director, Colonel Eugene Holmes. This text was taken verbatim from "SLICK WILLIE", by Floyd G. Brown. Not a word has been changed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.
First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.
Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.
I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine, After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans for the demonstrations Oct. 15 and Nov. 16.
Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."
From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway.)
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.
But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies because there were none but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.
At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self-regard and self confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on Sept. 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.
I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.
Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Col. Jones for me.
Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton

Colonel Eugene Holmes' September 1992 affidavit concerning Bill Clinton and the draft: ”

“Screw Clinton!

BTW, XL, my "HUH?" was in regard to your use/abuse of the language. Your point was about as clear as my dog's bathwater.”

“You go ahead. I'll honor your memory.”
Phaedrus
2:58:31 PM
12/13/06

That was pretty funny.”