Are you a victim, too?

“Or so you can call the gov't when you need something.”

“My small time library is open to 9 am to 9 pm with free internet computers. How many 'poor' people work 12 hours/day, every day?”

“Here's another scenario.

Lose your job with insurance. Take job that you trained for in big US city taking home $4k a month if you rush the job search.

1K a month in rent that you are contracted to.
$200 on bills
$100 on metro to work
Say you have a couple of credit cards with a few hundred dollars on, $100 a month.
where are we there - $2,600 left.
Food, damn that food bill, $200-$250 a month (you need to shop at more expensive store that are in the city)
Where are we, $2,350 left?

Cobra costs $500, I'll take it.

You remain in the city because it offers the best chance of a new job.








Here's another scenario -

You save up enough money so that if you lose your job, you don't have to take a job waiting tables and living off government assistance while you look for work.”

“I can think of 10 ways to access TT without paying an internet bill.”
ductape
1:49:30 PM
9/04/07

Don't play with the troll. It's nitpicking in hopes of inciting.


I'll do this once and then all the high and mighty judgemental mother#&%!$ers can go #&%!$ themselves, K?

I had no internet. I never had internet in an apt. I had a connection/deal at the internet cafe next to the restaurant I worked. I also gave up many non-essentials. #&%!$ you if you want a list.

#&%!$ happened. I #&%!$ed up. People #&%!$ up. For those that haven't #&%!$ed up - great. Congrats. Keep patting yourselves on the back.

Continue in your judgemental ways.

hyway - I was curious as to whether or not a child born with a condition would be given "pre-existing" status. IMHO, that sucks.”

“I had a connection/deal at the internet cafe next to the restaurant I worked.

Free access?”

“Or you can prepare yourself to do more than ONE job. Y2 I have seen people leave GREAT paying jobs and start a new life....and end up happier..granted they had to struggle but they did it.

I am not disagreeing that it can be tough. But a PERMENANT PLAN to hold people's hands for EVER? Does that mean when you lose your ONE job we should let you retire?

No really....how LONG do we have to let each person swing in the hammock of Government Largesse?

I have one friend I went to College with in the 1980's. When he was 16 his father died, his mother developed severe Mental problems. Granted he was in a small town but he got up at 5 am, cooked breakfast for his brothers and mother. Went to school, did the football practice and stocked shelves in the grocery store until MIDNIGHT EVERY FREAKING NIGHT.

SO here is the question, "How long do we HELP someone?" I have no problem with saying, "while you are in retraining (NO MORE THAN one year) we will help."

But I have a problem with the permenant victims.”

“bearmagnet - Nobody is judging you. Those are ductape's words. If anything, he's the one trolling.

It's very simple - somebody who asks for public assistance needs to drop the non-essentials. Plain and simple. Nothing non-compassionate about that. Nothing mean about that. It's a fact of life. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to giving cash to somebody going through a temporary "snag" who kept their non-essentials ... as an individual. The government on the other hand shouldn't be in the business of doing so.”

“bear, I have a family who is desperately trying to GET OUT of Public Housing. The husband quit a job as a cook to work in a job to build up the money to get out....(course they are fighting a system that is designed to prevent that). No if you are trying to get out then I back you the whole way...but that involves some sacrifice.

Want to know how many times I have had to identify "satelite dish" removal from Public Housing?”

“Of course they are judgmental - from they post on here they judge everyone's lives against their own. They can't see beyond their own experience.”

“BM - you had a tough decisions that many many people at all levels in America has had to make. Only in this country in the entire Western World, despite spending more on healthcare than any other country in the entire Western World, would you be penalized for it.”

“BM, before I went back to work full time we tried to set up a plan with blue cross that they told us was the best way to go. They gave us a group rate as a family which was reasonable and we signed up. They took our check, cashed it then sent us a letter explaining the coverage for 4 of the 5 members of our family. Of course, they couldn't insure my baby boy because of his pre-existing condition. They balked at the idea of canceling our new policy and refunding the money, but they finally saw reason and did so. Luckily we were overlapping our coverage with the old plan to be sure we stayed insured so we didn't loose our old coverage. Insurance companies do suck, and I have never seen any government involvement that did have enough loopholes to drive an ambulance thru. They always leave an out to protect the big corporations no matter who is in charge of congress.”

“BTW, Y2, maybe I just haven't been paying attention and they killed the program, but in your scenario above, what did that person spend their unemployment check on?
last edited: 9/04/07 1:02:07 PM”

“A. Anyone asking nickel & dime questions is being judgmental.

2. I was downsized and had a job as a waiter, then bartender. My unemployement was a percentage of my base pay as a bartender and the amount of time I was at my last job. Or, in laymen's terms, diddly squat. I think I got ~100/mo for ~3 months.

Although I should have qualified for SS disability, it took them a year to process my claim. At which time, while in remission, they asked me to go see one of their physicians.

I don't even want to waste the effort and try again for this round.”

“Restaurant job = no unemployment check”

“He took a lower paid job rather than remain on unemployment benefit Hyway.

The broader point I was tying to make is that not everyone without insurance is a person who doesn't want / can't be bothered to work. A large proportion of people end up without insurance due to circumstances.

My SO went without insurance for several months because she was laid off from a great gig at one of the biggest companies in America. (whole department up to board level was let go). It's only the fact that she got a significant sevrance package that ensured this wasn't a problem, and even then she had to go for several months without coverage until her new plan kicked in.”

“y2 - Why do you always attack the person you're debating instead of debating circumstances?”

“LOL
Y2, like most libbies, lacks the capacity to see his own judgment in action.”

“This is a debate similar to explaining algebra. If someone can't grasp the concept that subtracting the same thing from both sides of an equation leaves the equation still true, then they will never be able to understand anything else you teach them about algebra.

So when trying to tell someone that you believe government spending on welfare should be toward people actively trying to remove themselves from the list of people who need it and they counter with "what about the people who aren't trying to better themselves" we are left with a gap in understanding that can't be bridged no matter how much algebra we use.”

“Y'all have been judged, now shut the #&%!$ up.

You might as well be pleading with a brick.”

“All they know are the insurance company talking points.”

“All they know are the democrat talking points.”

“"All they know are the insurance company talking points."

Yes indeed, like good little sheep ready for a fleecing.”

“All they know are the democrat talking points.

Yes indeed, like good little sheep ready for a fleecing.”

“I think insurance companies suck, but I guarantee you that the United States of America political establishment would make mincemeat out of any plan to provide universal health care. You think the government misspends military dollars. Just wait what will happen when the greedy SOB's get a chance to stick their hands in a brand new money pot.”

“What I would say to that Hyway, is that beyond all this talk of poor and not trying, healthcare should be a basic provision, a right if you like, even though it's not one in the constitution.

I think it's appalling that America spends more than any other nation on healthcare, much more, and it's growing, while 42 million have no coverage. The foolish part is that the state ends up paying for people anyway as then end up in the emergency room with no insurance.

Yes insurance companies suck - but I don't think we should just be shrugging and allowing it to continue because politicians get a bunch of money from big insurance. Only under pressure will things change.

This pressure will only come when the risk of losing an election becomes greater than the cost of losing the money from big insurance.
last edited: 9/04/07 1:36:29 PM”

“Let's hear it for the grand job insurance companies did on the Gulf Coast ----

For Profit Medicine is cruel.  Capitalism runs into serious problems when it becomes a matter of Either you pay or your children die.”

“Y2, you must not watch how things really work. It will be like social security. "Oh wait, you have a good paying job, you aren't eligible for free medical coverage. Or that it will be on a graduated scale and if you work hard you pay more to be covered. Not to mention that any doctor worth his salt wouldn't work for what the government would pay and we'd all be getting worse care.”

“Fear mongering will get ya nowhere, HyWay.”

“I think healthcare will ALWAYS be imperfect. It is everywhere else in the world - but I think we can do better than we do now.
Just because it will always be flawed doesn't mean we should ever stop striving to improve it - it's an ongoing process.”

“That socialized medicine is working so well in the UK, LOL.”

“No way!  This is America!  and anyone saying we're imperfect is a traitor.”

“Wait, I thought it was George Bush and his government that trashed the gulf coast. But now its private insurance companies that did it. maybe we should get Space Aliens to come down and run our country.”

“Bush made that hurricane hit New Orleans, don't ya know, LOL.”

“He was lobbied by insurance companies to do it, too.”

“Silly neo-cons, I sent that hurricane with my voodoo.”

“OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...that mean Bush! LOL”

“You doing commercials for State Farm, now?”

“Silly tiltypoo.”

“It is actually SS. My mother received fantastic care there for several years, right up to the end. (She was terminal when diagnosed btw). She also received a lot of care in the home near the end, with three nurse home visits and doctor visits every other day near then end.

My father now receives good primary care and is generally healthy.

What you don't understand is that healthcare in the UK, having NO experience of the country at all, will always be a political football, you'll always see negative stories, but generally things have improved enormously over the past few years. this is in line with increased investment. The NHS was severely under funded during the 80s and 90s which caused long waiting lists and a shortage of beds.

It's not perfect, but it's not as bad as you think if you cherry pick a few negative stories from what is a particularly agressive press in the UK.”

“Why aren't you in it if it's so great, Y2?”

“I have good healthcare here SS. You seem to miss the point entirely.

I'll say this slowly, know you have problems grasping this.

"This is not about me."

I'll try to explain the concept to you as you've always struggled to see beyond your own experience. (Big medical insurance paid my bill - all big health insurance good/Home insurance screwed me - all home insurance people bad).

You're working on a boat. You are doing your job well and there's no problem, but you see a what you perceive to be amajor flaw in the design of the boat that could cause major issues once it is in the water.

Do you say nothing and think of it as someone else's problem - or do you try to do something about it so people don't die?

(Having said that my circumstances could change and it could be about me in the future) - I try to plan, but you never know what might happen.
last edited: 9/04/07 2:13:12 PM”

“
I'll say this slowly, know you have problems grasping this. -y2

“y2 - Why do you always attack the person you're debating instead of debating circumstances?”
Sarge
4:15:42 PM
9/04/07”

“Stove - you have Nimble on ignore but not y2???????? I've never seen him debate without making it about personal attacks. He's got nothing to contribute except childish playground insults.”

“Y2 is so pompous I have to give him a little hell.
His idea of debate is telling someone to suck treebeard's d1ck.
So he isn't worth taking seriously, LOL.”

“You have people on your ignore list SS? I think the only person on my list is Saleboard.”

“That makes me feel a little better than I'm not imagining things. Sometimes I wonder. These guys like MarkO break me down sometimes and make me question my perspective of reality. Thanks for setting me straight StoveStomper.”

“Mostly trolls, Nigal, but a couple of TTers that have been personally nasty to me.

Sarge, mArKo is 'special'. ;-)”

“ignore this user”

“How many jobs does XL not work at? Fire inspector, ambulance driver/dispatcher, public housing satellite dish removal supervisor. How does he find 18 hours a day to post here?”